Author Topic: Opinions on Chabad (Read 5029 times)

Menachem · « **on:** December 20, 2011, 11:43:52 PM »

Hello,

I am someone who grew up in a ~~deeply secular~~ staunchly atheist home, but am wrestling with the idea of becoming BT. While I do not believe the Rebbe ZT"L was Moshiach, I do find chabad.org to be, without question, the best Jewish resource on the net. Sometimes I am very bothered by the downright hostile response Chabad receives from some Jews; aside from the Messianic issues I think they do truly wonderful work.

I should also note that I have never once seen Schneerson refer to himself as Moshiach; it seems to always be someone else misinterpreting his words.

Any frum Jews have any thoughts on this? TIA!

muman613 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 21, 2011, 01:31:52 AM »

I certainly agree with you...

I have nothing but good things to say about Chabad. I personally know {and have the phone numbers} of four Chabad Rabbis. I have spent many Shabbatons with Chabad Rabbis at their homes.

I never say anything negative about Chabad. I have defended them against any attacks. I know personally that the Chabad Rabbis are Zionists and they are proud Jews. I don't know any Chabad who think that the Rebbe was Moshiach. I have heard that there are some in New York but there are none here in California where I live.

I have gotten my mitzvah materials from Chabad for many years. I also donate a good deal each year to Chabad either directly to the local Chabads or through the national Chabad organization {via the national telethon}. I buy my lulav and Etrog from one of my Chabad rabbis. I also got my Tefillin from Chabad Rabbis.

I will end with a story... It is interesting that I just responded to this Chabad Rabbis Chanukah greetings this evening...

When I went down to Southern California when my father was dying in the hospital at the end of 2009 {New Years eve I visited} it was a Friday. I visited my father in the afternoon and as evening arrived I had to figure out what to do for Shabbat. I asked my step-mother about it and she said there was a local Chabad nearby. It turned out that this Chabad center was within walking distance of my fathers house. So I went there....

When I got to the center the door was open but nobody was there except for the Rabbi. Rabbi Bryski warmly welcomed me and I asked why there was nobody there for Shabbat. He said that he is going to have Shabbat at his home. I explained the circumstance that my father was terminally ill in the hospital and I had nowhere to spend Shabbat and he invited me home with him for Maariv and Kabbalat Shabbot davening. I accepted and I had a wonderful evening with the Rabbi.

I attended the Shabbat Torah services that Saturday and after Shabbat was over I went and visited my father again. My father passed a week after I visited... I had to go back down to Southern California for the funeral. I visited the Rabbi after the funeral and have kept in touch with him ever since.

All in all don't ask me to say anything bad about Chabad. I love them. My Chabad friend just came by to deliver 2 dozen Latkes which I will serve at a Chanukah party.... He is an angel and he is the Mashgiach in the Kosher Kitchen at the University my minyan davens at.

GunsAndRosesFan · « **Reply #2 on:** December 21, 2011, 10:58:06 AM »

Chabad are generally speaking, good people

Menachem · « **Reply #3 on:** December 21, 2011, 09:30:08 PM »

muman613,

Thank you very much for your reply. Your story made me smile and your general sentiments echo mine almost exactly; the only difference being my only interactions with Chabad thus far have been on the internet. I have been going through some very trying times recently, but Chabad's teaching have always "been there" for me. As crazy as it might sound, sometimes the Rebbe's "Daily Doses" (and other wise teachings) seem custom-made for issues I am confronting; as I said before, no other frum site even comes close.

My background makes it a bit intimidating, but maybe soon I'll have enough guts to visit the closest Chabad house.

Thank you again.

heyuguys · « **Reply #4 on:** December 22, 2011, 09:19:33 AM »

i think the chabad lubuvitchers are good people, but i've had some weird experiences with them. ive heard a couple say they believe the rebbe schneerson is on par with moses. also i know theyve tried or are trying to copyright his likeness which i find kind of weird. they seem to be good right wing peopel though which is really good.

Tag-MehirTzedek · « **Reply #5 on:** December 22, 2011, 09:28:53 AM »

If you have the opportunity to go to some place else I recommend it. If not then perhaps you can go to Chabad house.

