Author Topic: Afterlife  (Read 8731 times)

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Offline Igor Schwarzman

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Afterlife
« on: December 06, 2011, 07:30:40 AM »
I don't really know what afterlife is in Judaism. All I know so far is that after death the soul rests in Sheol until the Messiah comes, and then the dead resurrect, I am correct?

But I want to know what happens with the righteous and the wicked. Do the righteous come to Heaven and the wicked to Hell like it's in Christianity?

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2011, 10:56:54 AM »
 According to Rambam, their is the resurrection of the (righteous) dead, a long life in this world of body + soul and then natural death and the life of the "world to come". In the world to come their is only soul and the blissful state of the soul without the body since the body will not be needed at the time.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2011, 12:40:54 PM »
I don't really know what afterlife is in Judaism. All I know so far is that after death the soul rests in Sheol until the Messiah comes, and then the dead resurrect, I am correct?

But I want to know what happens with the righteous and the wicked. Do the righteous come to Heaven and the wicked to Hell like it's in Christianity?

I have explained this a number of times here but since you are new you have not read what was written.

Basically Judaism doesn't believe that most wicked Jews go to hell, a Jew most likely will end up in Gan Eden. There is a caveat that every sin which a Jew does MUST be paid for. The concept of Middah Keneged Middah means Measure for Measure and while the non-Jews have taken this to mean literally 'An Eye for an Eye' it actually means that for every thing we do we must be held responsible. This is the basis of Rambams concept {One of the 13 principles} that we believe in 'Reward and Punishment'.

We don't call it hell and for most people it is not eternal as in Christian belief. For most normal Jewish sinners the maximum time in Gehinnom is 11 months. It is a purgatory in order to pay for our wrongdoing in this world. It is believed that the extremely wicked are capable of receiving an eternity in Gehinnom but we hope that there are not many absolute Rashas/Wicked ones.

As for the non-Jew we believe that all those humans who keep the seven Noachide laws are considered Righteous Gentiles and that they too have the promise of Gan Eden/Heaven. Since they are judged by a lesser covenant known as the Noachide commandments {7 laws} and Jews are held to the Taryag Mitzvot {613 Commands} the Jew must be more careful in order to not transgress these laws.

If you are interested in more information I can provide links and other information from Jewish sites...

http://www.torah.org/qanda/seequanda.php?id=680
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What is Gehinnom?

Gehinnom is the name given to Hell in the Rabbinic literature. The name was borrowed from that of a real valley (see Joshua 15:2,8 and 18:16; 2 Kings 23:10; 2 Chron.28:3 and 33:6; Jeremiah 7:31-32 and 19:2,6; Nehemiah 11:30) where burnings took place. See also Isaiah 30:33; Jeremiah 19:11-13; Job 17:6. Punishment in Gehinnom lasts only for up to 12 months, except for certain major sinners. Isaiah 66:24 must be referring to it when he speaks of the fire that is not extinguished.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1594422/jewish/What-Is-the-Jewish-Belief-in-Hell.htm
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Dear Rabbi,

Do Jews believe in Hell? I am not planning any trips there or anything, but I have heard conflicting reports about its existence.

Answer:

We do believe in a type of Hell, but not the one found in cartoons and joke books. Hell is not a punishment in the conventional sense; it is, in fact, the expression of a great kindness.

The Jewish mystics described a spiritual place called “Gehinnom.” This is usually translated as “Hell,” but a better translation would be “the Supernal Washing Machine.” Because that’s exactly how it works. The way our soul is cleansed in Gehinnom is similar to the way our clothes are cleansed in a washing machine.
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http://www.judaism.org/index.php?p=994

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Hell and Its Purpose
Do we as Jews believe in Hell? If so what would someone do to deserve a place in hell?

Hell, yes.

Well, sort of…

...you see, it’s nothing like the images we probably have of it, fashioned from TV evangelists and B horror movies. There’s no devil, and perhaps even no recognizable physical existence.

Rather, it is a place (called “Gehinnom” in Hebrew) where the soul is exposed to the reality of everything that it did in this world, while simultaneously being shown the potential that it possessed to achieve. All the facts are laid on the table in a manner which is irrefutable and undeniable. The principal punishment of Gehinnom is the inescapable pain of regret for wasting or even abusing one’s potential and thus not achieving what one could have achieved.

Gehinnom is a cleansing process for the soul to enable it to eventually enter the World To Come. Some souls are able to enter the World To Come without experiencing Gehinnom, either because of their lofty achievements in this world or because they already experienced all their suffering there (or a combination of both). For those who have to go to Gehinnom, the cleansing process is usually completed in eleven or twelve months. On rare occasion, for people who did terrible evil in their lifetimes, causing many to suffer, Gehinnom can take much longer. For example, the Talmud states that Titus Andronicus, the Roman general who destroyed Jerusalem and the second Temple in 70 ACE, is still inGehinnom .

Only G-d, with His infinite knowledge and wisdom, can judge who does or does not deserve Gehinnom and how long their stay there must last. But it is obvious, from our human perspective, that by studying and fulfilling the Torah as much as we can, we move ourselves away from the judgment of Gehinnom.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline edu

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2011, 02:52:14 AM »
There are 2 types of reward after death for the righteous Jew or righteous Gentile.
1 The Spiritual resting place of the soul - called Gan {Garden} Eden, where the soul experiences spiritual delights in accordance to the merit it earned directly or indirectly.
2 According to Rabbis, such as Rabbi Ovadia of Bartenura, [and I believe this is the majority viewpoint], some time in the future, the soul will be reunited with an improved body and the soul and body will continue to exist eternally in a world that is much more satisfying than it is today.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2011, 10:41:01 AM »
There are 2 types of reward after death for the righteous Jew or righteous Gentile.
1 The Spiritual resting place of the soul - called Gan {Garden} Eden, where the soul experiences spiritual delights in accordance to the merit it earned directly or indirectly.
2 According to Rabbis, such as Rabbi Ovadia of Bartenura, [and I believe this is the majority viewpoint], some time in the future, the soul will be reunited with an improved body and the soul and body will continue to exist eternally in a world that is much more satisfying than it is today.

