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What Etrog should one use?

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muman613:
Regularly posters here at JTF curse the leaders of Israel. Are they any less heretical than those Orthodox Jews who refuse to recognize the leaders of the criminal state? Is the 'State' of Israel acting in the best interests of the Jewish people when they 'disengage' Jewish towns and evict their Jewish citizens? Is it a Jewish state where Homo parades occur on Shabbat? I am conflicted with the entire state of Israel business, and my JTF experience makes me so sick of Bibi and the political system that sometimes I think it is wrong to keep this state going.

All Orthodox Jews want to establish a religious Jewish state. But the state which exists now does not deserve the support of truly religious Jews. It is better for Jews to sin in Chutz LaAretz than in the holy land. The punishment for Jews who violate Torah is worse if they live in the land.

Just being opposed to the current secular state DOES NOT make one a heretic... Sorry dan.. Go convert to Islam where your slander would be appreciated.

muman613:
The Eidah HaCharedis settled the land LONG LONG before the establishment of the state.


--- Quote ---The Edah is mainly formed by people whose ancestors arrived in Jerusalem and the Land of Israel long before the founding of the State of Israel. Many of them maintain the classical customs of Jerusalem — the Yerushalmi minhagim — such as the gold kaftan worn on Shabbos. Nowadays, the groups include: Satmar, Dushinsky, Toldos Aharon, Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok, Spinka, Brisk, Sanz-Tshokave, Perushim, a faction of Breslover hasidim led by Rabbi Yaakov Meir Shechter and Mishkenos HoRoim.
--- End quote ---

muman613:

--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on September 28, 2012, 09:17:12 PM ---It says their conversions are not recognized by the State of Israel, and one of their head rabbis was Joel Teitelbaum, the Satmar Rebbe, who is a heretic.  And once again, the definition of lashon hara is not "that which is unacceptable to muman613".  Perhaps there is no major issue with their hechsher, but that doesn't negate the statements I made.

--- End quote ---

Lashon Hara is stating anything which denigrates a fellow Jew. You are incapable of Lashon Hara, which is my point, so you are free to slander righteous Jews all you want.

And who is it who labeled Teitelbaum a heretic? Can you find such a statement? I have searched several Jewish sources and your statement doesn't appear correct.

Again, a heretic is not someone 'who holds an opinion which is against the opinion of Dan Ben Noach'... It has a specific definition, if you want I will bring it...

muman613:
Dan Ben Noach, according to your Rebbe Rambam the definition of a Heretic is below:

http://www.torah.org/learning/mlife/LORch3-6.html

Regarding the World to Come:

"The following are the ones who do not have a portion in the World to Come, but rather are cut off, perish, and are judged for their great wickedness and sinfulness eternally. (1) Agnostics; (2) Heretics; (3) Those who deny the Torah; (4) Those who deny the Resurrection; (5) Those who deny the arrival of the Redeemer (i.e. the Messiah) (6) Apostates; (7) Those who cause the many to sin; (8) Those who separate from the ways of the community; (9) One who sins unashamedly (lit. 'with a high hand') and publicly such as Yehoyakim (Jehoiakim); (10) Those who give over [Jews to Gentile authorities]; (11) Those who place fear on the community not for the sake of heaven; (11) Murderers; (12) Those who regularly engage in evil speech (lit., 'masters of evil speech'); (13) One who stretches out his circumcision (making him appear uncircumcised)."

http://www.torah.org/learning/mlife/LORch3-8a.html


--- Quote ---
"There are three types of heretics ('apikorsim').

(1) One who says there is no prophecy at all and there is no knowledge which comes from the Creator to the hearts of man.

(2) One who denies the prophecy of our teacher Moses.

(3) One who says that the Creator does not know the deeds of man.

Each of these three is considered a heretic."
--- End quote ---

muman613:
Dan,

I apologize for getting upset at you about this. But basically it seemed to me you were insulting my Etrog which was certified Kosher by this organization. I spoke with Chaim about this and he assured me that no matter what concerning the organization, their hecsher is valid and my Etrog is indeed Kosher and my mitzvah is valid.

You are entitled to think what you want. While the organization may not be ideal it's Hescher is still considered valid by all Jews around the world.

I should not let anyone upset me like this, and I apologize but it is important to me to do the mitzvah correctly. I felt you were attempting to invalid my mitzvah and the mitzvah of my entire community.

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