Taglit-Birthright Israel FREE ten day trips...(18-26 yrolds)

[Israel Chai]

If you go on the non-frum trip, it's a 10 day party filled with drinking, drugs, and sex.

Very hard to find drugs in Israel.

[The One and Only Mo]

Mo, you are a great Jew!

[The One and Only Mo]

Very hard to find drugs in Israel.

Hash is pretty easy to find. Palestine has more of that stuff

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

For calling it for what it is!

[The One and Only Mo]

Very hard to find Palestine in Israel.

Follow your nose.

[Israel Chai]

Follow your nose.

 

Jerusalem is simultaneously the most inspiring and most depressing sight in the world, when looking at it by the east. If that weird little mosque didn't have a gold roof on it, it would just be the greatest eye-sore in architectural history. Instead, it allows Arabs to make their side of Jerusalem just dirt and shrubs, except for the outcropping where everything a village needs is huddled in one disorganized plot.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

So did we agree on whether these trips are a good or a bad thing?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

So did we agree on whether these trips are a good or a bad thing?

 Like I said their are many different types of groups and trips. Obviously one should not go to a group which is more of a "party group" in fact they advertise themselves as that in order to get more people to sign up with them. One should choose one of the more traditionalist- Orthodox groups.

[Israel Chai]

So did we agree on whether these trips are a good or a bad thing?

I vote they ****ing rock. They involve being in Israel.

[Rubystars]

I don't understand why they only allow such young adults to go on their trips since the whole point is the first time trip to Israel and many older people haven't had a first time trip either.

[Israel Chai]

I don't understand why they only allow such young adults to go on their trips since the whole point is the first time trip to Israel and many older people haven't had a first time trip either.

To decline Noam and finklestein.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I don't understand why they only allow such young adults to go on their trips since the whole point is the first time trip to Israel and many older people haven't had a first time trip either.

 Perhaps $ and affordability (limited space available, and that is on every year as well). Older adults can more easily pay for themselves. People in that range usually cant. Also younger people are more open and able to go out and change the world etc. Perhaps and other reasons.

[Rubystars]

Perhaps $ and affordability (limited space available, and that is on every year as well). Older adults can more easily pay for themselves. People in that range usually cant. Also younger people are more open and able to go out and change the world etc. Perhaps and other reasons.

That makes sense.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I have to agree with Rubystars on this one. It still smacks of elitism to me, especially in this economy where a lot of older, more established people have lost everything through no fault of their own. Maybe some of these middle-aged Jews might find a fulfilling new life through aliyah if they were introduced to Israel in a birthright trip. All in all it doesn't seem to me like these trips are a good thing, especially in light of what Chaim has said about the Bronfmans. Obviously if even a couple young Jews become motivated to care about their homeland and fight to make it better through them, though, they have made the world a better place. But by and large, especially when one factors in the partying/debauchery, I am skeptical.

[AsheDina]

All Jews should flee America, ASAP if Hussein gets in again.

I am trying to talk David into getting out of this mess.  I see rockets all over America.  At least Israel is prepared. 

True, there is no real freedom, but at least we can have guns and live in semi peace.

[~Hanna~]

I would like to say here I am/was not advocating that in any way/shape or form...

I did not delve deeply into the politics of it, just thought if someone really wanted to go to Israel, this would be a way to do it (Baalam and the donkey. remember?) Sometimes we can use bad things to make good things out of them...well, it's biblical anyway....

Well G-d does that.

If you go on the non-frum trip, it's a 10 day party filled with drinking, drugs, and sex.

[The One and Only Mo]

As important at is it to go there, it is worse to commit a sin in Israel than it is in chutz la'aretz. For the kids who go to have drunken orgies, it's terrible. For the ones who simply do the touring, it is great.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I know you are not advocating that Hanna but this was something that JTFers should be warned about if they don't go on frum trips.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Quote from: The One and Only Mo on September 13, 2012, 10:59:08 PM
If you go on the non-frum trip, it's a 10 day party filled with drinking, drugs, and sex.