 According to Rambam, part 2 is not eternal, BUT one has a loong life, dies and then has only soul because body would not be needed any longer.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Igor Schwarzman

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2011, 12:58:28 PM »
Many thanks for your answers!

So Judaism has a kind of "paradise" and "hell". But I've still a few questions:

- Does someone directly come to Gehinnom after death to be purified until the Messiah comes? I heard every human being comes to Sheol after death until this day.

- Gehinnom is a place of spiritual purification and psychological punishment (because of being ashamed about the own wicked deeds) but not of physical punishment, like hellfire in Christianity, did I got this right?

- You wrote that for most people, Gehinnom takes only 12 months, but that there are also very few wicked people who will eternally remain there. Are there specific uncleanable sins? Would Hitler be such a person?

Offline muman613

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2011, 04:25:38 PM »
Many thanks for your answers!

So Judaism has a kind of "paradise" and "hell". But I've still a few questions:

- Does someone directly come to Gehinnom after death to be purified until the Messiah comes? I heard every human being comes to Sheol after death until this day.

- Gehinnom is a place of spiritual purification and psychological punishment (because of being ashamed about the own wicked deeds) but not of physical punishment, like hellfire in Christianity, did I got this right?

- You wrote that for most people, Gehinnom takes only 12 months, but that there are also very few wicked people who will eternally remain there. Are there specific uncleanable sins? Would Hitler be such a person?

These questions are difficult to answer but I will take a shot at answering them:

1) I believe that there is a difference between Gan Eden/Paradise and the Messianic age and the Resurrection of the Dead. Various sages have different understandings of the nature of these. But Gehinnom is only a short period of time for most average Jews. Gan Eden is not the Messianic era, it is a place where the disembodied spirit exists in spiritual closeness to G-d.

2) No, Gehinnom is primarily meant for spiritual purity but I have heard it said that it is not pleasant and it is very painful. While this cannot be physical pain because after death we have no body, but it is a pain which we cannot even fathom in this world. No doubt it is not a nice experience thus it is a punishment for our transgressions.

3) Yes, Hitler is a prime example of a person for whom Gehinnom would be everlasting. For a Jew there are three very serious sins, though I am not sure if they are 'unpardonable' and these are 1) Idol Worship, 2) Murder, 3) Sexual immorality. It is better for a Jew to die than commit these three transgressions.



http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/135,164/Does-Judaism-believe-in-Heaven-and-Hell.html
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Judaism does have a concept of reward and punishment in the afterlife. However, since words we use bring to mind certain images, particularly “Heaven” and “Hell,” it is better to use the Jewish terminology which comes without the baggage.

When someone dies, the disembodied soul leaves this sensory world and enters “Gan Eden,” the spiritual Garden of Eden (a.k.a. “Heaven”). In the Garden of Eden, the soul enjoys the “rays of the Divine Presence,” a purely spiritual enjoyment dependent on the Torah learning and good deeds done while in a body. Every year on the yahrtzeit, the day of passing, the soul ascends to another level closer to G-d. This gives it tremendous pleasure.

Before entering the Garden of Eden, though, a soul must be in a state of spiritual excellence, for it cannot enjoy the Divine Presence to the fullest degree with the pleasures and coarseness of our physical world still engraved on it. These would give the soul poor “reception” of divine radiance, and must be removed.

If a person sinned in this lifetime, as most of us do, then, to continue the radio analogy, we have serious interference. In order to restore the level of purity the soul had possessed before entering the physical world, it must undergo a degree of refinement commensurate to the degree which the body may have indulged itself. This means there is quite a bit of cleaning to be done. This cleaning process hurts, but is a spiritual and mental process designed not for retribution, but to allow one to truly enjoy his/her reward in Gan Eden.

This cleaning process is called “Gehinom,” or, in the vernacular, “Hell.”

See also : http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/kid/11611/jewish/Gan-Eden.htm
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Igor Schwarzman

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2011, 11:11:50 AM »
Thank you again for answering. Also thank you for the links. They are very interesting. Now I know more.

But this is still unclear for me:

- Gehinnom is a place for spiritual punishment. But why does Isaiah 66:24 then mention a \\\"fire that is not extinguished\\\"? Is this meant to be metaphoric, that the \\\"fire\\\" symbolizes the spiritual pain, or something physical?

- Is there a difference between treatment of Jews and Goyim in afterlife?

- What is with Sheol? Before I heard about Gehinnom, the Messianic Era, and Gan Eden, I mostly heard about Sheol for afterlife. What is it actual?


Offline muman613

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2011, 04:12:24 PM »
Thank you again for answering. Also thank you for the links. They are very interesting. Now I know more.

But this is still unclear for me:

- Gehinnom is a place for spiritual punishment. But why does Isaiah 66:24 then mention a \\\"fire that is not extinguished\\\"? Is this meant to be metaphoric, that the \\\"fire\\\" symbolizes the spiritual pain, or something physical?

- Is there a difference between treatment of Jews and Goyim in afterlife?

- What is with Sheol? Before I heard about Gehinnom, the Messianic Era, and Gan Eden, I mostly heard about Sheol for afterlife. What is it actual?



