If you want to see Islam humiliated

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Just watch my video about how 2.5 million Jews smashed the f-k out of Allah's 250 million brave warriors in just 6 days

[Secularbeliever]

That was the IDF and State of Israel of which you usually put down.

[Zelhar]

I want to see Islam destroyed.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

That was the IDF and State of Israel of which you usually put down.

Do you seriously think that it was the IDF (which then had a drunk sadistic narcissist named Rabin as a Chief of General Staff) who destroyed entire Arab armies? Wow. You must be really blind.

[Secularbeliever]

Do you seriously think that it was the IDF (which then had a drunk sadistic narcissist named Rabin as a Chief of General Staff) who destroyed entire Arab armies? Wow. You must be really blind.

Educate me, who was it?  Did the IAF not take out the Egyptian Air Force at the start? Were the soldiers advancing through Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem, Golan, Gaza, and Sinai not IDF?

[muman613]

Educate me, who was it?  Did the IAF not take out the Egyptian Air Force at the start? Were the soldiers advancing through Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem, Golan, Gaza, and Sinai not IDF?

The hand of Hashem himself allowed the idf to win. There is no other explanation ...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Educate me, who was it?  Did the IAF not take out the Egyptian Air Force at the start? Were the soldiers advancing through Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem, Golan, Gaza, and Sinai not IDF?

Yes, I am also interested to hear how Ron responds to this.   Perhaps the IDF back then wasn't as emasculated and politicized as it is today.   That to me would seem the explanation for how it pole-axed the arab losers.

[Secularbeliever]

The hand of Hashem himself allowed the idf to win. There is no other explanation ...

Fair enough but you can say that about anything a person accomplishes.

[muman613]

Fair enough but you can say that about anything a person accomplishes.

I am not speaking for Ron because I do not know what he is thinking, but...

I think that the IDF today is not nearly as 'righteous' as the IDF of 40 years ago... But no matter what the victory in 1967 was miraculous. There is no way that the hand of Hashem was not involved in that victory. The Torah teaches, in many places, that the victories which Israel achieves are not due to the great merit of Israel, not from the might of their hands, but from the goodness of Hashem, and his promise to our forefathers that he would watch out for us.

I am comforted to know that Israel possesses some of the greatest wisdom, knowledge, and technology in the art of warfare. If only we can overcome this fear of the 'public opinion' of the world and place our trust in Hashem then we will be unbeatable. So many times, on a personal level, I have faced down opponents and defeated them when I place my trust in Hashem. I am always grateful to the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob for the livelihood which he has granted me and my family.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Do we need to have a fight over this too?

Yes, the IDF physically defeated the Arabs in 1968.
Yes, it was Hashem that did it and not really the IDF.
No, the state of Israel and most of her citizens are not righteous.
No, the state of Israel should not be destroyed.

Sigh.

[Secularbeliever]

Do we need to have a fight over this too?

Yes, the IDF physically defeated the Arabs in 1968.
Yes, it was Hashem that did it and not really the IDF.
No, the state of Israel and most of her citizens are not righteous.
No, the state of Israel should not be destroyed.

Sigh.

If the IDF gets no credit because G-d is responsible then what do people ever get credit for?  The IDF trained the soldiers, devised the strategy and executed  it.  It strikes me as ridiculous to say they deserve no credit for that victory.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

G-D fighting our wars does NOT mean that we sit back and do nothing. For example King David (Alawv Hashalom) was a rightious King who was told by G-D that He would have great victories. And he did, BUT the Gemarah tells us that when he went to Battle he trained his men, and choose his best swords. Was this a deficiency of his faith and trust of G-D? Absolutely NOT. Remember one thing. We are required to do our parts. We can't and should not rely on miracles. It is even assur to do soo. (in most situations, unless told by G-D through a prophet under specific instruction). The best way the world works is through natural means. Because what we call "nature" is/are laws of G-D and G-D definitely works through nature (that is also the Hiddush of Purim).

[muman613]

G-D fighting our wars does NOT mean that we sit back and do nothing. For example King David (Alawv Hashalom) was a rightious King who was told by G-D that He would have great victories. And he did, BUT the Gemarah tells us that when he went to Battle he trained his men, and choose his best swords. Was this a deficiency of his faith and trust of G-D? Absolutely NOT. Remember one thing. We are required to do our parts. We can't and should not rely on miracles. It is even assur to do soo. (in most situations, unless told by G-D through a prophet under specific instruction). The best way the world works is through natural means. Because what we call "nature" is/are laws of G-D and G-D definitely works through nature (that is also the Hiddush of Purim).

Nobody is saying we should rely on miracles here. But we must realize that we have fallen, pick the Jewish people back up, and regain our strength. I know that Israel possesses the strongest and best equipped army in the region. But even with the best equipment we can be defeated without the proper amount of emunah in Hashem.

And certainly if the IDF of today is not righteous it would be foolish to think that we will merit winning the next big war. Regardless of the amount of preparation and the superior weaponry, a Jewish army which is wicked will not succeed.

My prayers are that the IDF mends its ways, allows its religious soldiers to observe the commandments as their Rabbis teach them, and that it no longer illegally remove Jewish residents of the land from their homes...

[TruthSpreader]

The day 5 and a half million Jews defeat a billion and a half Muslims would be amazing. Talk about a David and Goliath situation.  Not realistic but it's a good dream.

[muman613]

The day 5 and a half million Jews defeat a billion and a half Muslims would be amazing. Talk about a David and Goliath situation.  Not realistic but it's a good dream.

Do not mock Hashem by limiting his ability to provide the Jewish people victory. While it may seem fantastical to us today, the Torah teaches us that such miraculous victories are possible.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Show me where Hot Spot mocked G-d.

[muman613]

Show me where Hot Spot mocked G-d.

