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Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.

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Kahane-Was-Right BT:
Rambam was ahead of his time when he boldly declared, against the consensus of all types of scholars in his day, religious, philosophical, and "scientific" (however you can define that term in that age), that astrology was nonsense and idolatrous gobbledy gook (using my own terms here).   It was only many years later that the consensus of scholarship including scientists came to see that astrology was bogus and the world as a whole today considers it a fallacy.  Rambam was right on in seeing it for what it was.    Of course some disagree and still cling to it today even as its been discredited as a discipline in light of modern scientific standards.  There are certain aspects of the kabbalah/mysticism which draw on astrology and themes therein to make complex statements about Bible and correlations between verses etc.   

muman613:

--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on April 26, 2012, 01:13:29 AM ---Rambam was ahead of his time when he boldly declared, against the consensus of all types of scholars in his day, religious, philosophical, and "scientific" (however you can define that term in that age), that astrology was nonsense and idolatrous gobbledy gook (using my own terms here).   It was only many years later that the consensus of scholarship including scientists came to see that astrology was bogus and the world as a whole today considers it a fallacy.  Rambam was right on in seeing it for what it was.    Of course some disagree and still cling to it today even as its been discredited as a discipline in light of modern scientific standards.  There are certain aspects of the kabbalah/mysticism which draw on astrology and themes therein to make complex statements about Bible and correlations between verses etc.   

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This is your opinion and you are not understanding that Jewish understanding of Mazel is not intended to predict the future. In my understanding there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that everything in this universe, actually everything in creation, has influence on everything around it.

And as I have repeatedly shown in this thread, which you neglect to address, is that this does not come from 'Kabbalah' or the 'Zohar' as you imply. These ideas come straight from the Talmud and the Midrash, and these ideas have influences on many traditions and customs of the Jewish people.

Do you wonder where the phrase 'Mazel Tov' comes from? Do you even know what Mazel is?

This is not 'New Age' astrology where you look up your horoscope. The concept of Mazel is tied directly to the idea that every star has an influence on everything, just as the electron field of atoms have an influence on the nucleus.

Everyone who is disputing this immediately runs to Rambam but Rambam was not accepted in his time for trying to fit Judaism into a Greek Philosophy framework. Judaism is not RATIONAL as some here are trying to portray. What is meant by Rational? It is something which can be explained by rational logic, producing demonstrable results. Is it rational to believe that there is a reward in the afterlife? Is it rational to believe in the ressurrection of the dead? Is it rational to believe in Miracles?

How about the commandment of the Red Calf? Does it make sense to you? That there is impurity from a dead body? Why hasn't science discovered tumah {ritual impurity}? How does sprinkling of ashes on a person transfer the impurity from the impure to the pure? Im sure there is a rational explanation, isn't there?

Spiritual energy is not measurable by any science. The influence of the stars on people have been discussed by one of the greatest Rabbis, even Rabbi Akiva in the Talmud discusses astrology. And the lesson to the Jew is that while there is a natural cycle in the world, we are not subject to it.

Why Rambam had such a view? I cannot explain. Maybe it was because he was living in Spain where the Muslims were invading. Didn't Rambam live and serve as a doctor to a Muslim? Do you also agree with Rambam that there is nothing wrong with a Jew attending prayers in a Mosque since muslims also pray to the one deity? I don't agree with that, nor do many other sages...

It is predictable that some of you would not agree, but there is no need to be defensive about it.

muman613:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/361901/jewish/Angels-and-Mazalot.htm


--- Quote ---One of the most important factors in astrology is the time and date of a person’s birth. The Talmud states that there is a “Mazal of the hour.” The time, day, and date when a person is born has an important influence on his destiny. The stars in the sky also form an important link in G-d’s providence over the physical world. Between G-d and Man, there are many levels of interaction, the lowest being those between the angels and stars. The Midrash and Zohar state, “There is no blade of grass that does not have a “constellation”—Mazal—over it, telling it to grow.” This means that G-d’s providence works through the angels, but these angels in turn work through the stars and planets. In a sense, we could speak of the angels as souls to the stars. Some sources speak of the stars as having intelligence, but the commentaries note that this is actually speaking of the angels that are associated with them.

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The Torah states (Deuteronomy 18:10) “There shall not be found among you one who calculates times.” The Talmud, in the name of Rabbi Akiva, specifically applies this prohibition to one who calculates auspicious times, meaning that one should not make astrology a dominant influence in one’s daily life and predictions through astrology are forbidden. Therefore one should not use horoscopes to determine one’s future actions, though it is permitted to do character analyzes through astrology.