Basically Sheol is the lowest part of Gehinnom. It is a belief that there are seven levels of Gehinnom...

http://www.jewishmag.com/8mag/worlds/worlds1.htm

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Subterranean Worlds

Over and above the many instances of worlds in outer space noted in the Talmud, Zohar and elsewhere, there is, even more surprisingly, abundant reference to a hollow planet earth, with multi-layered worlds existing right beneath our feet. In fact, it's a case of, 'as above, so below' -- echoing the Kabbalistic 'unified theory of knowledge'. Just as there are said to be 'seven Heavens', so too is it recorded that there are seven nether worlds, one above the other, each inhabited by its own species. Indeed, one notable source, the 17th century Kabbalistic classic, Hesed L'Avraham by Rabbi Avraham Azulai, tells us that there are as many as 365 different species of beings living under the earth's surface. These are said to be half human and half animal, perhaps something like the legendary centaur.

I hope some of this will answer your questions:


Regarding what Sheol is:

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http://www.torah.org/qanda/seequanda.php?id=53

The word "sheol" occurs in Gen. 37,42, and 44, in Num. 30 and 33, in Job, and many other places in the Bible. Many of its uses imply that it is an underworld inhabited by (the spirits of) the dead, though in many cases it is used only as a term for the lowest point in the universe. Apparently sheol is a place of silence (dumah); see Psalm 115:17. The reference to sheol in 1 Samuel 2:6 and Psalms 30:4 suggest that the dead will be brought back from there at the resurrection. There are about a dozen references to legends about sheol in Ginzberg's Legends of the Jews, and a brief discussion of sheol in the article "Netherworld" in the Encyclopedia Judaica (vol.12, cols. 996-998).



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http://www.vbm-torah.org/archive/jewphi/47a.doc
   We find many Scriptural references to Sheol, to where souls depart after death.  Sheol exists; it is an actual place.  Sheol is figuratively described as the lower land, bearing resemblance to the grave.  We cannot describe the exact essence of Sheol, but we will not be mistaken if we view it as a place of static existence.  This is existence without life, a static existence with no action, anger, or injustice.  If our world is the world of action, Sheol is the world of rest for the weary.

And:

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http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=494:belief-in-heaven-is-fundamental-to-judaism&catid=39:inspiration&Itemid=512
Sins that were not cleansed prior to death are removed by a process described as Sheol or Gehinom. Contrary to the Greek and Christian view of eternal damnation in Hades or Hell, the “punishment” of Sheol, as described in the Jewish Scriptures, is temporary.

This is why King David said, “You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay” (Psalm 16:10).

Additionally, the prophet Samuel says, “He [the Lord] brings down to Sheol and brings up again" (I Samuel 2: 6), and the prophet Jonah described it in the following way, “I called out of my affliction to the LORD, and He answered me; out of the depth of Sheol cried I, and you heard my voice” (Jonah 2:3).

Judaism’s view of hell more closely resembles purgatory. However, the pain the soul experiences is not physical.  It has been compared to psychological anguish, shame and healing upon reviewing the history of one’s life in a body, and how it wasted opportunities to serve G-d. This may explain why people who have near death experience often claim their entire life flashed in front of them.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Igor Schwarzman

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2011, 02:05:27 PM »
Thank you for making clear what Sheol is. Your links are always interesting, I never heard about the 18000 planets before.

But I'm still unaware of the following:

1. If Gehinnom is a place for spiritual punishment, why does Isaiah 66:24 then mention a 'fire that is not extinguished'? I also heard Chaim sometimes saying about wrongdoers on Ask JTF that they will come to a 'warm place' in afterlife. Is this meant to be metaphoric, that the 'fire' symbolizes the spiritual pain?

2. Is there a difference between the treatment of Jews and Goyim in afterlife?

Offline muman613

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2011, 09:41:12 PM »
Thank you for making clear what Sheol is. Your links are always interesting, I never heard about the 18000 planets before.

But I'm still unaware of the following:

1. If Gehinnom is a place for spiritual punishment, why does Isaiah 66:24 then mention a 'fire that is not extinguished'? I also heard Chaim sometimes saying about wrongdoers on Ask JTF that they will come to a 'warm place' in afterlife. Is this meant to be metaphoric, that the 'fire' symbolizes the spiritual pain?

2. Is there a difference between the treatment of Jews and Goyim in afterlife?

Hello Igor,

You always have such interesting questions. I will attempt to answer according to my understanding, which as I said before a lot of these questions are not absolutely known and some interpretations are different than what I have been taught.

You realize that once you die your body will be buried and your spirit will depart from your body and go before the 'Heavenly Tribunal'. It is here that your soul will be judged, with HaSatan on one side acting as the Prosecuting attorney and angel Michael on the other {this is for Jews since angel Michael is called the 'defender of Israel'} who is acting as a defense attorney {or advocate}.

All of our sins are placed on one side of a scale and all of our observance of commandments {Mitzvot} are placed on the other side of the scale. Then according to a 'Calculation' which we really don't understand {because we believe that G-d acts with a trait of Mercy in judging us} we are judged.

Will it be Gehinnom? How long in Gehinnom for the transgressions? Which part of Gehinnom will your spirit spend its purgatory? All of these are according to this calculation which Hashem makes in judging our existence in his creation.

I do not believe that we experience 'physical pain' as we understand it here. The Torah always uses metaphors or what is called Anthropomorphic expression. Saying that Hashem used a 'strong arm' to bring out the Jews from Egypt is one example of an anthropomorphic expression... Thus I do not think we experience a fire like we experience it here. This fire is a fire in the soul...