The day 5 and a half million Jews defeat a billion and a half Muslims would be amazing. Talk about a David and Goliath situation. Not realistic but it's a good dream.

It is just this kind of thinking which caused Sarahs life to be shortened. When she laughed at the thought that she would have Yitzak at the age of 99 she lost several years of her life. Just because it seems as if it is not naturally possible is no reason to limit Hashem by saying it is 'not realistic' or a 'good dream'. If it is not mocking it is surely limiting...

http://www.shlomokluger.com/Kluger-Books/Imrei-Shefer/Chayei-Sarah.html

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

That's a stretch if I've ever seen one, Muman. Of course it's not realistic. No miraculous event is--hence why they are called "miracles".

I think you know that we are taught not to rely on miracles or to demand them.... don't you?

[muman613]

That's a stretch if I've ever seen one, Muman. Of course it's not realistic. No miraculous event is--hence why they are called "miracles".

I think you know that we are taught not to rely on miracles or to demand them.... don't you?

Certainly.... But my point is that you are placing a limitation on Hashem, which should not be done. I am not suggesting that we should rely on miracles. But if you look into the story which we recently read, Chayai Sarah, you can see that when we doubt whether Hashem is capable of doing something, we should believe it till we cannot believe it any longer.

The entire reason Sarah was punished for her laughing was because she did not believe that it was possible at her age to have a son, and thus she thought it ridiculous that she would have Yitzak. And there is another belief of Judaism that we should never give up belief even when the knife is up against our throat... Is this relying on a miracle? No, it is remembering basic concepts of Jewish faith and trust in Hashem...

http://www.torah.org/learning/rabbiwein/5763/devarim.html

One of the most essential traits for leadership of any kind and most certainly for leadership in Jewish life is cultivating a “good eye.” Our Rabbis in Pirkei Avot emphasize that having a “good eye” is a major goal and accomplishment in life. A “good eye” allows one to be optimistic and hopeful, even though the realities of life are often discouraging and negative. One of the tests of faith in Judaism is the ability to be optimistic even in the face of overwhelming difficulties. Again, the Rabbis of the Talmud taught us “Even if there be a sharp knife held at your throat do not despair completely.” Despair, merciless criticism, pessimism, bitterness, cynicism - none of these traits and attitudes is acceptable Jewish behavior, and certainly not in those who occupy public leadership roles. The Torah demands that we always look at life and people realistically. We are not allowed to willfully fool ourselves as to the negative dangers that exist around us. All of that being said, the Torah then asks us to nevertheless be optimistic, hopeful, and to see life’s realities and circumstances through the prism of a “good eye.”

http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/peninim/archives/miketz61.htm

To have bitachon in Hashem is a primary component of Jewish theology. One must never give up hope for salvation. Chazal say, "Even if a sharp knife is resting on one's throat, he should not despair, he should not give up hope." For some people, every waking moment in the day is a lesson in emunah, belief, and bitachon, trust in the Almighty. They persevere amidst pain and anguish, with no prospects for a natural cure; never does their trust in Hashem wane, never does it falter. Everyone has his own "pekel," package, of tzaros, troubles and misfortunes. For some, it is health related, for others, it could be a situation in chinuch ha'banim, raising children - educational, emotional, social, or shidduchim, marriage. Each person is doled out his "pekel" package, in accordance with his ability to manage with the problem.

PS: What I am basically saying is that the IDF needs to get back to basic Jewish education and learn to be the army of the Jewish state. We could be so much more if we had more faith and trust in Hashem.

[muman613]

http://theshmuz.com/blog/parshas-bechokosai-the-power-of-a-tzibbur/

“If you go in my ways and follow my statutes…Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and they will fall from your sword.” Vayikra 26:8

The Torah is very explicit that if the Jewish nation follows the ways of HASHEM, we will enjoy peace, prosperity, and success in all of our endeavors.
We will plant and harvest abundant crops, our borders will be secure, – life will be good. Included in this is a guarantee that in battle with our enemies we will be astonishingly successful; small numbers of our weakest soldiers will chase down and annihilate far larger groups of the enemy.

When describing this phenomenon, the Torah is very specific: five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand. Rashi is troubled by the proportions. If five will chase a hundred, then the ratio is 1:20. By that proportion, a hundred should chase 2,000. Yet the Torah tells us that 100 will chase 10,000, a ratio that is five times greater than what it should be. Why would the group of a hundred be five times more effective than the group of five?

Rashi explains: “There is no comparison between a few keeping the Torah to a multitude keeping the Torah.”

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I shall repeat my initial question: who here exactly was putting a limitation on G-d? Show me.

[muman613]

I shall repeat my initial question: who here exactly was putting a limitation on G-d? Show me.

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,58561.msg526816.html#msg526816

One with a real faith would say, "Although it seems improbroble, it could happen"...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

You do understand the definition of "realistic", right?

"Realistic" means what can be expected to happen under a normal situation, under the laws of nature. The 1967 victory of Israel over the Arabs was about as unrealistic as you can get. That is how we know it's a miracle. Do you really think the IDF of that era, which numbered something like 20,000 trained front-line soldiers tops, truly defeated five combined Arab nations with the most modern Soviet equipment, training, and advisors by its own might?

We are not allowed to expect miracles, rely on them, or demand them. That is central to Judaism, Noahidism, and Christianity. We can ask for them humbly while simultaneously working as hard as we can but if we expect or demand them to happen, that is really mocking G-d. So to that end I'll not just agree with Hot Spot, but state that without G-d's intervention, 5 million Jews defeating 2 billion Muslims isn't just unrealistic, but impossible.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Of course it's not realistic. No miraculous event is--hence why they are called "miracles".

 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Good to see some people understood what Hot Spot and I were getting at.