Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

  I think this is both sensationalism and retarded as well. Of-course their will be a few who did or will get this but still the vast majority of Orthodox Jews are normal and not retarded like that.
  If someone want to use them, by all means just don't drive (which Haredim don't in Israel), and about that walking and getting hit by a car also can be an issue.  They should build gyms and be bissy with other things to get ride of some of the energy and not be obsessed with these things.

[Israel Chai]

I can't look at a girl's pinky??? So confused right now. 

Nobody ever gave themselves heart problems to avoid bacon. I don't think such an absurdity as glasses that function like my eyes are mainstream, they should however be denounced.

Someone explain me the little finger thing, I'm completely lost. While that never made it to my list of fetishes, I don't see how that makes sense and is in line with Torah. Am I denouncing Judaism if I don't agree with some aspects of the Talmud (if you don't convince me about the finger thing)?

[The One and Only Mo]

I can't look at a girl's pinky??? So confused right now. 

Nobody ever gave themselves heart problems to avoid bacon. I don't think such an absurdity as glasses that function like my eyes are mainstream, they should however be denounced.

Someone explain me the little finger thing, I'm completely lost. While that never made it to my list of fetishes, I don't see how that makes sense and is in line with Torah. Am I denouncing Judaism if I don't agree with some aspects of the Talmud (if you don't convince me about the finger thing)?

lol. You can't disagree with the Talmud

[Israel Chai]

lol. You can't disagree with the Talmud

Ok laugh it up, but this is my source for Judaism seriously, am I like a heretic if I disagree with the Talmud saying that, and believe female little fingers are not sexual, except... well a very weird fetish that I never did or plan on trying...

[The One and Only Mo]

Ok laugh it up, but this is my source for Judaism seriously, am I like a heretic if I disagree with the Talmud saying that, and believe female little fingers are not sexual, except... well a very weird fetish that I never did or plan on trying...

Wasn't laughin at you. Was laughing at the question.

[Israel Chai]

Wasn't laughin at you. Was laughing at the question.

... well ain't that peaches and cream.

Now I read stuff from rabbis, and some conflicted and you could choose which one you believed and [censored], but is that particular passage in the Talmud like that too?

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

except... well a very weird fetish that I never did or plan on trying...

Come on!

[muman613]

The Talmud which I quoted concerned whether it was permitted to say Shema when looking at a woman... But in general we should attempt to avoid looking at things which lead us astray. This is one reason we are commanded to wear Tzit-Tzits. One reason, according to Chassidus, that we wear our tzit-tzit strings out of our pants is so that we can see them. Because the Shema says that we should see our tzit-tzits and remember all 613 commandments of the Torah {which through the knots and strings equals 613}. The Shema says we should see them and not follow after our eyes, and our hearts, to lead us astray.

It is so easy for a thought to enter a mans mind which will lead him astray. So many guys are looking at girls, it is a part of American society. No matter what guys have to admit that they spend a lot of time just looking {and fantasizing} about women. The righteous man understands that this is an animal desire and attempts to do things to avoid thinking about these things. One reason that women and men are separated during prayer in an Orthodox shul is because of the distraction caused by men looking at women instead of praying, or engaging in small talk in attempts to date the woman. I know from when I first started attending a liberal progressive shul where women and men sat together. I found it very distracting {women were attracted to me and wanted to sit next to me}. It is not an insult to the woman that I feel like this, I just want to be able to engage in my Tefillah/Prayer in a way where my attention is on Hashem and not the woman next to me.

I live in a world where I cannot help but work with women. But I do look down as I pass them in the hallway, and I go a different way around when I see an immodestly dressed woman walking toward me... I know from when I was married that looking at women can make your wife extremely jealous...

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

No it is saying that *if you stare in the wrong way and derive some pleasure even from a finger its forbidden. That doesn't mean that a lady should now cover up her pinky as well. It is telling you the man- that you should know what and who you are and that doing certain things with your eyes if it makes certain thoughts its not allowed. It does not mean that now a women should cover her pinky for you. Their are certain guidelines for tzniyut (modesty) and its terrible to turn either left or right on these issues. Both extremes are wrong and crazy. On the one hand a lady walking in a biki in front of men (for example regular beach) and on the other the tents that islamics have (both extremes are wrong) for example.

[muman613]

For anyone interested in investigating this further there is a Jewish website which helps people with internet porn addiction...

http://www.guardureyes.com

http://www.guardureyes.com/GUE/Music/mus/Telescope.mp3

[muman613]

No it is saying that *if you stare in the wrong way and derive some pleasure even from a finger its forbidden. That doesn't mean that a lady should now cover up her pinky as well. It is telling you the man- that you should know what and who you are and that doing certain things with your eyes if it makes certain thoughts its not allowed. It does not mean that now a women should cover her pinky for you. Their are certain guidelines for tzniyut (modesty) and its terrible to turn either left or right on these issues. Both extremes are wrong and crazy. On the one hand a lady walking in a biki in front of men (for example regular beach) and on the other the tents that islamics have (both extremes are wrong) for example.

