Author Topic: Franchise anthropologist Richard Leakey: Evolution debate will soon be history  (Read 5556 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
My comments are in red within the article. I can't respect a scientist who is making a mockery out of his profession.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/201303/scientist-evolution-debate-will-soon-be-history

Paleoanthropologist Richard Leakey predicts end is near on debate over evolution

By Associated Press, Published: May 26

NEW YORK — Richard Leakey predicts skepticism over evolution will soon be history.

Not that the avowed atheist has any doubts himself.

Sometime in the next 15 to 30 years, the Kenyan-born paleoanthropologist expects scientific discoveries will have accelerated to the point that “even the skeptics can accept it.”

“If you get to the stage where you can persuade people on the evidence, that it’s solid, that we are all African, that color is superficial, that stages of development of culture are all interactive,” Leakey says, “then I think we have a chance of a world that will respond better to global challenges.”


MY COMMENT ABOUT THIS: If Leakey was to be true to his theories, then the logical conclusion would be that no we are not all Africans, some groups of our specie evolved further and other groups may have evolved in a different direction. We are not all the same. Also note the logical gap, or rather illogical jump with the statement about stages of development of culture. That has nothing to do with evolution and as a general rule it is not always true that the stages are "interactive" and even if they do what does it mean ? Does it mean a high tech society and a jungle dwelling hunter gatherer society are at the same stage as long as they are interacting ?

Leakey, a professor at Stony Brook University on Long Island, recently spent several weeks in New York promoting the Turkana Basin Institute in Kenya. The institute, where Leakey spends most of his time, welcomes researchers and scientists from around the world dedicated to unearthing the origins of mankind in an area rich with fossils.

His friend, Paul Simon, performed at a May 2 fundraiser for the institute in Manhattan that collected more than $2 million. A National Geographic documentary on his work at Turkana aired this month on public television.


Now 67, Leakey is the son of the late Louis and Mary Leakey and conducts research with his wife, Meave, and daughter, Louise. The family claims to have unearthed “much of the existing fossil evidence for human evolution.”


Now that I know what time of family business he runs and who is funding him I have to question every finding his scam claims to unearth.

On the eve of his return to Africa earlier this week, Leakey spoke to The Associated Press in New York City about the past and the future.

“If you look back, the thing that strikes you, if you’ve got any sensitivity, is that extinction is the most common phenomena,” Leakey says. “Extinction is always driven by environmental change. Environmental change is always driven by climate change. Man accelerated, if not created, planet change phenomena; I think we have to recognize that the future is by no means a very rosy one.”


What a Renaissance man, he is an expert in anthropology, sociology, as well as in the environmental and climate science. Now I have no choice but to believe in global warming and start building an ark.

Any hope for mankind’s future, he insists, rests on accepting existing scientific evidence of its past.

“If we’re spreading out across the world from centers like Europe and America that evolution is nonsense and science is nonsense, how do you combat new pathogens, how do you combat new strains of disease that are evolving in the environment?” he asked.


Science is not nonsense nor evolution, but Leakey is doing junk science that is not an attempt to discover truth but rather creating a perception that matches his atheism and political believes.

“If you don’t like the word evolution, I don’t care what you call it, but life has changed. You can lay out all the fossils that have been collected and establish lineages that even a fool could work up. So the question is why, how does this happen? It’s not covered by Genesis. There’s no explanation for this change going back 500 million years in any book I’ve read from the lips of any God.”

Leakey is mixing science and religion (his religion- atheism). Genesis, the Torah, is not a science book and it doesn't deal with evolution nor with quantum physics.

Leakey insists he has no animosity toward religion.

“If you tell me, well, people really need a faith ... I understand that,” he said.

“I see no reason why you shouldn’t go through your life thinking if you’re a good citizen, you’ll get a better future in the afterlife ....”

Patronizing atheist to the end.

Leakey began his work searching for fossils in the mid-1960s. His team unearthed a nearly complete 1.6-million-year-old skeleton in 1984 that became known as “Turkana Boy,” the first known early human with long legs, short arms and a tall stature.

In the late 1980s, Leakey began a career in government service in Kenya, heading the Kenya Wildlife Service. He led the quest to protect elephants from poachers who were killing the animals at an alarming rate in order to harvest their valuable ivory tusks. He gathered 12 tons of confiscated ivory in Nairobi National Park and set it afire in a 1989 demonstration that attracted worldwide headlines.