GunsAndRosesFan · « **Reply #6 on:** December 22, 2011, 01:14:40 PM »

a good friend of mine was on a trip in Thailand and all of his money wad stolen.. So he went to beit chabad in Bankok and they helped him.. What saints!

SharonD · « **Reply #7 on:** December 23, 2011, 01:04:08 PM »

Love Chabad because I love being w/my own kind (usually)! But I also love having control over my own life and making my own choices. Too many people get caught up in a ritualistic frenzy, thinking it makes them more Jewish. At a certain point, you need to learn and think for yourself. I'm sorry, but peppering one' speech with a million Yiddish "Chabadisms" and shokeling like a madman doesn't make one more Jewish.

For once, I'd like to see someone ACTUALLY was his hands w/soap & water before eating, instead of the perfunctory three splashes on each hand before ha-motzi.

muman613 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 23, 2011, 01:06:23 PM »

Quote from: SharonD on December 23, 2011, 01:04:08 PM

Love Chabad because I love being w/my own kind (usually)! But I also love having control over my own life and making my own choices. Too many people get caught up in a ritualistic frenzy, thinking it makes them more Jewish. At a certain point, you need to learn and think for yourself. I'm sorry, but peppering one' speech with a million Yiddish "Chabadisms" and shokeling like a madman doesn't make one more Jewish.

For once, I'd like to see someone ACTUALLY was his hands w/soap & water before eating, instead of the perfunctory three splashes on each hand before ha-motzi.

The purpose of the hand washing is not to clean the hands... This is the way we all do the hand washing, on the right and on the left.... It is not Chabad which instituted this..

Quote

http://www.aish.com/sh/ht/fn/48969461.html

How To

1. Before washing, make sure the challahs, challah knife, challah cover, and salt are all on the table.
2. In the kitchen, hand towels should be laid out for guests to dry their hands after washing.
3. Use either a special washing cup (a large, two-handled cup) or a regular glass without handles ― providing the top rim has no indentations or spout and holds at least 5 ounces.
4. Remove any rings from your fingers. Hold the cup in your right hand while filling it with water from the tap.
5. Pass the cup to your left hand and then pour about half the water over the right hand, soaking the hand on both sides from the wrist down. You want every area of the hand to be wet.
6. Now pass the cup to your right hand and repeat on the left side. (Refill the cup if necessary.)
7. After the hands have been washed, they should be held upward, so that the water drips toward the wrist and not the fingers. The blessing is then recited:

Also regarding Shukling... Nobody is forcing you to do it... But Shuckling is not a 'Chabadism' either.... This is the way Orthodox Jews daven... It comes down to the idea that is expressed in the Psalms...

Quote

http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/142/Q1/

Dear Rabbi,
Why is it when we pray to Hashem, many people "shuckle" back and forth while others do not? Isn't it disrespectful to sway back and forth when we are "talking" in our own way to Hashem? Please explain this (I think) "custom." Is it truly disrespectful or is it something else? Thanks,

Dear Burt Falkenstein,

'Shuckling' - swaying back and forth during prayer and Torah study - is a legitimate custom. Several reasons are offered for this custom:

The soul is akin to a flame. Just as a flame always flickers and strives upward, so too the soul is never still, constantly moving and striving to reach upward towards Hashem.
Shaking allows you to pray with your whole body, as King David said "Let all my bones exclaim 'Hashem, who is like You!'"
When we stand before Hashem in prayer, we tremble in awe of the King of Kings.
The book of the Kuzari gives a historical explanation for 'shuckling.' He explains that shuckling originated during a period when there was a book shortage, and several people needed to study from the same book at the same time. To allow as many people as possible to study from one book, they would sway alternately back and forth. This allowed each person to look into the book and read a little bit, and when he swayed back, another person could sway forward and look into the book.
A valid alternative to shuckling is to stand completely still, like a soldier standing at attention in front of the king.
Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, zatzal, one of the foremost halachic authorities of our generation, was known to stand stock still during the silent prayer. He explained that, while living in Russia, he was once arrested for teaching Torah. One form of torture he experienced during his imprisonment was being forced to stand completely still facing a wall. The threat was that if he were to move he would be shot. It was on one of these occasions that Rabbi Feinstein was struck with the realization that if he could stand with such intense concentration for the sake of his captors, then he should afford at least the same respect when standing in front of Hashem.

