Author Topic: Shalom  (Read 18997 times)

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Offline Dan Ben Noah

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Shalom
« on: October 08, 2012, 09:14:14 PM »
Shalom
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 09:40:07 PM by Dan Ben Noah »
Jeremiah 16:19 O Lord, Who are my power and my strength and my refuge in the day of trouble, to You nations will come from the ends of the earth and say, "Only lies have our fathers handed down to us, emptiness in which there is nothing of any avail!

Zechariah 8:23 So said the Lord of Hosts: In those days, when ten men of all the languages of the nations shall take hold of the skirt of a Jewish man, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."

Offline muman613

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2012, 06:04:06 PM »
what are the meanings of  ervah, zonah, arayot and kerait ?

Ervah = uncovered area
Zonah = a woman who had been intimate with a non-Jewish man/ or a prostitute
Arayot = Any forbidden sexual/intimate relation
Kerait = Excommunication/cut off from the Jewish people

See also:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1340046/jewish/Can-Someone-Be-Cut-Off-From-G-d.htm

Quote
http://www.torah.org/learning/women/class29.html

So Pinchas and Calev cross the Jordan into Israel, and stop for the night in the city of Jerico, at the house of an innkeeper named Rahav. The Hebrew word for innkeeper is "zonah", which comes from the word "mazon" (food). Rachav is referred to in the Book of Joshua as "isha zonah", which can be translated as "a female innkeeper, who provided food for people".

But the word "zonah" also means prostitute. Rahav was a prostitute, involved with many people, and she supported herself by running a brothel disguised as an inn.

http://www.torahweb.org/torah/2007/parsha/rhab_acharei.html

Quote
Much of the ends of Parshiyos Acharei-Mos and K'doshim are devoted to a detailed description of the many prohibitions against ‘arayot (forbidden relations) with Acharei-Mos containing the azharot, the prohibitions, and K'doshim containing the ‘onshim, the punishments. The devotion of two entire sections of the Torah to these prohibitions indicates their centrality. This is further verified by the punishment of kareis (excision) imposed on violators and the fact that these prohibitions are one of only three categories of prohibitions that necessitate forfeiting one's life even in private and not during a time of religious persecution (sh'as hash'mad) rather than violate them (see Rambam, Hilchos Y'sodei HaTorah 5:2).
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2012, 10:53:31 PM »
I'm aware there are laws that are actual commandments in both the Torah and the Talmud. Then there are other rabbinical prohibitions which aren't actually commandments from G-d. This book being quoted from here what is that  & is it just prohibitions or are these laws from the Talmud? I know they aren't in the Torah. ..Sorry but i don't know any orthodox or religious jewish people to ask that to. what is this mishna book? Is it from the  Talmud, Torah or just rabbis making a fence (prohibitions) There are many instances in the Torah of jews marrying righteous gentiles so in those marraiges (assuming these are not prohibitions but actual commandments set forth here on this page) are they still relevant? Doesn't G-d make the match???? So why would He then condemn it????
Very interesting question!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2012, 11:02:15 PM »
What's an example of a Jew marrying a righteous Gentile?
Solomon, Moses, and Joseph. I think...
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2012, 11:17:02 PM »
Alot of Jews marrying gentile in the Torah......Moses., Boaz, Joseph, Abraham who married Hagar after Sarah died, King Solomon, ......I think my questions are way too heavy for this board.......I think they're too heavy for me at the moment.i think I need a professional so I'll call Chabad in the morning ..
What are you a ... Jew, a Christian, or a troll?
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2012, 11:32:21 PM »
Solomon, Moses, and Joseph. I think...

 No, No, and no.

 Solomon converted them.
 Moses and Joseph married before Mattan Torah so the prohibition of marrying a gentile did not apply. Their status was all as "gentiles" or another way- not Jewish. After receiving the Torah Moshe and his wife became Jewish.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2012, 11:35:31 PM »
No, No, and no.