In 1993, Leakey crashed a small propeller-driven plane; his lower legs were later amputated and he now gets around on artificial limbs. There were suspicions the plane had been sabotaged by his political enemies, but it was never proven.

About a decade ago, he visited Stony Brook University on eastern Long Island, a part of the State University of New York, as a guest lecturer. Then-President Shirley Strum Kenny began lobbying Leakey to join the faculty. It was a process that took about two years; he relented after returning to the campus to accept an honorary degree.

Kenny convinced him that he could remain in Kenya most of the time, where Stony Brook anthropology students could visit and learn about his work. And the college founded in 1957 would benefit from the gravitas of such a noted professor on its faculty.

“It was much easier to work with a new university that didn’t have a 200-year-old image where it was so set in its ways like some of the Ivy League schools that you couldn’t really change what they did and what they thought,” he said.

Earlier this month, Paul Simon performed at a benefit dinner for the Turkana Basin Institute. IMAX CEO Rich Gelfond and his wife, Peggy Bonapace Gelfond, and billionaire hedge fund investor Jim Simons and his wife, Marilyn, were among those attending the exclusive show in Manhattan’s Chelsea neighborhood.

Simon agreed to allow his music to be performed on the National Geographic documentary airing on PBS and donated an autographed guitar at the fundraiser that sold for nearly $20,000.

Leakey, who clearly cherishes investigating the past, is less optimistic about the future.

“We may be on the cusp of some very real disasters that have nothing to do with whether the elephant survives, or a cheetah survives, but if we survive.”

Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Offline angryChineseKahanist

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 10548
  • ☭=卐=☮
Richard Leakey's head is Leakey.

U+262d=U+5350=U+9774

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
Richard Leakey's head is Leakey.
Funny, I was sure you would instantly agree with the claim that we are all Africans.

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18307
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
I think he's wrong about the pure out of Africa hypothesis. I think there's still room to consider multiregionalism as a factor.

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
I think he's wrong about the pure out of Africa hypothesis. I think there's still room to consider multiregionalism as a factor.
If we are one specie, homo-sapience, then we must originate from a single place.

Offline GreenLightToGo

  • Full JTFer
  • ***
  • Posts: 172
"If you get to the stage where you can persuade people on the evidence, that it’s solid, that we are all African, that color is superficial, that stages of development of culture are all interactive,” Leakey says, “then I think we have a chance of a world that will respond better to global challenges."

I'm not going to start calling the Irish & the French Africans just to pander to blacks who don't want to set aside their differences with other people.

Blacks tell us they're equal to everyone else, and until they say otherwise, I'm setting equal expectations for them.

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18307
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
If we are one specie, homo-sapience, then we must originate from a single place.

From what I've been able to read were several waves of migration from the African continent. I think it's possible that Europeans and Asians have admixture with Neanderthal genes (From Europe and the Middle East) and possibly Erectus (in the Middle East and east Asia) too as later waves came out and mixed with earlier waves, so that the differences would be more pronounced than if the latest waves came out and there was no mixture at all and the differences are only down to environment. I think it's interesting how when I look at skulls of the three major races that Asians and Europeans look fairly similar and African skulls look different even to a lay person's eyes.

Since their ancestors stayed in Africa, they would not have changed as much as those who left to adapt to colder northern climates and mixed with earlier waves in those regions that had done the same thing.

Apparently one of the scientists who promotes this idea is Alan Templeton, here's a good article about it:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/03/0306_0306_outofafrica.html

Waves of migration (at least 3 according to him) came out and mixed with earlier waves. It's sort of a mix between OOA and multiregionalism but basically it means no, we're not all identical to black Africans. Basically Africans developed down their own path while those in other regions developed down their own path to become quite different from each other. Non-African populations have genes from other sources (such as big brained Neanderthals) and were more cold-adapted, leading to things like the need for forward planning, better cooperation between individuals, more inventiveness, etc.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 10:48:31 PM by Rubystars »

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
I agree 100% with what Ruby  just said, but how does this balance with the bible?
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18307
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
I agree 100% with what Ruby  just said, but how does this balance with the bible?

I believe that some (not all) of the hominids were fully and spiritually human in the sense of their relationship with God. I believe God created us but used these processes as part of creation. It's like how all the elements except hydrogen and helium have to be made in stars or in supernovae. That's the only way you get any other elements. God used those stars to produce those elements necessary for life, and had them come together.