Deciding whether to 'shuckle' or stand still depends on which one helps you concentrate better. In any case, a person shouldn't move his body or contort his face in any way that will make him look weird.

Zelhar · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2011, 03:02:27 PM »

"Chabad is the closest religion to Judaism" (the late rabbi Elazar Menachem Man Shach).

SharonD · « **Reply #10 on:** December 23, 2011, 03:03:11 PM »

First, we know ritual hand washing is not a "Chabadism". Nevertheless, netilat yadayim is primarily a hygienic cleaning, as opposed to mayim achronim which the sages identified more as a spiritual washing than as a hygienic one. Cleansing oneself of the "evil-spirit" is associated with the mayim achronim. In my mind, rabbinic ordinances are just that and, as such, are not commanded by G-d. That being said, I think a little soap during netilat yadayim would be promote hygiene.

Second, I didn't say shokeling is a "Chabadism". Anyone who has grown up frum knows this. But shokeling is not a competitive sport, which it appears to have become at Chabad. I never saw this as a kid in the old-style shuls and shtiebls.

muman613 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 23, 2011, 03:12:33 PM »

Quote from: SharonD on December 23, 2011, 03:03:11 PM

First, we know ritual hand washing is not a "Chabadism". Nevertheless, netilat yadayim is primarily a hygienic cleaning, as opposed to mayim achronim which the sages identified more as a spiritual washing than as a hygienic one. Cleansing oneself of the "evil-spirit" is associated with the mayim achronim. In my mind, rabbinic ordinances are just that and, as such, are not commanded by G-d. That being said, I think a little soap during netilat yadayim would be promote hygiene.

Second, I didn't say shokeling is a "Chabadism". Anyone who has grown up frum knows this. But shokeling is not a competitive sport, which it appears to have become at Chabad. I never saw this as a kid in the old-style shuls and shtiebls.

I detect a bit of disrespect of Chabad in your replies. You are entitled to think and feel as you wish, but I think you should be respectful of them for their good works in bringing many Jews back to Judaism. Nobody forced you to do things against your minhag, did they?

Here are some obvious non-Chabad Jews shuckling while davening at the Kotel:

Other Chassidim shuckling:

Jewish children davening:

Even Ethiopian Jews shuckle:

SharonD · « **Reply #12 on:** December 23, 2011, 03:25:37 PM »

Quote from: muman613 on December 23, 2011, 03:12:33 PM

I detect a bit of disrespect of Chabad in your replies. You are entitled to think and feel as you wish, but I think you should be respectful of them for their good works in bringing many Jews back to Judaism. Nobody forced you to do things against your minhag, did they?

Although I agree that Chabad has brought many back to the fold, I see an alarming trend of mindless observance and parroting others' rhetoric. Of course, Lubavitchers are not the only offenders of this. I use common sense in my approach to Judaism, and I am not a crowd follower. HaShem is my final judge.

I am a descendent of mitnagdim, so I will probably never see eye to eye with Hasidishe ways.

muman613 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 23, 2011, 03:27:45 PM »

Quote from: SharonD on December 23, 2011, 03:25:37 PM

Although I agree that Chabad has brought many back to the fold, I see an alarming trend of mindless observance and parroting others' rhetoric. Of course, Lubavitchers are not the only offenders of this. I use common sense in my approach to Judaism, and I am not a crowd follower. HaShem is my final judge.

I am a descendent of mitnagdim, so I will probably never see eye to eye with Hasidishe ways.

Well the Chabad houses I go to it is not that way... Most of those who go to their Chag and Shabbatons are mainstream Jews who have nowhere else to go for Jewish observance. Most are not Chabadniks who mindlessly follow the Chabad regime. I do know a couple of Chabadniks and they are some of the nicest Jews I know...