As to your last question... All I know is that our Holy Talmud does say that the righteous of the nations have a portion in the world to come. This means that Gan Eden {The Garden of Eden/Paradise} is promised to those who obey at least the seven Noachide laws. Those who hate the nation of Israel though do not have any portion in the world to come. The enemies of Israel according to all sources will ultimately be destroyed because Hashem willed their destruction at some time in the future.

I am glad to answer your questions... I hope you find answers..

muman



References:

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http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/gentiles.htm

The Torah maintains that the righteous Gentiles of all nations (those observing the Seven Laws of Noah, listed below) have a place in the World to Come.  But not all religious Gentiles earn eternal life by virtue of observing their religion:

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http://www.torah.org/features/spirfocus/tolerance.html

One of the main differences that separates Judaism from the other major monotheistic religions - Christianity and Islam – is the matter of exclusivity. The rabbis of the Talmud long ago reiterated the traditional Jewish position that “the righteous of the nations of the world all have a share in the World to Come.” This meant immortality of the soul and heavenly reward once one passes on from this life.

One need not be Jewish to gain holiness, immortality and heavenly eternal reward. I have always been reminded of the famous advertisement so popular in New York City decades ago which loudly proclaimed: “You don’t have to be Jewish to enjoy Levy’s rye bread.” Well, immortality and heavenly reward aren’t rye bread but you get the idea I am trying to communicate.

The seven Noahide laws, which for all practical purposes form the basis of Western civilization, are the guidelines for determining “the righteous of the nations of the world.” Because of this sense of non-exclusivity, Judaism allows for tolerance and diversity in a world of different faiths, societies and peoples. (One should always be sophisticated enough to differentiate between the behavior of Jews and Judaism itself.)
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« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 09:50:51 PM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Igor Schwarzman

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2011, 12:53:10 PM »
Thank for making this clear muman. I really enjoy reading your answers.

I know much more about afterlife in Judaism than before! What I know now is the following:

After our death, our soul and body are departed until the Messiah comes and the dead will ressurect. Our souls are judged after death regarding our deeds in lifetime. The righteous will enter Paradise, Gan Eden. But if we became impure because of our deeds, we need to get purified in Gehinnom (before entering Gan Eden and The World To Come), which is unlike "Hell" in Christianity not a place of physical burning, but a place for spiritual purification. Isaiah 66:24 mentions Gehinnom for example as a 'fire that is not extinguished', meaning a methaphoric, spiritual fire in Jewish interpretation, unlike the prevalent Christian interpretation of a real, physical fire. For most souls, this process takes 12 months, but for some it will take longer or even be everlasting. So Hitler would be punished by eternally being showed detailed all the suffering he caused. When the Messiah comes, the dead will resurrect, and if they were righteous, have a long life in The World To Come, and after this will enter Gan Eden. Jews and Non Jews receive same reward and punishment for good or wicked deeds in afterlife, but Jews have to obey 613 commandements while Non Jews have only 7 to obey. Correct me if I got something wrong!

But I've still two questions ^^:

1. Is it for Jews more easy to come to Gehinnom, than for Non Jews, because we've 606 commandements more to obey? Do we need to be more carefull?

2. Do you know a page where I can find a collection of afterlife mentions in the Tanakh? I know the Tanakh focuses more on this life, but I'm just interested.

Offline muman613

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2011, 01:50:50 PM »
Thank for making this clear muman. I really enjoy reading your answers.

I know much more about afterlife in Judaism than before! What I know now is the following:

After our death, our soul and body are departed until the Messiah comes and the dead will ressurect. Our souls are judged after death regarding our deeds in lifetime. The righteous will enter Paradise, Gan Eden. But if we became impure because of our deeds, we need to get purified in Gehinnom (before entering Gan Eden and The World To Come), which is unlike "Hell" in Christianity not a place of physical burning, but a place for spiritual purification. Isaiah 66:24 mentions Gehinnom for example as a 'fire that is not extinguished', meaning a methaphoric, spiritual fire in Jewish interpretation, unlike the prevalent Christian interpretation of a real, physical fire. For most souls, this process takes 12 months, but for some it will take longer or even be everlasting. So Hitler would be punished by eternally being showed detailed all the suffering he caused. When the Messiah comes, the dead will resurrect, and if they were righteous, have a long life in The World To Come, and after this will enter Gan Eden. Jews and Non Jews receive same reward and punishment for good or wicked deeds in afterlife, but Jews have to obey 613 commandements while Non Jews have only 7 to obey. Correct me if I got something wrong!

But I've still two questions ^^:

1. Is it for Jews more easy to come to Gehinnom, than for Non Jews, because we've 606 commandements more to obey? Do we need to be more carefull?

2. Do you know a page where I can find a collection of afterlife mentions in the Tanakh? I know the Tanakh focuses more on this life, but I'm just interested.

Shalom Igor,

It does sound like you have learned a bit on this topic. Yasher Koach...

On these questions.

1) We do believe that a Jew has a higher calling being that we consider ourselves 'chosen' and our mission is to be a 'light unto the nations'. Thus we accordingly have a higher level of expectation from Hashem. Non Jews do not have a command to obey Shabbat while a Jew does, a non-Jew does not have to be concerned with the laws of Kashrut while a Jew does, etc. etc... We are judged on each transgression according to that 'calculation' which I mentioned before. Indeed a Jew, once made aware of the nature of our covenant with Hashem, should obey the commandments in order to receive the reward which awaits him.

2) You may find these links very educational:

http://tvtorah.com/index.php/Judaism-Channel/Rabbi-Eliyahu-Kin/Gan-Eden-Gehenom-and-Olam-Haba-Paradise-Hell-and-the-World-to-Come.html

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/the-ladder-up/15.htm

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The Torah tells us that if a Jew lives well and fulfills his purpose, his reward is the World to Come. On the other hand, we are told that all Jews will inherit the World to Come.[98] This implies even those who have not lived well and fulfilled their purpose. Which is correct?