I recommend reading Rare Earth. I just finished it and it shows how unique earth really is and how it almost hints at design (and while I think that we can infer design, we can't demonstrate it conclusively, as I mentioned in a previous thread). Nevertheless I think it was really neat how everything with the earth from our type of star, the placement of objects in the solar system, etc. is just right for life. I think there's definitely room there for a Creator. This isn't something that can be scientifically established, but the door is open for belief.

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18307
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
HaShem has allowed evil people like this to rise to a respected status in the evolution community for a reason, in order to show all decent people that evolutionists, like those who promote man-made climate change, are operating with an agenda to discredit religion and not purely scientific observation. 

You have a really good point here Dan.

This is why I don't participate in any those types of forums anymore right now. I felt like my contributions were being used to push an agenda that I completely disagreed with and that was evil. If I did participate again then I probably wouldn't be very popular due to the fact that I would be stating how I felt about that evil agenda to push militant atheism on people. There are a lot of militant atheists who do everything they can to push people to think believing in God is illogical and wrong. They commit blasphemy by calling God derogatory names and they are almost always very left leaning.

They did what they could to try to destroy my faith but it didn't work and that's when things got ugly for me and they showed how much they hated me (well, not me personally really, just that they hated Bible believers). One thing they said was that I was no better than a 'fundy' because my beliefs in God and God's role in creation. The fact that I accepted standard scientific explanations for things didn't change that in the slightest. It was pure hate, pure viciousness. I think what the atheists really hated was God and they projected that hate onto me because I wouldn't back down.


Offline briann

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 8038
  • Mmmm HMMMMM
By his rationale, we are all monkeys too, and for that matter, lower mammals, since we may have came from the same species in Africa... and any difference between me and a gerbil is just 'superficial'

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18307
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
By his rationale, we are all monkeys too, and for that matter, lower mammals, since we may have came from the same species in Africa... and any difference between me and a gerbil is just 'superficial'

That's the left wing mindset of atheists like him. Extreme liberals don't see humans as being inherently better or more worthy of consideration than animals. I cringe when I think of how some people have justified abortion by arguing that a fetus is not any more sentient or intelligent than a pig and that we have no problems with slaughtering pigs. The rebuttal that "The baby is human!" seems to hold no weight with these militant atheists. They see no inherent value in being human.

A while back PETA was running advertisements comparing chickens to Holocaust victims. They really saw that as completely morally equivalent. They thought they were making a valid moral point. They didn't even register it in their minds that they were dehumanizing the real victims of the real Holocaust and deeply insulting them.

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
I think many self titled liberals are just not mature enough, or rather too dogmatic with their atheism and progressive beliefs, to admit that there is a difference between races, and that there is a difference between males and females. And while there is a difference, it doesn't give special privileges to some above others, and every individual in society should have equal rights and obligations (of course with some exceptions like mentally retarded people). In fact when progressives impose affirmative action they try to sort of square the circle (with a ruler and compass only), they try to prove that everyone is the same which is simply not true.

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18307
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
I think many self titled liberals are just not mature enough, or rather too dogmatic with their atheism and progressive beliefs, to admit that there is a difference between races, and that there is a difference between males and females. And while there is a difference, it doesn't give special privileges to some above others, and every individual in society should have equal rights and obligations (of course with some exceptions like mentally retarded people). In fact when progressives impose affirmative action they try to sort of square the circle (with a ruler and compass only), they try to prove that everyone is the same which is simply not true.

I think it's ironic how evolution is based on variation+selection and yet these left wingers want to deny that variation really exists at all.

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
I agree 100% with what Ruby  just said, but how does this balance with the bible?

The bible is a book of morality; not a science book.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Meerkat

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1426
  • Yemach Shmam to Egypt and Iran
I think it's ironic how evolution is based on variation+selection and yet these left wingers want to deny that variation really exists at all.

you're right, never thought of that.

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
I think it's ironic how evolution is based on variation+selection and yet these left wingers want to deny that variation really exists at all.

"If there's one thing our totalitarian overlords hate, it's coming across as the totalitarian overlords they really are." Greenfield Evolution as a theory as written by Charles Darwin's grandfather served to prove why the monarchy had simply evolved as rulers, and others as peasants. Eugenics complicated the mix, and then tolerance came about, saying the superior races/breeds should give an advantage to the lesser ones, because it's not fair. This is why the same channel on the zombie tube can promote a life of crime to blacks, while accusing the rest of the world as being the ones doing wrong.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18307
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
I don't believe in inferior/superior races. I think that races of people are superior at certain things and inferior at other things. We're not all the same or equally adept in all areas. That doesn't make one inherently better or worse than others as a blanket rule in all things.

