Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Shalom
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on August 22, 2012, 04:33:41 PM ---Abraham was not a Jew in the sense that he was not at Sinai... It is said that he kept the Torah.... It is also said that Noah knew what the Kosher animals were despite the Torah not having been given. My point is that the Torah, in a spiritual/mystical sense, existed before the creation of the Jewish people.
I don't know why you insist I am saying something other than this.
--- End quote ---
Because you did say something other than this. It's in your own words.
it doesn't make sense to say avos or anyone before sinai practiced judaism, even if you want to say they followed Torah principles and laws in some ways. Still not the same thing.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on August 22, 2012, 04:42:50 PM ---You are attempting again to twist my words KWRBT... I don't know why you seem to resort to the same kind of arguing, arguing a straw man argument.
--- End quote ---
Don't you get the fact that it doesn't make sense to accuse me of a straw man when I quoted you directly in your own words?
Now, what are these "mystical aspects" you speak of? Do you know that there are different ways to interpret verses and you have no proof of how Jews in the midbar viewed these things?
Citing the old age of mysticism as a proof of authority really doesn't help you. Especially when the text doesn't emerge until the 1300s and some key beliefs of kaballah are plainly contradicted. In the writings of the gaonim
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on August 22, 2012, 04:46:00 PM ---It is a fact that Sefer Yetzirah existed before the writing of the Talmud because the Talmud mentions this Sefer Yetzirah:
--- End quote ---
I fail to see how that matters. Sefer yetzirah doesn't contain modern kabala in it.
2. If sefer yetzirah existed before the writing of the talmud, what does that mean about sefer yetzirah? Please elaborate on this point (if there is one).
3. Bear in mind, the talmud wasn't written probably until at least the 700's and some say even later. Why is this relevant?
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
Ignoring for a moment the fact that sefer yetzirah does not contain zohar or modern kabalah in it, I pose the following:
Does something become true because it's old?
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: The One and Only Mo on August 22, 2012, 06:03:32 PM ---He would never do that.
--- End quote ---
Great post. So mature and intellectual.
So tell me, how do I twist muman's words by quoting him directly?
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