Author Topic: Shalom (Read 9145 times)

Dan Ben Noah · « **on:** April 12, 2012, 06:59:13 PM »

Shalom

muman613 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 12, 2012, 07:23:54 PM »

And people wonder why I am not so happy with Christianity... I know people will claim that these are not 'real Christians' but Im sure that they consider themselves to be as real as can be. These churches are jealous of the Jewish people and had hoped they we would have been wiped out in the Holocaust. But the fact that we are alive makes them livid. These so-called Christians are a blight on the world and they are preventing the world from the blessings which Hashem will bestow with the coming of Moshiach. Their belief in a false G-d and a false messiah makes them just as bad as idol worshippers.

I am sure that my heart will be full of awe and reverence of Hashem when he dashes these unbelievers heads against the rocks...

PS: My anger is not directed toward those righteous Christians who understand the place of the Jewish people in the world today. I am willing to agree to disagree on theology in order to confront the true physical enemies of the Jewish people.

Lisa · « **Reply #2 on:** April 12, 2012, 07:39:43 PM »

These people are scum and disgusting dhimmis!

Ephraim Ben Noach · « **Reply #3 on:** April 12, 2012, 07:53:44 PM »

I don't know why the heck some Chirstians think Jews need to convert. They already fulfill the law, Jesus came to give the law(the OT) to the Gentile so they could fulfill it. Anyone have a good translation of Matthew 5:17?

I'm probably going to get hammered for this, but I don't care.

nessuno · « **Reply #4 on:** April 12, 2012, 08:02:22 PM »

Quote from: muman613 on April 12, 2012, 07:23:54 PM

And people wonder why I am not so happy with Christianity... I know people will claim that these are not 'real Christians' but Im sure that they consider themselves to be as real as can be. These churches are jealous of the Jewish people and had hoped they we would have been wiped out in the Holocaust. But the fact that we are alive makes them livid. These so-called Christians are a blight on the world and they are preventing the world from the blessings which Hashem will bestow with the coming of Moshiach. Their belief in a false G-d and a false messiah makes them just as bad as idol worshippers.

I am sure that my heart will be full of awe and reverence of Hashem when he dashes these unbelievers heads against the rocks...

PS: My anger is not directed toward those righteous Christians who understand the place of the Jewish people in the world today. I am willing to agree to disagree on theology in order to confront the true physical enemies of the Jewish people.

Who cares about your anger or needs your approval? Do not associate all Christians with this bunch of crazies. Things are right in the world now. Not being called an idol worshiper in every other thread was throwing me off.

Rubystars · « **Reply #5 on:** April 12, 2012, 08:13:40 PM »

This lame argument reminds me of how liberals say that blacks can't be racist because they don't control the institutions, even though one of them is president.

Quote

basic summary of the "March madness" that was Christ at the Checkpoint: Jews rejected Jesus so all forms of terror must be supported against the Jews,

Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Basically this means move on and let G-d deal with the situation and worry about judgments and all of that, but don't harass them further once someone knows about and rejects the gospel.

The NT doesn't say to hurt anyone who rejects Jesus.

Quote

and therefore there is no such thing as anti-Semitism.

The fact that they are specifically levelling this charge against Jews and not all nonbelievers in general seems to indicate to me that they most definitely ARE very anti-Semitic.

Funny how they don't say there's no such thing as being anti-Muslim just because Muslims don't believer in the NT.

Quote

The New Testament replaced the Torah so now the Quran must be followed in the Holy Land.

Everything I've ever heard growing up says the Torah is canon Holy Scripture. Also the Muslims believe that the Qu'ran replaced the NT. Saying that the Qu'ran is correct in any way, then they must reject Christianity too because Muslims believe that both Judaism and Christianity are obsolete religions.

Quote

Despite the fact that Israel is the safest place in the Middle East for Christians and Israel allows Christians to congregate just to bash Jews, it is Jews, not Islam, who are responsible for Christians being attacked by Muslims in Muslim countries, and it is Jews who are responsible for Muslims not accepting Christianity.

Typical anti-Semites blame Jews for everything.

Quote

Since Jews are not living up to Christians' very reasonable expectations that they give up their religion, their land, and their lives, Jews are labeled "the impossible people".

Wow what arrogance.

muman613 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 12, 2012, 08:26:11 PM »

Quote from: bullcat3 on April 12, 2012, 08:02:22 PM

Who cares about your anger or needs your approval? Do not associate all Christians with this bunch of crazies. Things are right in the world now. Not being called an idol worshiper in every other thread was throwing me off.