The Torah is the wisdom of Hashem. It follows that it is endlessly deep and infinitely wide. It applies exactly to, and equally in, all times and places and can have no conflicts. Any apparent inconsistency can always be reconciled depending only on the level of our appreciation.

The Rebbe has explained[99] that Olam Habo (the World to Come) is a term which refers to two separate states.

The first is Gan Eden. It is the state of neshomos, when they have successfully finished their mitzvos, refining the various bodies in which they have been enclothed and elevating their environment. The neshomah is in Gan Eden as a reward. There it learns the Torah it learned on earth at a much higher level, and basks in the glow of Hashem's presence.

We are told that this is so pleasurable that one moment of this pleasure is more than the entire life on this world.[100]

The other state of the World to Come, is Techias HaMeisim (the Revival of the Dead). This will be a time when neshomos are resurrected into the bodies that were their attire, so being brought back to life. The period of Techias HaMeisim will follow the revelation of Moshiach.[101]

The Rebbe has explained that those people who are alive when Moshiach comes will not necessarily die before the period of Techias HaMeisim.

So the contradiction is resolved; Gan Eden is reward for some; Techias HaMeisim rewards all Jews. Both are the World to Come.

What happens to neshomos who do not merit Gan Eden? They have Gehinom. The word merit is not used in the sense of a naughty child being rapped over the knuckles. The notion is that the neshomah has not been elevated to the point where it warrants Gan Eden. Those who cannot pass into Gan Eden withdraw to Gehinom. There, neshomos, stained with their transgressions, are scrubbed spotless. As a facet of Hashem's kindness, they are then able to move on to Gan Eden or their next Gilgul (life cycle).

Which is higher? Gan Eden or Techias HaMeisim? The answer to, and the understanding of, this question is the fascinating logical conclusion of all Chassidus. It is a secret so little understood that many fine scholars could never have navigated these waters of Torah without the beacon of Chassidus.

First, the Rebbe explains, Techias HaMeisim is later in time. As a culmination of everything, it must be a higher level.[102] But is that not strange? On the one hand, Jews who have lived exemplary lives are rewarded with Gan Eden. On the other hand, the whole rabble of Jewry, who ignore our laws, steal, commit commercial rape and pillage and think of only themselves, are sharing Techias HaMeisim with Tzaddikim! How can that be?

The world is divided into Torah and mitzvos. Torah is the spiritual, mitzvos is the physical. The physical follows the spiritual. There is a story of a Rebbe who was alive at the time America was first mapped out. When he was brought a map of America, he examined it and pronounced it to be incorrect. There was skepticism from some of those who should have known better. When it was in fact found that the map was wrong, one of the Chassidim asked the Rebbe how he knew. The Rebbe replied that he looked into the letter Beis of the first word of the Torah, Bereishis, and that is how he knew. What does that mean? For a Rebbe, a Tzaddik, who knows spirituality, the physical follows naturally.

So what does it mean the world is divided into Torah and mitzvos? It means the spiritual and the physical, the neshomah and the body, a driving force and an activity. Because there is Torah and mitzvos, there is a neshomah and a body. There is a spiritual force, the Torah, and the physical activity, the mitzvos.
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You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2011, 01:57:15 PM »
Here is the page from WebShas which include references in Torah {Written & Oral} to Gan Eden/Olam Haba:



http://www.webshas.org/emunah/haba.htm

World to Come [Olam HaBa] and Garden of Eden

Please note that there is much confusion over the meaning of "World to Come - Olam HaBa" and I have included here any instance in which the Talmud opts for the term "Olam HaBa."

Links
Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden
Era of Messiah and related Eras
Death, and Near Death Experiences: Beyond the Law
Interaction between the living and the dead
Reward and Punishment
Gehennom




Description of the World to Come

Mitzvot for which one has reward in this world and in the World to Come: Shabbat 127a
The great reward, in this world and in the World to Come, for a "light" Mitzvah: Menachot 44a
In the World to Come the Good in everything will be obvious, so that there will be no need for the Blessing of "The Judge of Truth," only "The Good and Beneficient": Pesachim 50a
The Evil Inclination testifying against its host in the World to Come: Succah 52b
The World to Come as a World without physical desire or jealousy or anger or competition; only the Righteous Enjoying Manifestation of Gd's Presence: Berachot 17a
Gd's Name will be written and pronounced in the identical "Yud"-"Hay" form: Pesachim 50a
The light for the Righteous entering the World to Come is like the Morning Light: Pesachim 2a
Torah Scholars will not find any peace, even in the World to Come: Moed Katan 29a
Light will be plentiful in the World to Come: Pesachim 50a
Understanding of [difficult sections of Torah such as] Leprosy and Structures Containing Death-Impurity: Pesachim 50a
The rich and important will be taken lightly, while those who are downtrodden in this World will be on top: Pesachim 50a
Praised is one who arrives there with his Torah learning at hand: Pesachim 50a
People killed by the king have the highest place in the World to Come: Pesachim 50a
The Harugei Lud in the World to Come: Pesachim 50a
Crown for those who Give Charity in secret: Shabbat 104a
Whether the deceased communicate with each other: Berachot 18b-19a
Whether the dead are aware of what is happening in this world: Berachot 18b-19a
Who is great in the next world, according to reports by Titus, Bilam and Jews who sinned while here on earth: Gittin 56b-57a