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
I don't believe in inferior/superior races. I think that races of people are superior at certain things and inferior at other things. We're not all the same or equally adept in all areas. That doesn't make one inherently better or worse than others as a blanket rule in all things.

...that's still eugenics. Put a black guy from birth in a christian setting with no other black people to show how gangster he is to, and poof he's intelligent and normal. Let a muslim or Obuma's pastor raise him, and he's a monster. I greatly dislike the term sub-human. Left to our own vices, we're pretty bad without torah and other spiritual books to teach us what's right. Worship the devil, and you're a monster. Arabs become inventors, though pretty much never as muslims, black people become righteous politicians, though pretty much never in the ghetto. As far as Jews, we've got the whole spectrum of colors, like me. It is not race that makes greatness in any aspect, but the G-d of Israel.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18307
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
...that's still eugenics. Put a black guy from birth in a christian setting with no other black people to show how gangster he is to, and poof he's intelligent and normal. Let a muslim or Obuma's pastor raise him, and he's a monster.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Even black children raised in white families in white neighborhoods often display measurable differences from the other non-black children raised in the same family. This doesn't mean they're inferior it just means they're different.

I don't believe in eugenics though. I think that almost everybody has the right to have children if they want to (I say almost because there could be some cases where someone might make a point where a particular individual person should not, like a pedophile or a serial killer, but this is not based on race or heritage).

Quote
I greatly dislike the term sub-human.

I didn't call anyone subhuman in this thread though some individuals have certainly earned that term.

Quote
Left to our own vices, we're pretty bad without torah and other spiritual books to teach us what's right. Worship the devil, and you're a monster. Arabs become inventors, though pretty much never as muslims, black people become righteous politicians, though pretty much never in the ghetto. As far as Jews, we've got the whole spectrum of colors, like me. It is not race that makes greatness in any aspect, but the G-d of Israel.

Good points. Without the Bible everyone's a barbarian.

Offline syyuge

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 7684
Evolution shall be broken in to two segments:

(1) General theory of Evolution
(2) Special theory of Evolution

Both of these segments shall be connected up by a 'missing link', which is yet to be invented by these rEvolutionaries.
There are thunders and sparks in the skies, because Faraday invented the electricity.

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
Evolution shall be broken in to two segments:

(1) General theory of Evolution
(2) Special theory of Evolution

Both of these segments shall be connected up by a 'missing link', which is yet to be invented by these rEvolutionaries.
Brilliant.

Offline briann

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 8038
  • Mmmm HMMMMM
I have no issues with evolution... but when evolutionists insist everything is completely by accident, that's where they lose me.

Also, when evolutionists use their rationale to say that we are equal with lower mammals because of their theory, that's when they are motivated more by politics than science.

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
I don't think that's necessarily true. Even black children raised in white families in white neighborhoods often display measurable differences from the other non-black children raised in the same family. This doesn't mean they're inferior it just means they're different.

-let them watch the same t.v., and that's enough. Add some ghetto friends, and it's done for. If someone's father and all his father's only ever survived in a swamp, the kid will never have the same potential for intelligence as someone with scholars for many generations, but in terms of moral development, there is nothing intricately different about black people that affects morality, just the culture and believing in the devil.

I don't believe in eugenics though. I think that almost everybody has the right to have children if they want to (I say almost because there could be some cases where someone might make a point where a particular individual person should not, like a pedophile or a serial killer, but this is not based on race or heritage).

-Eugenics is more than forced sterilization, which I see killing the person as always the better option when it comes to these serial pedophile killer types.


I didn't call anyone subhuman in this thread though some individuals have certainly earned that term.

- I know, it's just the concept, and technically if you do worship the devil you become a sub-human, like muslims that rape and be-head seven year olds.


Good points. Without the Bible everyone's a barbarian.

- There's worse then barbarians if they believe a satanic book. In a weird way I might be too stubborn to be thankful for, everything I hear from satanic books always confirms why G-d and his Torah have been right all along. The stubbornness is me not wanting to accept Jews and barbarians is worse than if the world was Jews and satanists.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
If we are one specie, homo-sapience, then we must originate from a single place.

The out of africa theory has a competitor today, and the competing hypothesis grows in popularity.