Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Shalom
muman613:
--- Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on June 06, 2012, 12:52:46 AM ---"I said what the issue to me was... He is always speaking derogatorily of other streams of Judaism, either Chassidus, or now Rambamist.... Even if he were 100% right in what he said I would reject his findings based on his approach, trying to prove that he is right and everyone else is wrong.
There is a way a good Rabbi can present his findings without saying things to insult other Jews. "
- A scholar is supposed to show his findings and his points. If him saying that a Kzait is what it is- "Like an olive size" and not 30 grams offends you for him simply stating the obvious, then the problem is not him but its you yourself and your logic. What is he supposed to say? Is he suppoed to withhold halahic information because of fear of offending others?
And I don't see him saying things to insult other Jews. Their are things he brought up because they need to be brought up because of the dangers such beliefs pose including Chabad Messianism. This objection of yours would be like you telling a Rabbi during (after) the time of Jesus not to prove the teachings of Jesus and the disciples wrong since it might offend some. Maybe truthful but the language is just too- truthful.
--- End quote ---
I have said what I had to say on this topic.
I am sorry if I said I don't respect his opinion. I am sure that his opinion is valid and I should consider it... I will see if his approach ever changes to a manner which I can accept.
muman613:
http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2008/02/08/the-power-of-chabad/
The Power of Chabad
By Yaakov Menken, on February 8th, 2008
I have a son approaching Bar Mitzvah age, which means he will be needing Tefillin shortly. My mother mentioned that her grandfather’s old Tefillin were in a package in a basement. I had never known of them before, but as you can imagine was excited to learn that they existed. Well… when I opened the bag my wife and I were dismayed. The batim, the boxes, were green. Mold green. We thought that after years in a wet basement, all was lost.
When I opened them, however, I got a surprise in the opposite direction. Not only were the parshiyos (the written parchments) in decent condition, but the writing was truly beautiful. I showed them to an expert sofer, who restored them. They are perhaps 150 years old, and the writing, he said, was only used by a pretty elite group. The batim were constructed from multiple pieces of leather, which we wouldn’t use today with such fine parchments. But what we found inside them were hidden gems. “He spent his money on the writing,” said the sofer. And who knows… what spiritual impact might have been felt from that level of sacrifice for the sake of a Mitzvah, four generations later?
The parshiyos are written in the Ksav, the font, attributed to the Alter Rebbe of Lubavitch.
When I read the responses to my earlier post, “A Hopeful Sign for Chabad?“, I was extremely pleased to see the fiery denunciation of the ‘Meshichist’ wing from commenters who identify with Lubavitch. I think a tad more forbearance is appropriate towards those other commenters who previously encountered opinions similar to Eli Soble’s from far more prominent figures within the movement. The fact that the JPost found no one better known than Soble to voice this tripe is a hopeful sign, but we cannot pretend that it has always been so.
The marginalization of the Meshichist viewpoint must be repeated until it is no longer espoused not merely in public, not merely in private conversation, but in the hearts of all ma’aminim, those faithful to Torah. Because, at the same time, Lubavitch has a long and distinguished Chassidic line, and thousands upon thousands of people willing to be moser nefesh, to give up their very lives, on behalf of all Jews and, indeed, all humanity.
Two newspaper articles, both published today, are good examples, and Rabbi Adlerstein deserves the credit for pointing them out. One is in the New York Times, the other the Concord Monitor, and both represent a Kiddush HaShem. Both of the gentlemen featured are Ba’alei Teshuva who found their way home via Lubavitch. Both have careers in the secular community. Both are unafraid to be who they are, beards, black hats, and all, in very foreign environments. And both have bridged the divide with great success.
Chabad shluchim are creating these types of success stories every day. There’s much to learn from them, and much that could be accomplished with more unity.
Frankly, there’s a divide to be bridged within the Orthodox world. Yes, the Yechi-niks are far too numerous, and far too visible. Yes, in Lubavitch there is a school of thought that other frum Jews have to be brought into Chabad. There are those who give their time, energy and money only to Lubavitch, who quote only Lubavitcher Rebbes, etc., etc., etc. The relationship has been rocky, and to a large extent that must be attributed to Lubavitchers rather than those who have criticized them. There is far too much of this to be dismissed as “the enmity of centuries of Misnahgdim.” There are serious issues here, and you certainly don’t see this sort of criticism leveled against Bobov, Stolin, Satmar, Ger, or any other Chassidic group. My aforementioned son is named after my wife’s grandfather, who was a Belzer Chossid, descended from the Noam Elimelech via the Dinover Rebbe. We all have our own parochial hang-ups, but you don’t find any similar level of friction between Belzers and Litvaks.