"Shortcuts" to the World to Come

General Issues of "Shortcuts": MYT Berachot 1:6:6
One's Rebbe is the one who brings him into the World to Come: Bava Metzia 33a
Power to promise someone else a share in the World to Come: Taanit 29a
Earning a share in Olam HaBa as a Reward for having one more Mitzvah than transgression: Kiddushin 39b
Entry of a Nochri into Olam HaBa: Taanit 29a
Olam HaBa is only acquirable via Suffering: Berachot 5a
For Shema and for the Amidah: Berachot 16b
Linking Prayer of Redemption to the Amidah at the Evening Prayer: Berachot 4b, 9b
Reciting Ashrei (thrice) daily: Berachot 4b
Honoring one's parents: Shabbat 127a; Kiddushin 39b, 40a
Acts of Generosity: Shabbat 127a; Kiddushin 39b, 40a
Living in Israel: Pesachim 113a
Keeping Peace: Shabbat 127a; Kiddushin 39b, 40a
Housing Guests: Shabbat 127a; Kiddushin 39b
Raising one's children to learn Torah: Pesachim 113a
Making Havdalah on wine left over from Kiddush: Pesachim 113a
One can tell whether a person is a member of the World to Come, by the nature of their Eulogy: Shabbat 153a
Acquired through Learning Torah: Bava Metzia 33a
Acquired through Learning Torah Laws: Megillah 28b
R' Pereida had a student who needed to have a lesson repeated 400 times in order for him to learn it properly. Once, the student still didn't understand, and the student explained it was because he had heard someone telling R' Pereida he would have to get R' Pereida for a Mitzvah later, so that the student had his mind on R' Pereida having to leave. R' Pereida then sat and taught him the lesson 400 more times. A Divine Voice emerged and offered R' Pereida 400 years of extra life, or merit for the next world for his generation. R' Pereida took the latter, and so Gd gave him both: Eruvin 54b
A person who thinks before he acts, weighing the benefit of a Mitzvah against the loss due to a transgression, will merit to see the time of the Messiah: Sotah 5b


Losing one's share in the Next World
A man who crosses a body of water behind a woman: Eruvin 18b
A man who sleeps with a woman who is married to another still enters the next world: Bava Metzia 59a
One who embarrasses another loses his share in the next world: Bava Metzia 59a


Garden of Eden
The Garden was created before the Universe was: Pesachim 54a; Nedarim 39b
"In the future" there will be a circle of the righteous in the Garden of Eden, and Gd will be among them so clearly that each of them will be able to point: Taanit 31a
The Garden of Eden located on Earth: Eruvin 19a
The Openings of the Garden: Eruvin 19a

The Heavenly Study-Hall - Yeshivah Shel Maalah / Metivta d'Rekia
Shemuel's father in the Heavenly Study Hall: Berachot 18b
Shemuel getting Levi into the Heavenly Study Hall: Berachot 18b
Can be earned by Giving business to a Torah Scholar: Pesachim 53b
Those in the next world being aware of the Torah study of those in this world: Bava Metzia 62b-63a
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2011, 03:37:28 PM »
WebShas is a great site for those interested in Jewish ideas and where their sources are from the Torah & Talmud:



http://www.webshas.org/emunah/gehennom.htm

Hell - Gehennom


Links
The Angel of Hell
Satan and the Angel of Death
Divine Reward and Punishment
The Next World - Olam HaBa


General Details
Details of the valley known as "The Valley of Ben Hinom" - "Gei ben Hinom": Eruvin 19a; Succah 32b
The openings of Gehennom in the desert, the sea and Jerusalem: Eruvin 19a
The breadth and width of Hell: Pesachim 94a
Hell was created before the Universe: Pesachim 54a; Nedarim 39b
When the "Mouth" of Hell was created: Nedarim 39b
Its fire was created on Day Two of Creation: Pesachim 54a
Better to receive punishment in this world, rather than after death: Pesachim 57b
Those who remain in Hell past 12 months: Rosh HaShanah 17a
Isaac's merit keeping the Jews from Hell: Shabbat 104a
Why Gehennom has the name "Gehennom": Eruvin 19a
Gehennom is also titled "Yam Kol [Sea of All]" because so many go there: R. Shabbat 104a "LiYam Kol"
Gehennom is also known as "Tifteh": Eruvin 19a
Gehennom is also known as "Sheol": Eruvin 19a
Gehennom is also known as "Avadon": Eruvin 19a
Gehennom is also known as "Be'er Shachat": Eruvin 19a
Gehennom is also known as "Bor Shaon": Eruvin 19a
Gehennom is also known as "Tit haYavan": Eruvin 19a
Gehennom is also known as "Tzalmavet": Eruvin 19a
Gehennom is also known as "Eretz haTachtit": Eruvin 19a
Gehennom is also known as "Paku": Megillah 15b
Gehennom is also known as "Raah [Evil]": Nedarim 22a, 40a
Rage causes one to be afflicted by "types of Hell": Nedarim 22a
When Avshalom was hanging, he saw Gehennom open beneath him: Sotah 10b
King David cried out over Avshalom, "My son," eight times; this brought Avshalom out of seven levels of Gehennom, and either caused his head to come back to his body, or brought him into the next world: Sotah 10b