 Solomon converted them.
 Moses and Joseph married before Mattan Torah so the prohibition of marrying a gentile did not apply. Their status was all as "gentiles" or another way- not Jewish. After receiving the Torah Moshe and his wife became Jewish.
Thanks Tag!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2012, 11:44:21 PM »
@ Ephraim.i was about to answer you then went to look up what a troll was. ..My question was neither inflammatory or off the subject. And this was my first and after your nasty reply last time ever posting or requesting info on any forum. Your question was assanine and you have zero class. (to put it kindly)
Well, trolls usually start their first conversations off with conflict! Prove me wrong!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2012, 11:48:05 PM »
If your not a troll ... toughen up! I actually liked your question.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2012, 12:09:45 AM »
@ Ephraim.i was about to answer you then went to look up what a troll was. ..My question was neither inflammatory or off the subject. And this was my first and after your nasty reply last time ever posting or requesting info on any forum.
If anyone believes this crap, I'll leave the forum!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2012, 12:12:17 AM »
Your question was assanine and you have zero class. (to put it kindly)
Thank you!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2012, 12:40:40 AM »
Solomon, Moses, and Joseph. I think...

No, they all converted to judaism...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2012, 12:45:12 AM »
Ruth was a convert. This is so obvious as we have the book of Ruth which documents her conversion. She most certainly was jewish when she married Boaz.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2012, 12:48:45 AM »
Sarah was a proto-jew just as our father Abraham was a proto-jew. Hagar was not married to Abraham, she was Sarahs slave. Ishmael was not a jew, his mother did not convert till Sarah died. Her name was changed after the conversion to Keturah.

The Torah clearly specifies that the Jewish nation is descended through Abrahams son Isaac, and through his son Jacob, not through Ishmael or Essau...

Before Mattan Torah (The giving of the Torah) the patriarchs kept the Torah to the best of their ability. There are cases where they did not follow the commands exactly, and they are punished (in a way) for these errors. For example Jacob marries two sisters which, we learn in these halachas, is forbidden by the Torah.

See also : http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/101035/jewish/How-Could-Jacob-Marry-Two-Sisters.htm

Quote
We are told that Jacob married both Rachel and Leah, and later Bilhah and Zilpah, all daughters of Laban. Now since we have a tradition that the forefathers kept the entire Torah, even though it had not yet been given—how can it be that Jacob married four sisters, when we are told,1 “You shall not take a woman to her sister”—that is, one may not marry the sister of one’s wife?

Perhaps we could say that Rashi does not comment on the problem because when the “five-year-old” learns this Parshah, he does not know that Jacob’s act was forbidden (for the law does not appear until Vayikra (Leviticus), and the child has not yet reached that book). However, this will not do, for Rashi does not explain the difficulty even later on.

Alternatively, it is possible that Rashi felt that, amongst the many explanations of the point given in other commentaries, there was one sufficiently obvious enough that he was not bound to mention it. But this also will not explain his silence. First of all, there are many disagreements among these other commentators, so the explanation is not obvious; and second, they are not explanations of the literal meaning of the text—which is therefore still wanting.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2012, 12:57:49 AM »
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13:ruth-mother-of-converts&catid=39&Itemid=512

Ruth, the Mother of all Converts

Every religion has its heroes and role models. For converts to Judaism, the Biblical Ruth, the daughter of the king of Moab, is the archetypical personality. Ruth and her forlorn mother-in-law, Naomi, suffered greatly losing their husbands in Moab. Without any apparent motive or personal benefit, Ruth placed her lot with the Jewish people. Ruth’s persistence in staying with Naomi and her proclamation, "…Your people shall be my people, and your God my God. Where you die, I will die…” remain inspirational rallying cries for converts in every generation. She wholeheartedly accepted the tenets of Judaism and became the consummate faithful Jew, and the great-grandmother of King David – the heir to the Messiah.