Lots of people care bullcat3.... More than you can imagine...

I certainly don't approve of these pukes... If you think of defending them that is your own decision..

If you read what I said you will see that I don't have a problem with Christians who are true to the core belief in G-d and his Chosen people.

Quote

These so-called Christians are a blight on the world and they are preventing the world from the blessings which Hashem will bestow with the coming of Moshiach. Their belief in a false G-d and a false messiah makes them just as bad as idol worshippers.

.
.
PS: My anger is not directed toward those righteous Christians who understand the place of the Jewish people in the world today. I am willing to agree to disagree on theology in order to confront the true physical enemies of the Jewish people.

My problem which you seem to have an issue with, is that these people support the enemies of the Jewish people and make slander in the name of their misguided religion. And I have every right to feel the way I do. When I read the slander and lies which these so-called religious people level against my people. You will never understand it because you are not Jewish. My family was persecuted in Ukraine and had to leave before the pogroms which devastated eastern European Jewry at the turn of the century.

And at this point don't ever expect me to show you compassion... Your constant attempt to paint me as a Christian hater is getting old and tired..

Let me put you on the spot BC3.... Do you believe that the Jewish people are still G-ds chosen people? Do we have a right to live in our promised and Holy land?

muman613 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 12, 2012, 08:54:50 PM »

And I must clarify that I have no issue with Christians who have no problem with Jews. So long as they do not paint us as G-d killers, as long as they don't paint us as satanic, as long as they don't consider our holy books to be of the devil... I have no problem with the majority of Christians I work with each and every day.

I certainly have issues with those who see Jews as an obstacle for world peace. These are the only ones who I will speak out against... An example would be Mel gibson {yemach shemo}...

nessuno · « **Reply #8 on:** April 12, 2012, 08:59:56 PM »

Quote from: muman613 on April 12, 2012, 08:54:50 PM

And I must clarify that I have no issue with Christians who have no problem with Jews. So long as they do not paint us as G-d killers, as long as they don't paint us as satanic, as long as they don't consider our holy books to be of the devil... I have no problem with the majority of Christians I work with each and every day.

I certainly have issues with those who see Jews as an obstacle for world peace. These are the only ones who I will speak out against... An example would be Mel gibson {yemach shemo}...

I don't need your compassion.
I don't need your P.S., that is just to C.Y.A.
I don't defend sick animals of any kind.
I don't have to explain my support of Jewish people to you.
That is a silly question. How does it put me on the spot? I support the Jewish people more than you do. Otherwise, you wouldn't try to drive good Christians, off the forum, away from supporting the goals of JTF.

Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks · « **Reply #9 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:03:43 PM »

So, how do you feel about Zionist Christians, who consider themselves to be "the real Christians" also? Are we just naive and misguided and fake Christians because we aren't anti-Semites?

nessuno · « **Reply #10 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:04:30 PM »

Mel Gibson is a sick animal. No right thinking person would support him.

You have no problem with the idol worshipers you work with? That's big of you.

Quote from: muman613 on April 12, 2012, 08:54:50 PM

And I must clarify that I have no issue with Christians who have no problem with Jews. So long as they do not paint us as G-d killers, as long as they don't paint us as satanic, as long as they don't consider our holy books to be of the devil... I have no problem with the majority of Christians I work with each and every day.

I certainly have issues with those who see Jews as an obstacle for world peace. These are the only ones who I will speak out against... An example would be Mel gibson {yemach shemo}...

muman613 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:21:32 PM »

Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on April 12, 2012, 09:10:58 PM

Guys, remember, there was another article today where Christians United for Israel put up a billboard that says "Stand With Israel". There's no reason for hard feelings when we are among Jews and Christians who all support Israel. Plus, if you start attacking each other, I may not be able to post articles like this anymore for fear of polarizing the forum by religion, and I should be able to post them on a forum like this because anti-Semitism should be exposed in all its forms.

My problem is with Jew hating Christians who apply a form of Christian antisemitism. Both Gibson and these animals share this theological view. This particular form of antisemitism has caused more Jewish hardship than can be explained...

I am sorry Dan that this is what is coming from this post. I had no intention of upsetting any forum members. I would have expected that non-Jews would be more understanding of this and would apologize for those who have made the offense {those Christians who slander Judaism in the name of religion}.