Groups of People in Hell
People who are arrogant: Sotah 4b-5a
When humans punish a wicked person, they have to shut the wicked person's mouth to keep him from slandering them; Gd punishes the wicked in Gehennom, and they admit His justice: Eruvin 19a
Whether the wicked repent at the entrance to Gehennom, or not: Eruvin 19a
The punishment of those who cause others to sin carelessly, with their bodies: Rosh HaShanah 17a [2x]
The Definition of the Above category includes Jews who don't wear Phylacteries: Rosh HaShanah 17a
The Definition of the Above category includes non-Jews who reign with terror, or who cause sexual sin: Rosh HaShanah 17a
The punishment of opponents of Torah: Rosh HaShanah 17a
The punishment of Those who Betray their People: Rosh HaShanah 17a
The punishment of heretics: Rosh HaShanah 17a
The punishment of those who act separately from the community: Rosh HaShanah 17a
The punishment of those leaders who cause others to fear them: Rosh HaShanah 17a
The fate of Yeravam ben Nevat: Rosh HaShanah 17a
The punishment of those who embarrass others: Bava Metzia 58b
The punishment of those who alter others' names, even if the nicknames are common: Bava Metzia 58b
The punishment of adulterous men: Bava Metzia 58b
A person who is adulterous will end up in Gehennom, even if he is a Torah Scholar: Sotah 4b
A person who listens to his wife's advice in certain areas, as King Achav did, will end up in gehennom: Bava Metzia 59a


Anecdotes involving Hell
Korach's children were saved from descending into Hell: Megillah 14a
When Nevuchadnezzar descended to Hell, the people there thought he had come to rule them, until a Bat Kol [Divine Voice] put him in his place: Shabbat 149b-150a
Avraham saves his descendants from Gehennom, unless they intermarried: Eruvin 19a


Attributes/Acts which prevent entry to Hell
Jews are protected from the fires of Gehennom by their Mitzvot: Eruvin 19a
Humility: Yevamot 102b
Fear of sin: Shabbat 104a
Awe of HaShem: Yevamot 102b
Charity: Gittin 7a
Visiting the Sick: Nedarim 40a
Care in enunciating the words of Shema merits a chilling of Hell: Berachot 15b
Suffering poverty: Eruvin 41b
Suffering intestinal disorders: Eruvin 41b
Suffering from money-lenders: Eruvin 41b [according to Rashi]
Suffering from a harsh government: Eruvin 41b [according to Tosafot]
Suffering from a bad spouse: Eruvin 41b

Other
Titus's attempt to avoid posthumous Divine punishment via cremation and scattering of his ashes - and how the tactic failed: Gittin 56b-57a

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Igor Schwarzman

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2011, 09:25:08 PM »
Many thanks for your links muman. They are very interesting, and I currently engage myself into them. But I see all of them are from the Talmud. Do you know where I can find a collection of mentions about afterlife from the Tanakh only?

Offline muman613

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2011, 11:55:42 PM »
Many thanks for your links muman. They are very interesting, and I currently engage myself into them. But I see all of them are from the Talmud. Do you know where I can find a collection of mentions about afterlife from the Tanakh only?

See this article which discusses why there is little in the Tanakh about the afterlife:

http://vbm-torah.org/archive/intparsha67/32-67behar-bechuk.htm
Quote
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WHY NO MENTION OF AN AFTERLIFE?
 
            Considering our Parasha in this light raises a profound problem.  Why is it that the Torah, in its discussions of reward and punishment, invariably speaks in terms that are material and utilizes descriptions that are tangible and physical?  If life's greatest rewards await us after death, in the realm of the spirit where base corporeality holds no sway, then why doesn't the Torah ever spell out the "afterlife," the "world to come," or the "future world" in explicit terms?  If the greatest pain that the human being can experience is truly spiritual estrangement from G-d, then why are such descriptions so obviously absent from the "curses" of our section?  In other words, why speak of rainfall, harvest, health or peace when one ought to speak of radiance, repose, and being bound up in the bliss of G-d's eternity?  The question is in actuality not at all confined to our passage, for everywhere the Torah speaks in similar terms:
 
If you serve G-d your Lord then He will bless your food and your water, and I will remove sickness from your midst (Shemot 23:25).  Perform My statutes and observe and keep My laws, then you will dwell securely upon the land.  The land will give its produce, and you will eat in satiation, and you will dwell securely upon it (Vayikra 25:18-19).  It shall be that in consequence of listening to these laws, observing and keeping them, that G-d your Lord will fulfill the covenant and the compassion that He swore to your ancestors.  He will love you, bless you and multiply you, He will bless the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your earth, your grain, wine and oil, the offspring of your cattle and your sturdy sheep, upon the land that He swore to your ancestors to give to them (Devarim 7:12-13).
 
Now, lest there be any confusion about how our tradition views the relative value of the spiritual afterlife versus the dizzying promises of our passage concerning the physical and material pleasures of this world, the Rambam, in a well-known passage from his Laws of Teshuva (8:1-5), sets us straight:
 
The ultimate good reserved for the righteous is the afterlife in the future world, for it is life that includes no death whatsoever and the complete goodness that involves no bad…in the afterlife there are no physical bodies but rather the incorporeal souls of the righteous, just like the ministering angels.  Since there are no bodies, then there is neither eating nor drinking, nor any of the other needs of physical bodies in this world…
 
Now this goodness may seem inconsequential to you, so that you might imagine that the future reward for the mitzvot and for a man's perfection in the ways of truth ought be for him to eat and drink the best foods, have relations with the most beautiful women, don garments of fine embroidered linen while lying recumbent in ivory palaces, and to make use of vessels of silver and gold and the like.  This is in fact the opinion of those foolish and philandering Arabs (who perceive the afterlife in corporeal terms)!  But the wise ones who possess knowledge know that all such things are truly transitory vanities that have no lasting value.  We regard such things as very good in this world only because here we have bodies and corporeality, and these things are needs of the body.  The soul only desires them here because the body craves them in order to achieve its desires and to be vigorous.  But where there is no materiality, then of necessity all of these things are irrelevant!
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You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2011, 12:00:05 AM »
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/166898/jewish/Life-After-Death-in-the-Bible.htm

Why Is There Little Mention of Life After Death in the Bible?