The story of Ruth is read on the Pentecostal holiday called Shavuot (Feast of Weeks). One of the reasons for reading the Scroll of Ruth is that Shavuot commemorates the people of Israel receiving the Torah, just like Ruth did as an individual. Ruth’s very name in Hebrew alludes to this concept. “Gematria” or numerology is one of the techniques of Biblical exegesis (or methods of extracting meaning from Scripture), where hidden messages can be revealed. The three Hebrew letters that form her name are Reish-Vav-Tuf. In Gematria, Ruth’s name adds up to 606. What does that mean?

All non-Jews are bound by the covenant of Noah. The Talmud demonstrates how verses in the Torah teach us that when Adam was created, God gave him six basic laws of morality to observe. After the Flood of Noah, mankind was given one more, not tearing a limb from a live animal (general prohibition of caused pain to animals). These seven universal laws are known in Judaism as the “Sheva Mitzvot B’nei Noach,” or Seven Noahide Laws. As an ethical non-Jew, Ruth had already accepted these seven laws. With her conversion to Judaism, she became obligated in 613. The difference between these two numbers is 606, the numerology of her name. Thus, we find a hint in this matriarch’s very identity to her being a model for conversion. However, her connection to conversion doesn’t end there.

Being a “stranger” to a particular group or faith is normally beset with feelings of isolation or social discomfort. For a convert to Judaism, there also exists this notion. One can remain an outsider, even after they’ve matriculated through the process and committed themselves to a strictly religiously Jewish lifestyle. A convert travels a very lonely road. Can we learn anything else from the example of Ruth as to how one can transition into the ranks of the Jewish people, and ultimately “Fit in?”

The sages of Israel teach, “Dearer to God than all the Israelites who stood at Mt Sinai is the convert. Had the Israelites not witnessed the lightning, thunder, and trembling mountain, and had they not listened to the sounds of the shofar, they would not have accepted the Torah. But the convert, who did not see or hear any of these things, surrendered to God and accepted the yoke of Heaven. Can anyone be dearer to God than that?” (Midrash Tanchuma Lech Lecha 6:32) The secret to success in Jewish commitment might be found in the “surrender to God” process that Ruth herself went through. But exactly how does that work?

Boaz, the leader of the Jewish people and a kinsman of Naomi’s late husband Elimelech, has just noticed Ruth, the proselyte, gleaning in his fields. He is overcome by her modest demeanor and kindness and replies “I have been fully informed of all that you have done for your mother-in-law after the death of your husband – how you left your father and mother (royalty) and the land of your birth and came to a people you had not known yesterday or previously. May God reward your deed, and may your payment be full from the Lord, the God of Israel, under Whose Wings you have come to seek refuge.” (Ruth 2:11-12)

Ruth is given a blessing from the leader of the Jewish people, “May your payment be full from the Lord…under whose wings you have come to seek refuge.” Perhaps Boaz was conveying to this sincere convert that having tasted royalty, opulence and “the good life,” during her previous existence might leave unrealistic expectations upon joining a newly adopted people. Things might get very rough. Even the most idealistic nation has members who often don’t embrace the proper attitude toward newcomers. Ruth is reminded, therefore, that she has entered the comforting wings of the Divine Presence. The enduring message for the rest of us is this; One’s ability to “surrender to God” is the greatest attribute a person can use in finding his/her place among the Chosen People.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2012, 12:50:33 PM »
Those "simple" questions have life changing consequences for me. I have built a life and a family with a man who i love and believe is my destiny. I hope my answer is as simple of having him convert to judaism which until now i have been unwilling to allow him to do because i didn't want him to do it just do it for me. I've been waiting for him to want to do it for himself. He is an incredible supporter of the jews and Israel as are his family and he believes jesus was just a man but not a god. He doesn't laugh at my being kosher or observing Shabbos when my own family does..His mother keeps a separate area in her home for kosher things..My mother and sister call me up just to tell me they are having lobster...would i like to come over.  He even has a star of David tatoo on his neck for me..How can G-d be against that? I can't believe . As a baal Tshuva with no observant friends or family i study on my own &  His family is the only  real family i know & I never knew jews were forbidden from intermarraige if the jewish person remained jewish( if that is actually true). I have a call in to a (hopefully nicer ) orthodox rabbi to find out what this mishna is and if these are actual laws or prohibitions. So i'm glad my questions are so simple to you. I hope the answers will be as simple for me . Ephraim you are a mental defect and David ben Noah you are a callous [censored].