Anyone interesting in understanding this form of antisemitism should read : http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=264:anti-semitism-the-persecution-of-G-d-and-his-chosen-people&catid=112:book-reviews&Itemid=510

http://www.aish.com/jl/h/cc/48951151.html

http://www.shemayisrael.com/publicat/hazon/tzedaka/antisemitism.htm

cjd · « **Reply #12 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:26:53 PM »

Quote from: muman613 on April 12, 2012, 08:54:50 PM

And I must clarify that I have no issue with Christians who have no problem with Jews. So long as they do not paint us as G-d killers, as long as they don't paint us as satanic, as long as they don't consider our holy books to be of the devil... I have no problem with the majority of Christians I work with each and every day.

I certainly have issues with those who see Jews as an obstacle for world peace. These are the only ones who I will speak out against... An example would be Mel gibson {yemach shemo}...

Have mercy

The problem with you muman is you lump all the so called Christians into one boat

People don't like to be placed into a picture where they don't belong... Half hearted disclaimers after your fire and brimstone posts do little good...

nessuno · « **Reply #13 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:29:15 PM »

Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on April 12, 2012, 09:10:58 PM

Guys, remember, there was another article today where Christians United for Israel put up a billboard that says "Stand With Israel". There's no reason for hard feelings when we are among Jews and Christians who all support Israel. Plus, if you start attacking each other, I may not be able to post articles like this anymore for fear of polarizing the forum by religion, and I should be able to post them on a forum like this because anti-Semitism should be exposed in all its forms.

You are 100% correct!
Antisemitism should be exposed in all its forms.
I have no problem with the article you posted.
There should be no hard feelings when we are among Jews and Christians who all support Israel, is exactly my point.
If I find being called an 'idol worshiper' offensive, you can bet your bottom dollar it will turn away newer Christians to the forum. I believe in G-d. I do not worship idols. Period.
Muman needs to stick to explaining the faith he practices and understands best. His derogatory comments about Christians is detrimental to the forum.
I agree with CJD. I don't want to be lumped in with crazy people of any faith.

muman613 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:30:51 PM »

Quote from: cjd on April 12, 2012, 09:26:53 PM

Have mercy The problem with you muman is you lump all the so called Christians into one boat People don't like to be placed into a picture where they don't belong... Half hearted disclaimers after your fire and brimstone posts do little good...

I did not make a blanket statement about all Christians. As I pointed out in my reply to Bullcat3 I was referring specifically to those Christians who proclaim that Jews are despised by G-d and that we are 'of the devil'. In the past I related how a childhood friend one day told me that I was going to Hell because I didn't believe in his 'savior'... I have heard this story from other Jews also, so it must not have been a singular occurrence.

I will again apologize if I was misunderstood. I do not feel this way about Christians who are willing to learn and grow and accept the Jewish people as they are {not wanting to 'convert' us}.

muman613 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:31:56 PM »

Quote from: bullcat3 on April 12, 2012, 09:29:15 PM

You are 100% correct!
Antisemitism should be exposed in all its forms.
I have no problem with the article you posted.
There should be no hard feelings when we are among Jews and Christians who all support Israel, is exactly my point.
If I find being called an 'idol worshiper' offensive, you can bet your bottom dollar it will turn away newer Christians to the forum. I believe in G-d. I do not worship idols. Period.
Muman needs to stick to explaining the faith he practices and understands best. His derogatory comments about Christians is detrimental to the forum.
I agree with CJD. I don't want to be lumped in with crazy people of any faith.

Where did I call you an idol worshiper? I said those Christians who proclaim that Jews are despised by G-d are idol worshipers. They are worshiping the idol of Islam and align themselves with Amalek himself.

muman613 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:33:43 PM »

Quote from: bullcat3 on April 12, 2012, 08:59:56 PM

I don't need your compassion.
I don't need your P.S., that is just to C.Y.A.
I don't defend sick animals of any kind.
I don't have to explain my support of Jewish people to you.
That is a silly question. How does it put me on the spot? I support the Jewish people more than you do. Otherwise, you wouldn't try to drive good Christians, off the forum, away from supporting the goals of JTF.

bc3, you are excedingly irrational. You are the one who started with the personal attacks. You are also very rude at times.

I am not driving Christians away from the forum.... I have actually brought several Christians to read this forum..

PS: Your little games are amusing..

Rubystars · « **Reply #17 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:34:15 PM »

Quote from: muman613 on April 12, 2012, 08:54:50 PM

And I must clarify that I have no issue with Christians who have no problem with Jews. So long as they do not paint us as G-d killers, as long as they don't paint us as satanic, as long as they don't consider our holy books to be of the devil... I have no problem with the majority of Christians I work with each and every day.