By Aron Moss

Question:

Does Judaism believe in an afterlife? From what I've read of the Torah it seems that there is no mention of life after death. Is this world all there is?

Answer:

You have hit on one of the most powerful messages of Judaism: there may be many worlds, but this is the one that matters the most.

As you wrote, the Torah doesn't mention life after death. Although it is spoken about in the later prophets, the afterlife is conspicuously absent from the Five Books of Moses.

Having said that, there is certainly an indication that ultimate justice will be done someplace other than this world. A striking example is the story of Cain and Abel.

Cain and Abel bring offerings to G-d; G-d likes Abel's offering but not Cain's; Cain is jealous and kills Abel. End of story. But wait! In one line the Torah says that G-d is happy with Abel, the next minute he is dead! And Cain, who G-d wasn't happy with, walks away! Is this the reward for doing good?

The message is clear: this world is not always fair. But G-d will not remain indebted. Ultimate justice will come later.

So why doesn't the Torah mention the next world? Why is it left to later prophets to describe it?

Because the Torah is about this world, not the next. While other religions dangle exciting promises of what lies in store for the righteous in paradise, even giving vivid descriptions of who awaits you there and interesting facts about their biology, Judaism doesn't see this as a valid motive for doing good. G-d wants us to do good because it is good.

There is another lifetime in which the righteous will be rewarded, and the wicked punished - we believe that, the prophets spoke about it. But that is G-d's business. We have to concern ourselves with this lifetime. Our mission is to do good, fight evil, and make this a safe and comfortable world - a place where both G-d and man can feel at home.

Without belief in an afterlife, there is no justice. The Cains of this world can get away with murder. But by over-emphasizing the importance of the afterlife over this life, we run the risk of belittling the sanctity and preciousness of life itself.

Judaism has a different approach: Better leave the next world to G-d; meanwhile let's work on this world. Starting with ourselves.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline edu

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2011, 02:30:05 AM »
Igor Schwarzmann
wrote:
Quote
Many thanks for your links muman. They are very interesting, and I currently engage myself into them. But I see all of them are from the Talmud. Do you know where I can find a collection of mentions about afterlife from the Tanakh only?
I will restate what I have written above as an introduction
There are 2 types of reward after death for the righteous Jew or righteous Gentile.
1 The Spiritual resting place of the soul - called Gan {Garden} Eden, where the soul experiences spiritual delights in accordance to the merit it earned directly or indirectly.
2 According to Rabbis, such as Rabbi Ovadia of Bartenura, [and I believe this is the majority viewpoint], some time in the future, the soul will be reunited with an improved body and the soul and body will continue to exist eternally in a world that is much more satisfying than it is today.
Given my contention that resurrection of the dead is describing the World to Come, there are many references in the Tanakh. The source that the Sages cite in tractate Sanhedrin is Dvarim/Deuteronomy 32:39 "I will make them die and bring to life". The Talmud asks perhaps, the verse is talking about making one individual die and a different one alive. The Talmud answers, since the verse continues on by talking about the healing of an injured individual, just like in that instance it is talking about the same individual, so too at the beginning of the verse, when talking about bringing to life, it is talking about the same individual that was put to death.
Indication #2, Yaakov/Jacob makes a big fuss about not burying him in Egypt, but rather to bury him in Israel. Why all the fuss? One of the reasons is that as far as the afterlife is concerned it makes a big difference. There is an element of atonement plus one comes to back life earlier if one is buried in Israel.
The prophets Eliyahu and Elijah bring the dead back to life (although only temporarily)
Many (but not all) understand Yechezkel's/Ezekiel's vision of the bones of killed people coming back to life as referring to resurrection of the dead (see chapter 37)
see Daniel 12:2 "And many that sleep in the dust of the earth will awaken, these for a life of eternity", etc.
There are other examples, but I think I have provided more than enough.
I will also bring up one more point. If man had eaten from the tree of life, it says in the Tanakh, he would have lived forever. So again we see, the concept of eternal life is not alien to the Tanakh and from the other verses that I brought, we see that after man has gained atonement through death, he regains his access to eternal life, if he was righteous.

Offline Igor Schwarzman

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2011, 10:52:09 AM »
Shalom and thank you for your replies.

But I'm a little bit confused about what I read here: http://www.webshas.org/emunah/sechar/punish.htm

Boiling feces (Eruvin 21b; Gittin 57a) and boiling semen (Gittin 56b-57a) as specific punishments. That's kind of nauseating... what does this mean?


Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2011, 01:28:44 PM »
Igor all of these things have deeper meanings behind them. We do not know what is exactly in store for us in the after life. The Rambam and the sages (and the Bible) mainly deals with this life because it is here where we can make a difference and where we can and should live properly. Our main focus should be and is dealing with this world and this life we have. In questions and matter pertaining to the after life I say just wait and see. No point in wasting our time dwelling on these issues. Be more concerned about what you need to be doing right now, and the next day (and the day after) in serving G-D properly.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2011, 07:47:29 PM »
This is probably one of the most difficult topics in Judaism. I'll let you know after I experience it!

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2011, 11:21:00 PM »
This is probably one of the most difficult topics in Judaism. I'll let you know after I experience it!

 Be careful with your words. Is that a vow you are making? Perhaps you will then come to his dream or something I dont know and have to tell him (assuming you go first).
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2011, 11:25:14 PM »
Be careful with your words. Is that a vow you are making? Perhaps you will then come to his dream or something I dont know and have to tell him (assuming you go first).
G-d can detect humor.