Anyone familiar with Yair Davidiy?

[muman613]

I don't want a theocratic government. I want a technically secular government that allows for free expression of religion in the society and public arena and for individual choice of faith.

Judaism discourages converts, right?  Is that the only way someone can be 'good' in your eyes? If they believe in your religion as the right one? Sounds an awful lot like the ancient mindset I was talking about earlier in some ways.

I support Israel, but I also think there's some very good things to be preserved in Western nations. I think Judaism should concern itself with Israel.

Judaism is a religion. We do believe that the entire world will know that Hashem is the creator of heaven and earth. We also believe that there are eternal enemies of our people, as I mentioned Esau, Ishmael, and Amalek.

We don't insist on everyone becoming Jewish. There is the Righteous Gentile who observes the seven Noachide commandments...

PS: The only reason we discourage converts is because we don't want to convert someone who will end up failing to keep the covenant, and thus be judged more harshly than they would have been judged had they not converted. Otherwise Judaism allows converts and has a favorable view toward them {consider the many commandments concerning the good treatment of converts}...

See : http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/205/Q1/

Before the giving of the Torah there was no strict legal definition of a Jew, because the law had not yet been given. This means that the people who came to Mt. Sinai were not Jews (in a legal sense) yet. In fact, the Revelation at Mt. Sinai can be viewed as a mass conversion to Judaism of millions of descendants of Abraham. In this sense, every Jew is descended from a convert; some go back to Sinai, and some later in history. The idea of conversion after Mt. Sinai is mentioned in the Torah itself and we are exhorted more than thirty times (!) not to oppress a convert. For instance, "And when a convert lives amongst you in your land do not oppress him. The convert shall be like one of your citizens and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the Land of Egypt..." (Leviticus 19:33-34)

[Rubystars]

Judaism is a religion. We do believe that the entire world will know that Hashem is the creator of heaven and earth. We also believe that there are eternal enemies of our people, as I mentioned Esau, Ishmael, and Amalek.

Ok. I just hope you don't think that if someone is loyal to the USA that that makes them your automatic enemy somehow. You've got me to wondering if the leftist Jews in the West might be using the concept you're discussing to justify their leftist activities in the West as undermining the enemy.

We don't insist on everyone becoming Jewish. There is the Righteous Gentile who observes the seven Noachide commandments...

Which I have no intention of ever following because I've got my own religion. I guess I'm bad to the bone. 

[muman613]

Ok. I just hope you don't think that if someone is loyal to the USA that that makes them your automatic enemy somehow. You've got me to wondering if the leftist Jews in the West might be using the concept you're discussing to justify their leftist activities in the West as undermining the enemy.

Which I have no intention of ever following because I've got my own religion. I guess I'm bad to the bone. 

I doubt Leftists Jews know anything about what I am talking about. And there is no desire of religious Jews to undermine America. But we must resist the negative influences such as the sexual immorality which is broadcast and displayed everywhere, the influences which make it hard to observe our holidays and our rituals, and the fear of being outcast because we don't believe what the majority of our peers believe.

Generally we look at it through the statement 'Esau hates Jacob'.... as this article discusses:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2665/jewish/Why-Does-Esau-Hate-Jacob.htm

http://www.torah.org/features/secondlook/antisem.html

http://www.torah.org/features/israelmatters/jewsdying.html

[Rubystars]

I've got to go to work but I'll read through it when I get home.

[muman613]

I've got to go to work but I'll read through it when I get home.

No problem Rubystar... This is not an argument... I am just trying to explain how the traditional Jewish religion explains our relationship with other nations... Of course according to my own understanding...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

How can the aryan nation and black hebros both be lost tribes.  I say we have those two groups duke it out.

BTW the original poster was banned

Lol amazing question.  And yes that should be a fight to the death in a roman colisseum with wild animals thrown in the mix.

[Lisa]

Rubystars, why are you making light of the mistreatment of Jews throughout the centuries in Europe?

And no, killing people who disagreed with certain church positions or who were secretly pagan is not same as repeatedly singling out entire communities of Jews, who were viewed as evil incarnate, for murder, expulsion or forced conversion.  Catholics were against Lutherans and vice versa.  But the position of both denominations was identical when it came to the Jews. 

I just can't believe what I read.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

The two comments posted on this thread by Dan Ben Noah reflect perfectly the Torah Jewish position.

In regard to bloodlines and lost tribes:

G-d's covenant with the tribes of Israel is governed by Torah, not bloodlines.  Even the question of who is a Jew is governed by Torah.  Therefore regardless of who the lost tribes are, they will only receive the inheritance promised to Israel if they attach themselves to the Torah.  If they became part of the surrounding peoples and no longer observe Torah then they are cut off from Israel regardless of who they descended from.

