Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
The "Evolution" of the Olive
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
Btw, in this thread http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,28614.25.html I wrote up a summary of a keziath shiur by Rabbi Bar Chaim. Is this the same shiur? I think he may have put a few similar ones on the website, I don't remember.
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on December 04, 2011, 07:00:19 PM ---The rishonim in Europe did not have olives. Tosafot never saw an olive in person. I think Babylonians would have seen olives, no? Not just from travel to and from Eretz Yisrael, but they were probably also grown in Babylon... why wouldn't they be? I thought they were widely available throughout the middle east.
--- End quote ---
Babylonians did not have olives, that is why those in Israel made fun of the babylonians who didn't even have olive oil. I think that is also why they started to compare olives to eggs and other things (but later on those comparing things to eggs were using European large eggs and not the eggs of the middle east and of Bavel. Thus inflating the size of olives going higher and higher in most cases because they didn't have nor see things like olives!
Tag-MehirTzedek:
" The second opinion is that of the Rambam, who indicates that a kezayit equals around a third of a kebeitza (see Hilkhot Eruvin 1:9), as understood by several Acharonim (Magen Avraham 486:1, Peri Chadash)."
The second sentence is important. If you check closely (read the essay I posted) the Rambam is mentioned, and see in the context where he mentions olives and eggs. also check which and what size egg he was speaking about (when you read "eggs" you think about the European brand of eggs and not the ones in the middle east). We see in the galut all of these confusions started. In Israel (and the Mediterranean in this case) people knew exactly what "normal sized" olives were, how they looked like, and what the obligations were, etc.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Tag-MahirTzedek on December 04, 2011, 07:40:59 PM ---" The second opinion is that of the Rambam, who indicates that a kezayit equals around a third of a kebeitza (see Hilkhot Eruvin 1:9), as understood by several Acharonim (Magen Avraham 486:1, Peri Chadash)."
The second sentence is important. If you check closely (read the essay I posted) the Rambam is mentioned, and see in the context where he mentions olives and eggs. also check which and what size egg he was speaking about (when you read "eggs" you think about the European brand of eggs and not the ones in the middle east). We see in the galut all of these confusions started. In Israel (and the Mediterranean in this case) people knew exactly what "normal sized" olives were, how they looked like, and what the obligations were, etc.
--- End quote ---
Interesting. I did not know that about the babylonians. The rishonim in spain did see olives so I'm surprised they wouldn't grow any in iraq/iran
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on December 04, 2011, 08:01:10 PM ---Interesting. I did not know that about the babylonians. The rishonim in spain did see olives so I'm surprised they wouldn't grow any in iraq/iran
--- End quote ---
I think its just the climate. And your correct the Rishonim in Spain did have olives, that is why they say something like 16 olives is an egg. Or better yett most don't even mention this since it was apparent what an olive is and what size it is. If anything they had the olives in front of them on the table and everyone knew exactly what they needed and not have to go through all the detailed discussions and guesses of the Askenasim.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version