It is the prevalent custom that on a happy occasion such as a birth, one wishes “Mazal tov” indicating the wish that the planetary influence on the child should be a good one. Yet we are not slaves to the planets, as the Torah states, “You shall be perfect with the L-rd your G-d” (Deuteronomy 18:13). This means that the more we perfect our relationship with the spiritual dimension, the more G-d is going to aid us in changing the natural course of events. This makes any action based on astrological predictions needless. It states clearly in the Talmud that “Ein Mazal LeYisroel” or “there is no Mazal for the Jewish people.” This simply means that the Jewish people as a whole were lifted above the Mazalot by virtue of their receiving the Torah.
 
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--- Quote ---"Said Rabbi Simon: 'Every single blade of grass has a corresponding 'mazal' in the sky which hits it and tells it to grow." This statement is found in the Midrash Rabba, Bereshit 10:6.
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muman613:
http://www.campsci.com/iguide/rambam.htm

--- Quote ---
When one studies the Talmud, one finds the same topic scattered around in a dozen different places. The Rambam's genius was to put everything together in a logical and systematic order, and decide which opinion to follow, so that everything makes sense without having to consult the original sources. It was written in a clear, precise and concise Hebrew so that even present day scholars from all over the world study each and every word very carefully and derive important halachos from every word he writes.

Yet, as he later admits, he made a very big mistake by not quoting the sources that he had taken these halachos from. For this he would be strongly criticized. Some felt that one had no right to publish halachic opinions without giving the names of the people who said them and without giving the sources upon which they are based. Others were afraid that this would cause many to stop studying the original sources and only study the h conclusions. This type of study would destroy Torah scholarship and turn people into ignoramuses. Time has proven this argument to be false! The Talmud was never neglected, and in fact it was strengthened.

The debate became very heated and many Torah scholars became involved. The greatest opposition however, was against another one of the Rambam's works called the Moreh Nevuchim. This was a work that gave the Jewish outlook on many questions in philosophy. It was written in Arabic and later translated into Hebrew. It contained many thoughts that seemed based or resembled Aristotelian philosophy, which was heavily studied during those times. He wrote it for the many people who studied this type of philosophy from non-Jewish sources causing great harm to the reader. This book was not aimed at every reader, but only for those people who studied this type of philosophy.

Yet, this sefer caused great opposition to the Rambam and the controversy raged on with a terrible vengeance. There were great men pro and other great men against. Amongst the strongest opponents were Rabbi Meir Halevi Abulafia (author of Yad Ramah) and the R'aved (Rebbe Avrohom ben Dovid of Posquires, known as R'aved the third) whose critical comments can now be found printed on the Mishna Torah's side.

After the Rambam's death (in 1204, at the age of 70), the criticism became more vocal, violent and tragic as some began putting a rabbinical ban (a cherem ) on anyone studying his philosophical works-the Moreh Nevuchim. Of course, bans are a two way street and all it did was add fuel to the fire. As usual, people of lesser stature soon became involved and denounced his works to the monks at the Christian Church. The Dominican monks now confiscated all the Rambam's seforim and burned them at an auto-da-fe in Mordpilias in the year 1234. Eight years later the French Monks followed in their footsteps and burned all those found in France in the public square of Paris.

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By the way I like Rambam... I just don't agree with everything he says concerning everything...

muman613:
Here is a nice, concise, explanation of Mazel. This piece does not resort to any Zohar or Kabbalah and keeps to purely Talmudic sources...


http://www.marbitz.com/midrash/midrash_mazal.html

Midrash

Mazal: getting the straight goods

What exactly is mazal? How does it work? Most importantly: what effect does it have on our lives and aspirations?

Lets search Talmudic literature for some clarity.

We must carefully distinguish between two very different forces - both called "mazal" in Torah sources. One is mazal as an independent representative or guide attached to or associated with every human being, and the other is a blind, purely mechanical and natural influence (sometimes associated with astrology). Later we'll explore the possibility of a third "mazal" force.