As long as I can keep my head firmly attached to my body.

Quote

I certainly have issues with those who see Jews as an obstacle for world peace. These are the only ones who I will speak out against... An example would be Mel gibson {yemach shemo}...

The Christians on this forum are against that too.

muman613 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:35:50 PM »

Quote from: Rubystars on April 12, 2012, 09:34:15 PM

As long as I can keep my head firmly attached to my body.

The Christians on this forum are against that too.

Rubystars... You have always been a voice of reason. Did you take my comment as an attack on all Christians. I was very clear to specify those who I have disdain for. I am surprised BC is attacking me instead of addressing the vile drek which these animals are spouting in the name of your religion. Will you speak out against it?

muman613 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:39:14 PM »

It is sad that it is easier for non-Jews to beat up on a Jew who speaks out against this kind of hatred than to address the hatred and cease it. Jews don't go around worrying about what Christians think of us. But it appears that when a nerve is struck, by making the diecide blood libel against us, that everyone piles on the Jew who has every right to feel anger at those who have oppressed my people.

Sometimes I wonder what some of you are doing supporting a people who you have no pity on.

Have the Jewish people EVER oppressed the Christians? In all of history? I do not think so...

cjd · « **Reply #20 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:45:33 PM »

Quote from: muman613 on April 12, 2012, 09:30:51 PM

I did not make a blanket statement about all Christians. As I pointed out in my reply to Bullcat3 I was referring specifically to those Christians who proclaim that Jews are despised by G-d and that we are 'of the devil'. In the past I related how a childhood friend one day told me that I was going to Hell because I didn't believe in his 'savior'... I have heard this story from other Jews also, so it must not have been a singular occurrence.

I will again apologize if I was misunderstood. I do not feel this way about Christians who are willing to learn and grow and accept the Jewish people as they are {not wanting to 'convert' us}.

There are Christian groups that do hold to policy like that but to be honest I can't say I have ever heard it from any clergy I have come into contact with... Personally I have less use for proselytizers of that sort than even you do.

muman613 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:51:22 PM »

Also I will add that it is not a Jews place to tell a non-Jew what to believe concerning the nature of our Creator. Aside from pushing the seven Noachide laws we don't proselytize. As long as our neighbors treat us respectfully and do not start wars with us, we can live in peace with anyone.

What is in a mans heart is his business, and his Creators business, but it is not mine. So long as I don't go around claiming that if you don't believe in this or that that you will go to hell {unless the person is a Jew, who we must rebuke}. The nations of the world are supposed to believe in the ONE G-d but it is not our responsibility to make them believe anything. We are a people who strive to set an example which others will attempt to emulate.

I have no anger at any JTF member {aside from one who has made this a personal issue}. I am willing to move forward and give the benefit of the doubt to everyone {unless they have demonstrated Jew hatred}. And I am surprised that my opinion caused so much problems for some.

I will attempt to leave this thread alone from now on because I feel that no matter how I explain myself some people will still find fault with my position. I feel I have not done anything wrong {except for maybe not being as clear as I can be concerning who I feel anger towards} and really do feel contempt for people who slander the Jewish people as the original article suggested.

muman613 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:52:04 PM »

Quote from: cjd on April 12, 2012, 09:45:33 PM

There are Christian groups that do hold to policy like that but to be honest I can't say I have ever heard it from any clergy I have come into contact with... Personally I have less use for proselytizers of that sort than even you do.

Thank Goodness you have a righteous congregation...

Ephraim Ben Noach · « **Reply #23 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:56:18 PM »

In Mumans defence, I have heard Chirstians say Jews are going to hell for not believing in the messiah. Jews have suffered through all of time, they have a right to be a little defensive.

Lisa · « **Reply #24 on:** April 12, 2012, 10:18:49 PM »

Like I posted earlier, those people are disgusting dhimmis and scum! And I don't care what they call themselves either.

They are truly evil and repugnant for siding with Muslim terrorists against Israeli Jews who never harmed them. I just don't understand where they're coming from. Do these people even care about the Copts being murdered in Egypt? Or how about that Iranian man who was sentenced to death for converting to Christianity? Or what about what happened in Nigeria?

Like Rubystars pointed out, how come they have nothing against Muslims, who believe Islam supersedes their religion?

Personally, I appreciate all the members here, Jewish, Christian, or Hindu. But when it comes to these crazies, the gloves come off.