The point of the fuzzy glasses is so that the woman is not affected... The entire responsibility is on the man...

[The One and Only Mo]

I'm done with this topic. We'll all agree to disagree. I'm glad that Dr. Dan, at the very least, at least sees where I am coming from.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

The entire responsibility is on the man...

I agree! If we are that much of a piece of drek that we can not control ourselves, and not push ourselves on women... Than we should be punished!

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

LKZ I think your confusing some things. On the one hand you say that looking at women in bikinis doesn't do anything, then you say "stupid glasses might help out people to be less lustful."
 Like I pointed out earlier their is a proper balance. One can look at a lady without looking at her lustfully. Their can (apparently) be those who just look at a pinky or face or something (hard to believe) and derive pleasure. And also (by what you said) at the same time a man (who is straight) can look at women in bikinis and chest area exposed etc. and not feel anything. These are probably big exceptions. Most men would and do fall in the middle I believe. I think one can interact with females without going crazy about them, but just in the proper way. One the one hand not on a beach or night club where they are dressed immodestly (even prospectively) and dancing etc. and not on the other hand having to wear these crazy glasses and other such extremes such as the tent that we see with mooslims. Their are proper and modest guidelines in Jewish law which should be kept without resorting to extremes (be they secular extremes or "Haredi" extremes as well).

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

  I think this is both sensationalism and retarded as well.

lol true.

  If someone want to use them, by all means just don't drive (which Haredim don't in Israel),

Haredim do drive in Israel.    Many Israelis habitually take the bus and public transportation and taxis, but haredim do drive too.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

What's chasimas hashas?  And how does that apply to making fences?

Chasimas hashas was the sealing of the Talmud into a final format.   All the "takanas" are made within the shas (Shas refers to the complete set of Talmud) by the talmudic sages.  It's a certain halachic category of laws we follow.   Rabbis today cannot make up their own takanas although some seem to have an inflated sense of rabbinic authority.   Traditional Jews go by Talmud and the poskim (who are figuring out halacha from whats in talmud, not making up new restrictions).

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I'm sure it's only for sidewalk use or at malls, and if it ruined their vision it WOULD be assur and they wouldn't be doing it. There's no sakana otherwise they wouldn't do it. It's just to not see pretty women. Everything else is taken care of, don't jump to conclusions.

WHAT?!

Let me see if I get this straight.  Your logic goes like this:    You have decided that there can't be a sakana involved since orthodox jews are doing xyz.   These Jews would never do something if it was incorrect or dangerous, therefore whatever they do, including thing xyz, cannot possibly be dangerous or incorrect since by definition Orthodox Jews Don't Do Dangerous Things.   Therefore wearing fuzzy glasses must be correct and wise.

Wow.  Logical fallacy.   

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Besides, what's wrong with smashing a computer it prevents aveiros?   

 

You completely missed the point.   

When I said this  "Except its not like that.  This would be like taking a computer and smashing it on the ground like tarzan.  "

I said that because you tried to equate the fuzzy glasses with an internet filter.   I was demonstrating to you logically that it is nothing like an internet filter.   It is like someone taking a computer and smashing it as his response to the fact that there are good and bad sites on the internet.
You respond with "smashing a computer is a good idea" 
I give up.

Not everybody is as strong-willed as you are. Just because you either hate religious people or think you are more religious than them doesn't give you the right to tell a person how to fight his/yetzer hara.

Lol, I hate religious people?   So I hate myself?   

How is it that I am  "more religious" than them?   They are the ones with insane sexual chumras.   They are the super frum.   But guess what.   It's my kids (someday) and your kids (someday) who will not be allowed into school unless their parent signs an agreement to walk around with fuzzy glasses.    Look, you are young and naive.  You don't understand the politics in our world.   It is getting sicker and sicker by the day and ENCOURAGING insane behavior does not help the Jewish people, it makes things worse.

Meanwhile, did I ridicule something here?   No.  I pointed out how dangerous it is.   And how harmful it is to the eyes.   And how stupid it happens to be.    So why do you take that as an insult?   How about, instead of taking offense or going on the defensive as if I'm "attacking" religious people, why don't you consider the points I made and not just assume it must be ok since an orthodox Jew is doing it.  Ever entertain the idea that I might be right about something? 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Ok laugh it up, but this is my source for Judaism seriously, am I like a heretic if I disagree with the Talmud saying that, and believe female little fingers are not sexual, except... well a very weird fetish that I never did or plan on trying...