Personal Mazal

Despite the general prohibition against carrying objects in public places on Shabbos, the Gemara does permit certain protective amulets (קמיעות) to be worn as long as they have already been proven effective (מומחה). Nevertheless, even among those known to help people, they remain forbidden as long as they aren't proven effective on animals as well:

"...But is there such a thing as (an amulet) that is proven for people but not for animals? Yes: perhaps a man, with his mazal, can be helped (by an amulet), while an animal, that has no mazal, cannot be helped." (Shabbos 53b)

"Mazal: a man's angel (מלאך) who represents him." (Rashi)

It would seem that the mere existence of this representative - which, by the way, does not seem to have any personal power - protects a person from damage even in circumstances that could kill an animal.

Similarly, a human being's personal mazal can protect him from violence as can be seen in Rashi's second approach to this Gemara:

"Why, concerning (causing damage to) people, does the Torah (Shemos 21:28) use the expression 'gore' (יגח), while concerning animals, it (ibid verse 35) uses 'push' (יגוף)? About a man, who has mazal, it writes 'gore' (but about an) animal, that has no mazal, it writes 'push'." (Bava Kama 2b)

"A man who has mazal: that he has the intelligence to protect himself...alternatively, he has mazal and thus it isn't so easy to kill him by simply being pushed with an animal's horn, unless he is gored directly and intentionally with the horn penetrating the body." (Rashi)

Besides being somehow responsible for his safety, a man's mazal can also represent him in the spiritual world. As an example, the Gemara tells us that the Jews, once they stood at Mt. Sinai and received the Torah, were able to shed something called "zuhama". But what about those who converted to Judaism only later? How do we explain the absence of "zuhama" even among converts and their descendants?

"Rav Acha the son of Rava said to Rav Ashi...'even though (converts) were not present at Mt. Sinai, their mazal was." Shabbos (146a)

"Concerning Jews one could always (explain their absence of zuhama) by observing that even if their bodies were not at Mt. Sinai [i.e, those who were not yet born], their souls were already bound in the bundle of the living. But one can't say that of converts [as, presumably, they are given new souls upon conversion]. So it must be that their mazal was there (at Mt. Sinai)." (Meharsha)

This mazal-representative can also subtly link us to spiritual events and influences that we might otherwise entirely miss:

"'And I, Daniel, myself saw this vision but the men with me did not see the vision, but a great fear fell upon them and they ran and hid.' (Daniel 10:7) ...Since (the others) did not see (the vision), why were they frightened? Even though they didn't see it, their mazal saw it. Ravina said, 'from here we can learn that a person who is frightened, even if he can't see anything, his mazal sees.'" (Megila 3a)

"Their mazal: each man's officer (שר) above." (Rashi)

Mazal's protective strength is affected by a person's own spiritual level:

"Rabbi Yossi the son of Rabbi Chanina said: 'this (that a wine wholesaler is not responsible for post-sale product spoilage) was only true if the wine was transferred to the buyer's jugs. But if it (spoiled while still) in the wholesaler's jugs, (the buyer) can claim 'here is your wine and here are your jugs [i.e., take them back and refund me]...But this conflicts with (the opinion of) Rav Chiya bar Yosef that wine (spoilage) is caused by its owner's mazal, as it says (Chabakuk 2:5) 'For wine betrays an arrogant man.'" (Bava Basra 98a)

"The arrogance of a man who prides himself with qualities that aren't his, causes his wine to betray him: people will think it is wine but it will be found to be nothing more than vinegar, measure for measure." (Rashi)

In other words, Rav Chiya bar Yosef's position is that the nature of mazal-influence can change - for better or for worse - according to a man's behavior and attitudes. It should be noted that Tosafos (Bava Basra 96b "ושמואל אמר") limits this effect to reasonably predictable phenomena, but maintains that a man's behavior cannot force his mazal to cause wholly miraculous changes in nature.

Mazal can be changed due to a person's physical circumstances. The Gemara relates a remarkable story about a messenger of the Angel of Death who accidentally "collected" the wrong woman. The angel was asked:

"How are you able to keep her here (before her time - rather than sending her back to earth to live out the rest of her alloted time)? (The Angel answered:) she was holding a hot poker in her hand while cleaning out her oven and it (fell) on her foot and she was burned, weakening her mazal." (Chagiga 5a)

Even the level of a person's confidence can affect the strength of his mazal:

"Someone who wants to embark on a journey and wants to know if he will return or not, should stand in a friend's house. If he sees his double shadow he should know that he will return. However, this isn't so: perhaps he will be upset and weaken his mazal." (Horiyos 12a)