Shalom her majesty,

I apologize for my colleagues apparent rudeness but I ask that you forgive them. Both Ephraim and Dan are very righteous and have good intention. The problem is that JTF has had many people come with ill intent, and attempt to divide the forum which is why the 'troll' accusation was leveled. I do not believe you are a troll and I take your explanation seriously.

We do not want to drive Jews away from their heritage. It is important for all Jews to do 'teshuva' and return to the ways of our forefathers. As you consider yourself a 'Baal Teshuva' and have made efforts to follow the 613 commandments I will attempt to help you by pointing you toward resources which will assist you in this tricky situation you seem to be in.

I know from experience because I too am a Baal Teshuva who returned 10 years ago. I too had intermarried to a non-Jewish woman even though I knew it was not permitted by the Jewish religion {My parents provided both my brother and myself with a basic Jewish education and a Bar Mitzvah (conservative)}. If you were truly not taught by your parents that it is not permitted for a Jew to marry out of the religion then I am very sorry about that, but you should be proud that you now are on the correct path. Now all that is needed is rectification for the mistakes which were made.

Your husband should convert if it is in his heart to do so. He should not do it just because you want him to do it, this will almost always back-fire in our face (converts can become anti-semites). But you must be able to present to him a Judaism which is inviting and spiritually fulfilling. I hope that the website and videos which we recommend here will help persuade him to see the advantages of being Jewish (and the disadvantages).

I do recommend you contact a local Chabad Rabbi and discuss your life situation with him. I have utmost trust in the wise wisdom of the Chabad Rabbis as I currently know personally three good Chabad rabbis in my area. If you prefer you can talk with any Orthodox rabbi who should be able to explain to you why we forbid intermarriage (and the Torah and Talmud sources for these prohibitions).

Please do not form your opinion of the entire JTF by this initial thread. I have great hope that you will grow by reading this forum, and hopefully you will be able to move your husband to take up Torah study. One thing to note though is that Judaism also forbids Tattoos  ( http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/631046/jewish/Why-Does-Judaism-Forbid-Tattoos.htm ) so it might be better for him to cover it while initially talking with the Rabbi.

Have a great day,
muman613

See also:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/52730/jewish/part-I-1-7.htm
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2012, 02:54:59 PM »
Thanks.i sent an email to chabad.org and 1 to aish.com. I never met people as conservative as myself, and your views are almost as far to the right as mine are, and it appears in my attempt to try and satiate that desire for both Torah knowledge and jewish news that fit into my crazy little box of what i think is right it appears this link has opened up a can of worms that although i know is bashert ..my stomach turns at the implications now.  And i get what you're saying are the rationalizations of the above but my respect is earned not given so no i don't forgive them. (your rabbi kahane used to come to my home when i was little......i remember him asking me to punch him in the stomach as hard as i could ( i was like 7) and i remember so well  him making this face like i really hurt him and i started to cry..cause i felt bad i thought i relaly hurt him. after that i started karate at the old jdl.. ( a thousand years ago) I don't know why people become baaltshuv, but i think it's people...dead .family or others mabey that we never even met before who go to G-ds throne and see that a family has gone completley secular so they pray and ask G-d to make someone return..i don't know but the only time i remember  religious people in my home as a child were rabbi kahana and shlomo carlebach who are both dead so mabey it was one of them..i don't know. but no i am not a troll..just a baaltshuva who got stuck in my learning i think.