Even in light of what the Talmud says, I don't believe it's claiming that a little finger is sexual.   The Talmud uses descriptive language and figures of speech to convey a point.   It's saying not to look at women in a sexual way.   Not even the smallest part of them.     If you allow yourself to admire the woman's toe for instance, you'll come to admire the rest of her.   That seems to me the point of that whole statement about the woman's little finger.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

How is it that I am  "more religious" than them?   They are the ones with insane sexual chumras.   They are the super frum.   But guess what.   It's my kids (someday) and your kids (someday) who will not be allowed into school unless their parent signs an agreement to walk around with fuzzy glasses.    Look, you are young and naive.  You don't understand the politics in our world.   It is getting sicker and sicker by the day and ENCOURAGING insane behavior does not help the Jewish people, it makes things worse.

 While I'm on the same page with you, do you really expect that. I know what you mean and from a certain perspective I do not even mind. I know where not to send my kids to. I don't want them in these types of inviorments. Good that their are choices.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Aw cmon dude I was at the dead sea and there were girls in bikinis and I'm not staring or fantasizing about having sex with anyone,

Really?  Do you have a pulse?

(I was gonna ask a different question, but I don't want you to start questioning certain things...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Next, why can't you just enjoy the beauty of a women, her legs for example, without wanting to ...

Not wanting to do things with her.... But admiring her beauty.   First of all, now I have to ask the question, are you gay?   If she's beautiful, then you are lying to yourself if you claim you don't want to.   Second of all, no, it's not ok to admire women physically unless it's your wife and even then there's a limit to that.   We're not supposed to look at women as physical objects.   It's wrong.    Yeah, if you say that's extremely difficult, I'm with you, but that's the harsh reality, it's not acceptable to view women as sexual objects or to take pleasure in their physical appearance.  They are people, not toys.

[The One and Only Mo]

You completely missed the point.   

When I said this  "Except its not like that.  This would be like taking a computer and smashing it on the ground like tarzan.  "

I said that because you tried to equate the fuzzy glasses with an internet filter.   I was demonstrating to you logically that it is nothing like an internet filter.   It is like someone taking a computer and smashing it as his response to the fact that there are good and bad sites on the internet.
You respond with "smashing a computer is a good idea" 
I give up.


Lol, I hate religious people?   So I hate myself?   

How is it that I am  "more religious" than them?   They are the ones with insane sexual chumras.   They are the super frum.   But guess what.   It's my kids (someday) and your kids (someday) who will not be allowed into school unless their parent signs an agreement to walk around with fuzzy glasses.    Look, you are young and naive.  You don't understand the politics in our world.   It is getting sicker and sicker by the day and ENCOURAGING insane behavior does not help the Jewish people, it makes things worse.

Meanwhile, did I ridicule something here?   No.  I pointed out how dangerous it is.   And how harmful it is to the eyes.   And how stupid it happens to be.    So why do you take that as an insult?   How about, instead of taking offense or going on the defensive as if I'm "attacking" religious people, why don't you consider the points I made and not just assume it must be ok since an orthodox Jew is doing it.  Ever entertain the idea that I might be right about something?

You think it's a bad idea. I personally think the means justify ends. Just because it doesn't make sense to a lot of people doesn't mean it can't be beneficial to their society as a whole. If they feel that it has to come to this, who are we to tell them how to stay away from bad things? We're not in their shoes.

[The One and Only Mo]

WHAT?!

Let me see if I get this straight.  Your logic goes like this:    You have decided that there can't be a sakana involved since orthodox jews are doing xyz.   These Jews would never do something if it was incorrect or dangerous, therefore whatever they do, including thing xyz, cannot possibly be dangerous or incorrect since by definition Orthodox Jews Don't Do Dangerous Things.   Therefore wearing fuzzy glasses must be correct and wise.

Wow.  Logical fallacy.   

You think they would actually have a death wish? I see what your saying, but that's not what I meant. What I meant was that it's preposterous to think that they would just openly commit suicide as you say.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

You think it's a bad idea. I personally think the means justify ends. Just because it doesn't make sense to a lot of people doesn't mean it can't be beneficial to their society as a whole. If they feel that it has to come to this, who are we to tell them how to stay away from bad things? We're not in their shoes.

But by saying it's a really dumb idea, I'm not telling anyone to not stay away from bad things.

And Judaism is not machiavellian.  halacha operates by accounting for both the means and the ends.   We cannot just do things any way we want because we think it's a good end.      Tzedek Tzedek Tirdof is often explained how we have to pursue justice properly, not just pursue justice (why the word is repeated).