"This isn't so: Because sometimes, even though there is no double shadow, he might return anyway. Nevertheless one should not perform this test because perhaps he will not see the shadow and become upset and his mazal will weaken and that might cause him not to return - and if he had not performed this test his mazal might never have weakened..." (Rashi)

"Because the Satan accuses (more vigorously) at a time of danger - like on a journey - and any little thing which can upset a person can (sufficiently) weaken his mazal (and provoke damage)." (ספר באר שבע)

Mazal as a blind, mechanical force of nature (astrology)

While God may certainly intervene at will, Chazal seemed to observe natural forces that, if left alone, would produce predictable effects on human beings and their environment. The Gemara (Brachos 59a), for instance, notes that the flood only began when God removed two stars from one constellation and only ended when He took two different stars from another constellation to fill the gap in the first. The implication is that the continued influence of the original stars, had they not been moved, would have ensured stable conditions.

Whether this influence is absolute or whether people - or at least Jews - can somehow escape its effects, would seem to be a debate between Rabbi Chanina (and others including Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi) and Rabbi Yochanan (along with a rather long list of like-minded sages including Rabbi Akiva) in the Gemara Shabbos (156a-156b).

"It was said: Rabbi Chanina says, 'Mazal causes wisdom, mazal causes wealth and mazal has an (inescapable) effect on Israel.' Rabbi Yochanan said, 'Mazal does not have an (inescapable) effect on Israel.'"
"Mazal causes wealth: because mazal is wisdom as was said (above) that (one born under the influence of) the sun will be bright and wise and (thus) mazal has an (inescapable) effect on Israel so that their prayers and charity cannot change it." (Rashi)

"Mazal does not have an (inescapable) effect on Israel: That through prayer and merits, mazal can be changed for the good." (Rashi)

The Gemara offers no obvious resolution to this debate. And even according to Rabbi Yochanan (who taught that the effects of mazal can be avoided), there are still limits to our self-determination:

"Rava said: '(maintaining) life, (and acquiring) children and sustenance do not depend on (a person's) merits but on his mazal..." (Moed Katan 28a)

"...That which the Gemara in Shabbos says 'mazal does not have an (inescapable) effect on Israel' (can be explained by saying) that sometimes (mazal) can change... (through some remarkable merit) but in a case like that of Rabbi Elazer ben Padas (Taanis 25a) it might not change at all..." (Tosafos אלא במזלא)

The mazal of nature also seems bound to natural cycles (This would also seem to be as clear an indication as any other that "mazal" has no power or free choice of its own, but is purely unconscious and mechanical.):

"Why should one not (have blood drawn) on Tuesdays? Because (the constellation) 'maadim' is in (the part of the sky dominated by) 'zavui'. (Why should that be a factor, after all) 'maadim is also in 'zavui' on Fridays (and we do have blood drawn then)? Since so many people ignore that risk, (we can apply the verse) 'God protects fools'(Tehilim 116:6)" (Shabbos 129b)

"Mazal maadim controls violence, plague and catastrophes and astrological confluences (involving maadim) invite demonic interference..." (Rashi)

And not only weekly cycles...

"Rav Papa said: Therefore, a Jew who faces legal proceedings involving a non-Jew should delay (any court appearance until after) the month of Av because his mazal is weak..." (Ta'anis 29b)

"As was mentioned previously: 'moral debts (naturally) find themselves paid up on a day of moral debt.'" (Tosafos)

Additionally, Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi associated the influence of mazal with the day of a man's birth while Rabbi Chanina considered his birth-hour more decisive (Shabbos 156a).

The Rambam

Against this background let's take a look at the Rambam:

"In the days of Enosh humans made a great mistake and the generation's wise men gave foolish advice - and Enosh was among those in error. This was their error: they said 'since God created these stars and constellations to guide the world and (He) placed them in the heavens and honored them and they serve those who serve before Him, it is fit to praise and exalt and honor the stars themselves'." (משנה תורה פ"א עכו"ם ה"א)

The Rambam here possibly bases himself on passages in Chazal like Brachos 59a (which describes the stars' role in the onset and completion of the flood). He clearly identifies "guiding the world" as one of the stars' functions. However, we must be careful not to exaggerate his position.

