Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
To Whom Qabala May Concern — The Authenticity of the Zohar –Update 02
Zelhar:
--- Quote from: muman613 on May 20, 2012, 02:45:26 PM ---If this is the case then I apologize, because all I have learned is that the Shulchan Aruch is the 'Code of Law' for all Jews. Even Breslov claims it keeps the Shulchan Aruch...
Here from a Breslev site:
http://www.breslovtorah.com/breslov/
--- End quote ---
Some of the sfaradim go according to the system of Ben Ish Hai and in some cases this system rules according to Kabbalah and against Shulchan Aruch And Harambam.
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: muman613 on May 20, 2012, 02:44:11 PM ---
When he makes sweeping claims about various beliefs of Judaism, such as a hypothetical family which doesn't support his kids yet goes to Uman as a way to slander the entire group... And saying that those who have faith that includes Kabbalistic ideas are not Zionists, when my eyes and ears see otherwise... That, in my opinion, is slander.
--- End quote ---
He never said everyone, he gave examples of which such beliefs produce.
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: Zelhar on May 20, 2012, 02:55:48 PM ---Some of the sfaradim go according to the system of Ben Ish Hai and in some cases this system rules according to Kabbalah and against Shulchan Aruch And Harambam.
--- End quote ---
The Shulhan Aruch itself has some problems when it includes Kabbalistic things. For example Tefillin during Hol Hamoed when before the advent of the zohar it was ruled to wear it during Hol Hamoed, yett the Kabbalists changed the standing Halacha because of something mentioned in the zohar.
http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/list-audio-shiurim/35-hagim/320-wearing-tphilllin-during-hol-hamoedh-the-intermediate-days-of-the-festival
Both Talmudhim indicate that one is to wear T'philllin during Hol HaMo'edh.
The Rif, Rambam, Rosh and Tur all agree that the misswah applies even during Succoth and Pesah. The Shulhan Arukh says otherwise, contrary to his own rule of thumb. He was influenced by the Zohar. A classic and telling example of the influence of Qabbala on Halakhic practice.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on May 20, 2012, 02:51:05 PM ---Muman I will respond to what you highlighted from the article
"For example: Would people who cannot properly provide for their children somehow find the money to fly to Uman one, two and three times a year were it not for the Qabalistic significance that they attach to such a trip?"
You don't see this as a problem? Going to Uman, especially while being close to broke is very problematic not to mention leaving Israel to go to the exile (Ukraine). Other Rabbis including Rav Mordechi Eliyahu, Rav Ovadia yosef and others (including Askeansi Rabbis) not just Rav Bar Hayim talk against these things. leaving Israel to travel to the Ukrain. Are their no graves of Holy Tzaddikim in Israel? On top of that with this example you brough their are fathers who cannot provide for their children yett they travel to Uman. you don't see that as a problem? And even if they have $, why leave Israel to go there? Why not spend Rosh Hashana with the family the way it is suppoed to be?
Judaism has, for many, been turned into a circus, an orgy of primitive superstitions.
Read what was said right before that and what exactly he is referring to. I won't requote it for space. Just reread it. You don't see a problem with all these things like "Kabbalah candles", red strings, Kabbalah water (Yes it exists) and other such shtuyot.
The most glaring example is the criminal passivity and delusional attitude towards Redemption that is evident wherever Qabala thrives. In this sense, Qabala and Zionism are diametrically opposed, and to the extent that Judaism in general was influenced by such thinking, particularly over the last 5 centuries,
the zohar (written in the Galut) is VERY passive. People generally bring statements from the Zohar that are completly passive and not encouraging an active role to the redemption. For example Temple falling from the heavens, or even when against the Arabs thngs like G-D shaking the Ishmaelim like the crumbs from a table. These are midrashic statements and people (I have seen this over and over again) bring these things as statments encouraging passivity. G-D will do this or that, not us.
--- End quote ---
I understand that there are Rabbis who are against going to Uman, though most do not have a problem with it. But to offer just a supposed example when the question can be asked does this regularly happen? I know people who go to Uman and yet they take care of their children, and most of Breslov Chassidim do take very good care of their kids. Can we find examples of other families doing things which could be seen as at the expense of the children? Is this phenomenon really due to the Zohar or belief in Kabbalah or could it be because of other reasons?
I do not know any who believe in Kabbalah magic items... I have clearly rebuked those who buy into this 'new age' Kabbalah which doesn't stress the basics of Jewish belief of Tanakh and Talmud. There is no shortcut to learning Kabbalah and I say those who ascribe power to material objects clearly do not understand the Torah and Talmud.
And again... Regarding of all Jews who are Zionistic that I know, almost all believe in some aspects of Kabbalah.
And I will again say that it is not important to me to push Kabbalah. I am simply defending the beliefs of what I consider to be good Jews, Jews who will stand up for Israel.
And regarding the comment about the Temple coming from heaven. That idea DOES NOT come from the Zohar but the Talmud.
I found this via this page @ http://www.shortvort.com/tetzaveh-parasha/11097-who-will-build-the-3rd-beis-hamikdash
This article explains how to reconcile the two beliefs, whether we have to build it, or whether it will be built by Hashem and fall from Shamayim...