 These are technically not allowed on all trips. One can (and some people in the past did) get kicked out, sent home, where one had to pay for the plan ticket and other such things.

[The One and Only Mo]

Quote from: The One and Only Mo on September 13, 2012, 10:59:08 PM
If you go on the non-frum trip, it's a 10 day party filled with drinking, drugs, and sex.

 These are technically not allowed on all trips. One can (and some people in the past did) get kicked out, sent home, where one had to pay for the plan ticket and other such things.

Yes, I'm sure that they all follow the rules in private. I know plenty of people who "followed the rules" 

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Yes, I'm sure that they all follow the rules in private. I know plenty of people who "followed the rules" 

 Well are you going to blame the trip for the actions of some people you know?

 It is like blaming America for someone taking hard drugs at their own home and you blaming the whole country for the actions of individuals.
 Come on.

[Israel Chai]

Loosely enforced rules. If they said anything to the gay guys they would appear intolerant.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Loosely enforced rules. If they said anything to the gay guys they would appear intolerant.

 Again how is someone supposed to control someone being gay or not? Especially signing up for a 10 day trip?
  Guys don't get me wrong, If I had $, I would not spend it on them and these trips, because the $ could definitely be spend much better and much more efficiently (I think it comes out to ~ $15,000 a person). Rather give such $ to Hayamin and promotion of Torah as well, BUT if you have the opportunity to go to Israel for free, not only that but to extend your trip as well with a free plane ticket there and back I say why not take advantage of what is available for you? And those people who go to party in Israel, well that is what they do anywhere. No one can stop someone else from partying if they soo want to. But if you yourself are a serious person, I don't see why you should not go (especially with a religious group)  and enjoy Israel and even to just be there which itself is a Mitzwah. No one forces you to step into a club or take drugs (like someone suggested supposedly happens on these trips).

[Israel Chai]

 Again how is someone supposed to control someone being gay or not? Especially signing up for a 10 day trip?
  Guys don't get me wrong, If I had $, I would not spend it on them and these trips, because the $ could definitely be spend much better and much more efficiently (I think it comes out to ~ $15,000 a person). Rather give such $ to Hayamin and promotion of Torah as well, BUT if you have the opportunity to go to Israel for free, not only that but to extend your trip as well with a free plane ticket there and back I say why not take advantage of what is available for you? And those people who go to party in Israel, well that is what they do anywhere. No one can stop someone else from partying if they soo want to. But if you yourself are a serious person, I don't see why you should not go (especially with a religious group)  and enjoy Israel and even to just be there which itself is a Mitzwah. No one forces you to step into a club or take drugs (like someone suggested supposedly happens on these trips).

They can be gay. I won't like it or do anything about it. It's when they take showers together that the rules ought to matter. As for drugs, everyone whines about their childhood and friends, but their reaction to even negative events is still their choice, but they do it to hide the fact that their taking drugs was, and continues to be a choice. You know what forget drugs and normal sex, G-d never had to turn to meteors for those. When you take a shower with another man while half the group is in your room, and then spend the next day complaining about the dead sea hurting your filthy butt to everyone, the minimum you've merited is a good, hearty shut the - up. Half the people hated me for opposing gay "marriage" and street demonstrations, but its a big funny joke when they go around saying "bathe in my homosexuality". If we weren't in Israel and apparently I'm not allowed to hurt fellow Jews there, I'd leave his teeth bathing in his stomach. Not that I'm violent, but when people trumpet their evil for attention, I like to educate on what that bad attention earns you. Like a teacher, or Sensei, a Japanese word meaning "student that came before"; as kids many used foolishness (hopefully nothing worse) for attention, and if it isn't "driven from you", it can evolve into adult problems like that, but with learning, better late than never.

[~Hanna~]

If you go on the non-frum trip, it's a 10 day party filled with drinking, drugs, and sex.

i just would like it to be known that i was not promotiing any of this behavior, in any way, shape or form. it was from pure motives...