In regard to the Torah view of nations that have historically been hostile to the Jewish people:

Obviously if someone is from an Edomite nation but does not subscribe to the anti-Semitic aspects of their philosophy and actions, those people would not be considered an enemy of the Jews.  It's sort of like even though traditional black culture is evil, if blacks are upstanding human beings and don't subscribe to the violent, promiscuous, lazy ghetto culture, then they are not considered an enemy.  Yet there will always be people who say that just because we condemn anything that has to do with blacks, we're racists.

Now let me try to sum things up as simply as possible:

Righteous Jews of every color and ethnicity and righteous Gentiles of every color and ethnicity = Good

Evil Jews of every color and ethnicity and evil Gentiles of every color and ethnicity = Bad

[Rubystars]

Rubystars, why are you making light of the mistreatment of Jews throughout the centuries in Europe?

I'm definitely not doing that. I think DBF understood what I said best. Obviously anti-Semitism is evil and wrong and Europe does have a strong history of anti-Semitic sentiment. Sorry if my posts were confusing.

And no, killing people who disagreed with certain church positions or who were secretly pagan is not same as repeatedly singling out entire communities of Jews, who were viewed as evil incarnate, for murder, expulsion or forced conversion.  Catholics were against Lutherans and vice versa.  But the position of both denominations was identical when it came to the Jews. 

I just can't believe what I read.

Obviously a targeted genocide like that is on a different level of evil than brutality in general. I was just saying that the world in general (not just Europe) was an evil place toward Jews and others and in many places still is.

[Lisa]

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

[mord]

As intense as the rivalry is between Isaac and Ishmael (the Jews and the Arabs) they are only half brothers. Jacob and Esau are twins with the same genetic material. This rivalry (Israel and Rome/The West) is understood to be the ultimate rivalry in history. This is nothing less than a cosmic struggle. These two—Jacob and Esau—started fighting in utero, and they’re going to be fighting throughout history. The battle continues until today and does not end until the final showdown during the messianic era. It’s not an even battle ever. Esau will always be stronger in the physical sense, but the Jewish people have inner strengths, resources and a destiny that will ultimately lead to their triumph and humanity’s return to G-d.

  So in actuality the Jew and European are more genetically similar then the Jew and qurananimal

[mord]

Now let me try to sum things up as simply as possible:

Righteous Jews of every color and ethnicity and righteous Gentiles of every color and ethnicity = Good

Evil Jews of every color and ethnicity and evil Gentiles of every color and ethnicity = Bad

 

Yes this sounds right because the evil Jews asuch as Richie silverstein ,Phillip Weiss and a host of others are spiritually the erav ra or amalikites

[Rubystars]

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2665/jewish/Why-Does-Esau-Hate-Jacob.htm

I really thought that was an interesting article. If someone would have asked me which was stronger, evil or good, I probably would have said good, but it was interesting the way they described the intensity of hatred versus love, etc. and gave a possible explanation for why darkness exists. That's one reason I like reading things like that, it makes me think of things in different ways.

Maybe it does explain why some nations of people just seem to be particularly obssessed with hatred though, if there is some kind of generational curse on them.

http://www.torah.org/features/secondlook/antisem.html

That article reminds me of another thread I was in recently. I was discussing the fact that liberals in general do not recognize things like nationhood or separate peoples, but see themselves and other people as individuals, and as cosmopolitan "world citizens". It's as if they're unable to acknowledge Jewish rights because they're unable to acknowledge that a Jewish nation even exists as a distinct entity at all.

I agree that's why they rail against Israel as an "apartheid state", etc. because they think that any attempt to preserve one's own people and keep them separate is somehow wrong or evil. Most white liberals for example have already stabbed their own people in the back so they probably resent the fact that many Jewish people do still have a sense of group identity.

This makes the liberals/globalists anti-Semitic by default. Survival is a basic instinct and that includes survival of one's own people. Jewish people have that same fundamental right to self-preservation and I don't think liberals are very intelligent to try to pretend like differences between peoples are superficial. I think some of them hate Jews because Jews are a distinct group and the anti-Semites want to do everything they can to destroy them, not necessarily as individuals but as a group, as a nation, although most of them wouldnt' mind harming individual Jews either.

Jewish nationalism is a right wing concept, so left-leaning European Union types are automatically against it.

http://www.torah.org/features/israelmatters/jewsdying.html

I liked how that article talked about the important role that Jews are chaged with in raising civilization, etc. in spite of the hatred and resentment that they get. It's true that a lot of advances in science and modern law and other areas came from really smart Jewish people.

[Rubystars]

Thanks Dan and Chaim for adding your thoughts to the thread. I enjoyed reading both of your posts.

Also you're welcome Lisa. Sometimes when I go off on a tangent following a point I can get a little unclear and I don't want anyone to misunderstand me.