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The "Evolution" of the Olive

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edu:
Here is a link to a recent audio lecture that Rabbi Mordechai Willig made on the subject of the olive http://www.yutorah.com/lectures/lecture.cfm/766468/Rabbi_Mordechai_I_Willig/Evolution_&_Change_in_Halacha:_Measurements_(Part_2)_&_Kezayis# The lecture is entitled "Evolution and Change in Halacha: Measurements (part 2) and Kezayis

I also found a source which I think is relevant to the subject.
I will quote it now in Hebrew and I will try bli neder to explain it's meaning and possible implication at another time.
תלמוד ירושלמי מסכת יומא פרק ב דף לט טור ג /ה"א

רבי חמא בר עוקבה בשם רבי יהושע בן לוי אין קמיצה פחות משני זתים ואין הקטרה פחותה מכזית רבי יצחק בי רבי אלעזר שאל מעתה כהן שאין ידו מחזקת כשני זיתים פסול מן העבודה

edu:
Now to explain and translate the Hebrew source I previously quoted
It says in the Talmud Yerushalmi:

--- Quote ---Rabbi Chama the son of Ukva said in the name of Rabbi Yehoshua son of Levi, A Kemitza is not less than 2 olives and there is no burning (on the altar) less than an olive's worth. Rabbbi Yitzchak the son of Rabbi Eliezer, queried, now (in light of this information) it would seem that a Cohain whose hand can not contain 2 olives worth (of dough, of bread, or wafers) is unfit for the Temple service
--- End quote ---
Now the Chazon Ish, who is an advocate of the position that the olive of the Talmud is much larger than the olives of today (according to the appendix of זמני ההלכה - למעשה) contended that an olive was either
50cc (cubic centimeters) or 33cc depending (on what ratio should one make between the olive and the egg).
Thus according to the Chazon Ish, the Kemitza of a typical Cohain (descendant of Aharon/Aaron) would contain at least 66cc or 100cc of dough, bread or wafers. 66cc is 2.2317254888874003 ounces and 100cc is 3.3814022558900003 ounces.
What is a Kemitza? According to most Rabbis, if you take the three middle fingers, of the 5 fingers of your right hand and join them one next to the other and have them touch the (lower part of the) palm of your hand, then the amount of dough, bread, or wafers that one can insert into that space is a Kemitza. Rambam's view is that you should also add your little finger (or pinky) to the other 3 fingers mentioned previously, which makes the space of the Kemitza slightly larger.

muman613:

--- Quote from: Tag-MahirTzedek on December 05, 2011, 09:44:49 AM --- I think its just the climate. And your correct the Rishonim in Spain did have olives, that is why they say something like 16 olives is an egg. Or better yett most don't even mention this since it was apparent what an olive is and what size it is. If anything they had the olives in front of them on the table and everyone knew exactly what they needed and not have to go through all the detailed discussions and guesses of the Askenasim.

--- End quote ---

Tag, I don't want to have an issue but I have a question.... Why are you so antagonistic against Ashkenazim? Several times I have noticed subtle digs at European Jewry.... Am I just totally off the mark?

Tag-MehirTzedek:

--- Quote from: muman613 on December 07, 2011, 01:46:34 AM ---Tag, I don't want to have an issue but I have a question.... Why are you so antagonistic against Ashkenazim? Several times I have noticed subtle digs at European Jewry.... Am I just totally off the mark?



--- End quote ---

 I'm not. I just said that the Askenasim (meaning Jews living in Europe) were not familiar with olives. Soo when this question came up many of them didn't say the correct measurements since they did not see olives that's all. If anything this is defending them and stating that they made human error in this subject since they did not have olives grow in Europe.

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