Here's what he wrote near the end of the laws of idolatry:

"And anyone who acts in response to astrology and times his activities or journeys according to times determined by those who examine the stars, receives lashes..."
(משנה תורה פי"א עכו"ם הל' ט)

In adding further context to the various prohibitions of the chapter, Rambam concludes:

"And these things are all lies and falsehood which were used by early idolaters to mislead nations thereby to follow their (idolatrous) paths. And it isn't appropriate for Israel - who are a wise people - to be drawn after such foolishness and to even consider that there is any benefit to (these activities)...And anyone who believes these things or anything like them and thinks in his heart that they are true and wise except that the Torah forbids them, is certainly ranked among the fools and idiots..." (משנה תורה פי"א עכו"ם הל' ט"ז)

So, while the Rambam does accept that stars do exert some influence on nature, he clearly rejects any connection between them and the conduct of human society. This distinction is made much more clearly in Rambam's letter to the rabbis of Marseilles in which, while debunking the authenticity of astrology, he outlines the position common to all "philosophers":

"The general principle which they will all espouse is that all events involving people, animals, minerals or trees are all random. But the elements and all that is lifeless in the entire (physical) world all came to be through the the power of the constellations and stars which essentially came from God."

(see http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/mahshevt/mekorot/igeret-2.htm)

Rambam then writes that Torah belief differs with the philosophers only in that human events are not random, but are the result of Divine providence. They would all agree, however, that the stars have no influence on human life.

Now this most certainly seems to fly in the face of many of the quotations from Chazal we've referenced above. The Rambam was well aware of this problem and addressed it towards the end of his letter to Marseilles:

"Our opinion on this has always been that all astrology is false (in the eyes of) all men of science. And I know that it is possible you will search and find individual opinions among our rabbis, the sages of Truth of blessed memory, in the Talmud and Mishna and Midrash, that their words appear to show that the stars have such and such an influence at the moment of a man's birth. Do not consider this a problem, for (just as) it isn't appropriate to abandon practical halacha to chase after (obscure) challenges and responses. So too, it is not appropriate for a man to leave intelligent matters whose proofs have already been confirmed, and shake them from his sleeves to accept instead the words of one minority opinion from among the sages...for it is possible that (those words which seemed to validate astrology) were really only meant as a hint to some profound (Torah truth)."

The Third "Mazal"

Rabbi Meir, in the final Mishna of mesechte Kiddushin, teaches that a person should make every reasonable effort to find success in a trade...

"...and then pray to the One to Whom belongs all wealth and to Whom belongs all property. For there is no trade in which is not found both poverty and wealth, for poverty does not come from (a man's) trade and wealth does not come from (a man's) trade. Rather, everything flows from (a man's) merit (זכותו)."
 
Tosafos (Kiddushin 82a), while commenting on the Mishna, wrote

"Rather, everything flows from (a man's) merit: meaning, according to his mazal, for 'children, life and provisions do not depend on merit, but on mazal'."

But why, wondered the Tiferes Yisrael (echoing questions of the Tosafos Yom Tov), would Tosafos attribute wealth to mazal rather than merit (besides the fact that mazal and merit are quite distinct from each other): if mazal determines a man's financial fate, then why bother praying?

To this, the Tiferes Yisrael offers a creative solution. The term used by the Mishna (זכותו) doesn't actually mean "merit", but rather, its more common Talmudic translation: "possession" or "rights" (example: "<יש לו זכות בו"). In this case, the Mishna means to teach us that, besides prayer, our financial success or failure largely depends on the peculiar combination of circumstances into which God decreed each of us be born (that which can truly be said to be "ours"). After all, so much of a person's success does depend on his background and social standing. So, for instance, influences like one's inborn nature, family, environment, diet and education all play significant roles in his future chances at success.

This, of course, has nothing to do with any astrological influences (Tiferes Yisrael firmly follows the Rambam's approach), but is a direct result of God's specific plan for each human being. And, as did Tosafos, it is therefore quite reasonable to characterize it as mazal.

The Bottom Line

While it seems clear that our connection to the spiritual world is sometimes characterized by Chazal as "mazal", this knowledge would seem to have few, if any, practical applications - beyond the general need to care for our own physical safety and spiritual wellbeing.

It is certainly necessary to steadfastly avoid astrological advice - whether because Torah law forbids it or, according to Rambam, because common sense should guide us away from foolishness. Either way, in our search for financial success, there would seem to be very little room in Judaism for reliance on anything besides trust in God and hard work (in that order).

And we can take comfort in the knowledge that a great many of the crucial elements which will determine our success were given to us by our all-knowing and most-kind God.

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