I am descended from Chassidim and while I honor all forms of Jewish observance I am partial to Chassidish ways. I grew up with only a Conservative Jewish education and after many years off the derek I did Teshuva about seven years ago... My family emigrated from Uman Ukraine in 1890s... Uman is where Rabbi Nachman was buried and the Breslov Chassidim still follow the Rebbe to this day...

Dr. Dan · « **Reply #14 on:** December 23, 2011, 07:03:01 PM »

Love what the chabadniks stand for

Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks · « **Reply #15 on:** December 23, 2011, 07:36:24 PM »

I am not Jewish but from all that I've seen and heard and experienced, they are very nice Jews.

JTFenthusiast2 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 23, 2011, 07:43:32 PM »

I love Chabad because they welcome all Jews into the fold who are lost or struggling. You are never alone with Chabad

Deer Man 420 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 23, 2011, 08:38:03 PM »

Whats is chabad? Can someone answer that for me? I never heard of them nor my family.

SharonD · « **Reply #18 on:** December 23, 2011, 08:54:27 PM »

Quote from: Deer Man 420 on December 23, 2011, 08:38:03 PM

Whats is chabad? Can someone answer that for me? I never heard of them nor my family.

Chabad is a hasiddic group which was founded in the small town of Lubavitch, Russia (I believe in the Ukraine/Poland, depending upon the war) by the Alter Rebbe (a/k/a R. Shneur Zalman). Chabad is very heavily committed to Jewish outreach. The word Chabad is the English acronym for chochmeh, binah, and da'at--the first three of the ten sefirot. This gets into Kabbalah, which is beyond my realm.
http://www.chabad.org/

Rubystars · « **Reply #19 on:** December 23, 2011, 09:07:00 PM »

I can't imagine not washing hands with soap and water before eating unless the food is wrapped well in plastic or thick paper where you hold it and you're not touching it. Then again after I got so-called "mild" pneumonia one time, I've been kind of paranoid about germs but I don't get sick very often either.

SharonD · « **Reply #20 on:** December 23, 2011, 09:09:23 PM »

Quote from: Rubystars on December 23, 2011, 09:07:00 PM

I can't imagine not washing hands with soap and water before eating unless the food is wrapped well in plastic or thick paper where you hold it and you're not touching it. Then again after I got so-called "mild" pneumonia one time, I've been kind of paranoid about germs but I don't get sick very often either.

Agreed wholeheartedly. And this is coming from someone who spends her weekends in and around barns!

Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks · « **Reply #21 on:** December 23, 2011, 09:16:50 PM »

Quote from: Rubystars on December 23, 2011, 09:07:00 PM

I can't imagine not washing hands with soap and water before eating unless the food is wrapped well in plastic or thick paper where you hold it and you're not touching it. Then again after I got so-called "mild" pneumonia one time, I've been kind of paranoid about germs but I don't get sick very often either.

I think more and more pathological science is coming around to the conclusion that it's good for our immune systems to get a regular workout.

Rubystars · « **Reply #22 on:** December 23, 2011, 09:25:44 PM »

Quote from: Axl Rose on December 23, 2011, 09:16:50 PM

I think more and more pathological science is coming around to the conclusion that it's good for our immune systems to get a regular workout.

Spending time outside, having a pet, etc. is giving your immune system a workout. Taking a dump, wiping yourself and then eating without proper handwashing is nasty in the extreme.

Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks · « **Reply #23 on:** December 23, 2011, 09:27:52 PM »

Quote from: Rubystars on December 23, 2011, 09:25:44 PM

Spending time outside, having a pet, etc. is giving your immune system a workout. Taking a dump, wiping yourself and then eating without proper handwashing is nasty in the extreme.

Well no I didn't advocate that...

SharonD · « **Reply #24 on:** December 23, 2011, 09:36:05 PM »

Okay, not to be gross, but last weekend I was trimming my horse's hooves and she took a dump on my shoulder. This happens every so often. Oh, and of course I kiss her, and I know she is full of equine e.coli. Sorry if this made anyone sick, but this is my life. I must have a hell of an immune system.