I would put it this way: there is mold on the outside. The public displays of the Meshichistin and these other issues stain the image of Lubavitch. The gems are less visible, less obvious, hidden inside. Having heard only positive things about Rabbis such as Dovid Eliezrie (and those positive things, quite frequently) one can only say keyn yirbu — may Rabbis such as he increase both in number and in influence.
Read more: http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2008/02/08/the-power-of-chabad/#ixzz1wzDrWhTZ
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on June 06, 2012, 12:47:05 AM ---Again I apologize because I am sure he is a very knowledgeable Rabbi... But I find his method very upsetting. Maybe it motivates you.... But he said things about Breslov Chassidut and other things about those who believe in Kabbalistic teachings which I find hard to swallow.
Maybe some day I will hear your Rabbi and understand what he is saying. But I don't agree that Chabad and CHassidus makes Jews who are not Zionists. I know many who attend Chabad Shabbatons and Yom Tovim who are very Zionistic. I even discussed Rabbi Kahane with my Chabad Rabbi personally the other day and he said he admires Rabbi Kahane. I also asked about Mesichist Chabdniks and my Rabbi said it is a small amount of CHabad shluchim who ruin it for the majority because mainstream Chabad does not teach this.
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In a shiur, Rabbi Bar Hayim had many positive things to say about Rav Nachman of Breslav, and especially about the practice of "hitbodedut," and personalizing prayer which they stressed. He is also not hesitant to point out that there are some delirious people out there who call themselves followers of Rav Nachman. But everyone is aware of this! Does he need to pretend it doesn't exist?
And some who do crazy things in the name of this (like the very strange rosh hashana uman thing). I mean, does that take anything away from Rav Nachman? No, not in my mind. It seems like you think it somehow is an attack on Breslav chassidus. We should be able to separate the wheat from the chaff here, and just as you find positive things in Breslav teachings which you embrace, rightfully, so too we can recognize some unwanted things (like for instance an unusual modern day custom with no real source) and be ok with setting that aside. In both cases we are making the decision not in spite or anger with anyone else and not with insults or personal affront. Just trying to analyze the issues and go for what is right.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on June 06, 2012, 02:46:34 AM ---In a shiur, Rabbi Bar Hayim had many positive things to say about Rav Nachman of Breslav, and especially about the practice of "hitbodedut," and personalizing prayer which they stressed. He is also not hesitant to point out that there are some delirious people out there who call themselves followers of Rav Nachman. But everyone is aware of this! Does he need to pretend it doesn't exist?
And some who do crazy things in the name of this (like the very strange rosh hashana uman thing). I mean, does that take anything away from Rav Nachman? No, not in my mind. It seems like you think it somehow is an attack on Breslav chassidus. We should be able to separate the wheat from the chaff here, and just as you find positive things in Breslav teachings which you embrace, rightfully, so too we can recognize some unwanted things (like for instance an unusual modern day custom with no real source) and be ok with setting that aside. In both cases we are making the decision not in spite or anger with anyone else and not with insults or personal affront. Just trying to analyze the issues and go for what is right.
--- End quote ---
I understand what you are saying.
But personally I like Rabbi Lazer Brodys approach which attempts to see the good in all Jews, and trying to bring them back to more mitzvah observance. I realize that Rabbi Bar Chayim has a different approach.
I agree that we all should be seeking the truth according to Jewish sources and I hope that we all know the truth so that we can teach others...
edu:
Halacha often relies on how people perceive the object rather than objective reality.
We will therefore freely drink a cup of water, even though if the microscopic organisms that were in the water, were larger and visible to the naked eye, the water would be forbidden.
Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach provides other examples of this rule. See chapter 4 of Halichot Shlomo, halacha 5 on Moadim for details.
Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach held that since to the naked eye, lice do not appear to be reproduced by the same means as larger insects, they legally have a different status allowing them to be killed on the Sabbath, even if objectively under a microscope or by other tests, you can prove, that lice are the natural offspring of a previous generation of lice.
What I stated above was in reponse to Tag-MechirTzedek's comment previously:
--- Quote ---Also another example is killing lice on Shabbath. The opinion of R' Elizer is that killing lice is like killing a camel. The Hachamim disagree, BASED on the science and knowledge of their day that lice spontaniously generate. Therefore the Rav says that killing lice os forbidden on Shabbath (in agreement with R' Elizer + our knowledge over the other Hachamim) while some (for example R' Ovadia Yosef, and others) permit it today- their reasoning- just like yours, that is was made by the Hachamim and brought down in the Talmudh therefore it is allowed, although one can make a Humra and not do it him/her self. BUT this contradicts the Mesehet Horayot which specifically deals with situations where the Sanhedrin made a mistake and one knowledgeable NOT following it and if he did he is liable to bring a korban. (Its a whole discussion both Bavli and Yerushalmi)
--- End quote ---
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