--- Quote ---The gemarra reveals that Nissan is one of the two months most appropriate for Moshiach’s arrival,[2] and elsewhere pinpoints the year after the Shemittah year to be the one most likely to witness Moshiach’s arrival[3] (that’s this year). Therefore, in order to at least know a bit about how the third beis hamidkash is going to arrive, and to be a bit prepared, we are writing this series. So here goes; as always, I recommend looking up each source I quote - especially in this mini-series. The order of play is as follows: first we will cite the opinion of Rashi (et al), then explain the opinion of the Rambam (answering a contradiction in the Rambam), and finally we explain what the root of this dispute is between Rashi and the Rambam via a golden explanation of the Maharam Shik. There seems to be a dispute as to how the third beis hamikdash will arrive. The opinion of Rashi,[4] Tosafos,[5] and the Ritva[6] all say that the third beis hamikdash will come down fully-built from Heaven; it is already built - it must just be ‘plonked down’ by HaShem onto Har Habayis (I look forward to the BBC reporting that one). The Rambam disagrees. He writes[7] that Moshiach will build the third beis hamikdash. In the Rambam’s (translated) words: ‘the melech hamoshiach will bring back the kingship of David to its former glory, and he will build the midkash and will gather in the exiles of Bnei Yisrael.’ However, though the Rambam certainly does seem to argue with Rashi’s (etc.) view, the opinion of the Rambam needs clarifying. For in two other places, the Rambam writes[8] that the obligation to build the mikdash is on the people of Bnei Yisrael.[9] So who is to build it according to the Rambam; the Moshiach or the people? The truth is that this same contradiction can be found in sources that pre-date the Rambam. Whilst the Midrash Rabbah[10] says that Moshiach will build the third beis hamikdash, the Talmud Yerushalmi[11] says that the people will build the midkash. How can we resolve the contradiction? The answer is a simple one. The Rambam (and the above sources) hold that Moshiach will command/oversee the building of the beis hamikdash, but the people will actually be the ones who build it.
So far so good. We have two opinions as to how the third mikdash will arrive: Rashi, Tosafos, and the Ritva hold that it will fall from Heaven, whilst the Rambam holds that Moshiach will oversee the people building it. But as we know, the Rishonim did not just make things up all the time; they had sources for what they said - especially in a topic like this. We have quoted the sources for the Rambam’s opinion (the Midrash Rabbah and the Talmud Yerushalmi), but where did Rashi get his opinion from? First, Tosafos in Shevuos quotes a Midrash Tanchuma[12] to support his view. And elsewhere in the Talmud Yerushalmi[13] it says that the (third) beis hamikdash will be built before Moshaich arrives; this only makes sense according to Rashi’s opinion, for according to the Rambam, Moshiach is supposed to be the one who oversees the building of the third mikdash. Therefore, we can now ask what does the Rambam do with the sources which seem to be proofs for Rashi’s view, and how will Rashi deal with the sources which supported the Rambam?
In order to get a better understanding of Rashi’s view, it is imperative that we cite some great questions from the Aruch La’ner,[14] which really gives birth to a deeper understanding of Rashi’s (and Tosafos and Ritva) opinion. He asks two strong questions on Rashi. Recall that according to Rashi, the third beis hamikdash is already built in Heaven; it must just be lowered down to Har Habayis. If so, the text of our Tefillah found in Avos[15] and Tamid[16] should not be ‘may the beis hamikdash be rebuilt (‘sheyibaneh beis hamikdash’) - for it is already built; rather it should be ‘may the beis hamikdash be revealed’(‘sheyigaleh beis hamidkash’). Next, the Aruch La’ner points out a contradictory Rashi. Later on in gemarra Sukka, the gemarra tells us[17] that there are ‘four carpenters/skilled workmen;’ Moshiach ben David, Moshaich ben Yosef, Eliyahu, and Shem ben Noach. And Rashi comments[18] that Moshiach will need to be a skilled workman for the building of the beis hamikdash. It seems that Rashi is now siding with the Rambam that Moshiach will have a hand in (overseeing) the building of the beis hamikdash. And so how do we resolve this contradiction in Rashi’s view?
--- End quote ---
Zelhar:
--- Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on May 20, 2012, 02:57:58 PM ---
The Shulhan Aruch itself has some problems when it includes Kabbalistic things. For example Tefillin during Hol Hamoed when before the advent of the zohar it was ruled to wear it during Hol Hamoed, yett the Kabbalists changed the standing Halacha because of something mentioned in the zohar.
http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/list-audio-shiurim/35-hagim/320-wearing-tphilllin-during-hol-hamoedh-the-intermediate-days-of-the-festival
Both Talmudhim indicate that one is to wear T'philllin during Hol HaMo'edh.
The Rif, Rambam, Rosh and Tur all agree that the misswah applies even during Succoth and Pesah. The Shulhan Arukh says otherwise, contrary to his own rule of thumb. He was influenced by the Zohar. A classic and telling example of the influence of Qabbala on Halakhic practice.
--- End quote ---
I didn't know that. Now some of the Kabbalistic influence is quite benign. I think that for example the concept of Kabbalat Shabat is largely based on Kabbalah and many of the zmirot were written by mekubalim including HaAri.
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