Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
HaRav Elyashiv z'l and the Haredi Mind — Part 01
edu:
Regarding Tag-MehirTzedek's quote of Rabbi Bar-Hayim
--- Quote ---Did Moshe Rabenu die at the age of 120 due to someone’s sins or because HASHEM decreed that a human life-span will not exceed 120 (B’reshith 6:3)?
--- End quote ---
Rashi interprets that verse, that there was a gap of 120 years between the decree that the flood would come and the actual flood.
There is no limitation of G-d to live past 120. Moshe's brother and sister lived past that age and see Divrei Hayim{Chronicles} II chapter 24 verse 15, where the Bible records that the righteous, Cohain Gadol, Yehoyada lived till age 130.
edu:
Regarding the quote:
--- Quote ---Regarding the second question, one must recognize that the Haredi world has developed the idea that great rabbis are practically immortal. "If the Rav died, we must have sinned." The idea that the Rav died because he was very old is apparently too exotic. So death=sin.
--- End quote ---
I will try to judge for the benefit of the doubt. There is a concept in Judaism that eventually the Jews will reach the spiritual level to rectify the sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and nullify the decree of death in this world. Perhaps the Haredis were stressing the point that because the nation of Israel hasn't yet succeeded in reaching that spiritual level, death is still in place.
edu:
Rabbi Bar-Hayim, shlit"a asks
--- Quote ---How does the king, the political leader of the Jewish nation, transmogrify into a Tora scholar who, while looked up to by hundreds of thousands of Jews, was certainly not the leader of 'Am Yisrael?
--- End quote ---
There are places where the Talmud calls the Leading Rabbis of the generation, by the label, "Kings".
See Gittin 62a as an example.
This might be the Haredi application of this Talmudic statement.
There's room to argue if the application is or is not correct, but at least the Haredis have a source to rely on.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: edu on July 24, 2012, 02:02:04 AM ---Regarding Tag-MehirTzedek's quote of Rabbi Bar-HayimRashi interprets that verse, that there was a gap of 120 years between the decree that the flood would come and the actual flood.
There is no limitation of G-d to live past 120. Moshe's brother and sister lived past that age and see Divrei Hayim{Chronicles} II chapter 24 verse 15, where the Bible records that the righteous, Cohain Gadol, Yehoyada lived till age 130.
--- End quote ---
That completely misses the point. In spectacular fashion.
The rav's point is that old people die from old age. God created nature to operate as such. The denial of this concept was what he was addressing. Probably there is a shita that says God limited man's lifespan to 120, and maybe Rav Bar Hayim holds of that one so he presents it in this format. And there's probably a shita that it can get to 130, based on the fact you point out. And others probably hold of that. The difference is not relevant to this discussion, not even slightly. The point is that an old man, whether 102, or 120, or 130, dies from his old age over time, and not because "we sinned." As if Rav Eliashiv would have lived forever if we behaved better? !?
muman613:
This may be something to consider... David HaMelech was destined to live only 3 hours... Adam HaRishon was able to foresee this and he gave 70 years of his life to King David... We should not say that a man can only live 100-120 years, Hashem will decide when it is time.
http://www.torah.org/learning/ravfrand/5768/bereishis.html
--- Quote ---Adam Regrets His Gift to Dovid
The Medrash teaches that the Almighty showed Adam the history of mankind --each generation and its leaders. In the course of this "exhibition," Adam was shown the soul of Dovid HaMelech [King David] and the fact that he was destined to live only 3 hours. Adam was very grieved at this loss of potential. He inquired whether he was allowed to bequeath some of his own years to Dovid. The Almighty answered that Adam was destined to live for 1000 years, but that he would be allowed to give up some of those years to Dovid. Adam then bequeathed 70 years to Dovid, so that Adam lived for 930 years and Dovid lived for 70 years.
Chazal teach that when Adam was about to turn 930 years old, he regretted his earlier generosity and wanted to back out of the deal. G-d urged Adam to keep his word. G-d pointed out that Adam would have a descendant Yaakov who would make a vow and keep it. Ultimately, Adam agreed to keep his earlier vow.
--- End quote ---
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