Very interesting story... I just don't understand how you missed the important concept that intermarriage is forbidden because both Rabbi Kahane and Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach spoke frequently about preventing intermarriage...

http://www.torchweb.org/torah_detail.php?id=47

Quote
The basic problem with the book – and a problem that many Jews who are trying to solve the problem of intermarriage share - is clear from a story Dershowitz tells on himself. He notes that he would not himself wish to marry a non-Jewish woman, yet cannot fully explain to his own children why they should not. (In fact, Dershowitz relates, one of his sons married a Gentile.) His difficulties in thinking through the issue came to a head in a debate with the late Rabbi Meir Kahane, which Dershowitz--a brilliant debater--admits having lost:"

He asked me whether I wanted my children to marry Jews. Without hesitation, I said yes. Then he asked whether my desire was based on Halachah [Jewish law]. I said no. "Then," he insisted, pointing a finger at me, "you are nothing but a racist." I was taken aback by this strident accusation, but Kahane explained: "There are plenty of wonderful non-Jewish people who would make marvelous spouses for your children. Why are you excluding them all, unless you are obligated to exclude them by religious law? If you are merely expressing an ethnic preference for one of your own kind - that is the essence of racism." If Kahane was unkind in using the term "racist," his basic point was right. What possible reason is there to remain Jewish [especially] if one lacks deep cultural and ethnic roots--now very rare among American Jews--unless one actually believes in Judaism as a religion?

http://www.globalyeshiva.com/profiles/blogs/rabbi-meir-kahanes-legacy

Quote
In 1968, he founded the Jewish Defense League as a response to the rising tide of anti-Semitism in America's inner cities. Under Rabbi Kahane's leadership, JDL members engaged in protests against anti-Semitic teachers in the public school system, provided escorts for elderly Jews and educated Jewish youth in the art of self-defense. With a membership numbering over 15,000, the JDL organized mass rallies in New York against the Soviet Union's policy of persecuting Zionist activists and curbing Jewish immigration to Israel and they played the lead role in the "Free Soviet Jewry" movement through campaigning for the release of Russian refuseniks and their emigration to Israel. JDL also protested against the oppression of Jewish population in Muslim countries, battled Neo-Nazis and white supremacists in the United States and resisted Christian missionaries' activity to convert Jews.
In 1980, Rabbi Kahane formed the Kach political party in Israel and in 1984 was elected as a Member of the Knesset (MK). Rabbi Kahane refused to take the standard oath of office upon his election and insisted on adding a verse from Tehillim to indicate that when secular laws and Torah conflict, Torah law should have supremacy over the laws of the Knesset. Rabbi Kahane's legislative proposals focused on transferring the hostile Arab population out of Israel, revoking the Israeli citizenship for non-Jews and banning Jewish-Gentile marriages and sexual relations, based on the Code of Jewish Law compiled by the Rambam in the Mishneh Torah.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2012, 03:04:13 PM »


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2012, 04:26:04 PM »
i was a kid. i'm sure r kahane never discussed that with me, and shlomo carlebach never once spoke about religion to me...i don't think my parents would have allowed either of them to even if they had tried. Until i watched a video this week on youtube i never heard rabbi kahana  speak before and never i have never read any of  his books.. and as for shlomo i didn't even know he was a rabbi.i thought he was just a singer with a kipa on..we talked about things but never judaism.as i stated my parents would probably not have allowed either of them to. (my sister is a lesbian)They are both proud jews but G-d was never spoken of in our home xcpt by  my housekeeper who i spent most of my childhood with  since my parents went away alot so she was very religious and taught me christianity and brought me to black churches and i always knew G-d was real so believed her..but until i got older and started to study the origions of what she was teaching me finally came to the conclusion that what she taught me wasn't real. I never went to high school but i did always continue studying  about religions trying to figure out  what was real  but until someone gave me a Torah when i was 20 that was the first time i had ever read or seen that.then .one day after a decade of reading it i realised that the things it said were commandments and that i was supposed to do them,,so i stopped reading it and started studying it..After being let down in the morals department by every rabbi i ever met i just kept to the 613 commandments that i know are commandments, but stopped doing the prohibitions one of which i assum(ed) is not to intermarry. I 'm basically an observant jew (xcpt for the way i dress) living in a secular world which i don't mind a bit..I study Torah every day but never anything but Torah and Talmud....so still awaiting to see what the story is with this page and if it is actual laws or what...i'm not sure whats in ^ box.it's blank on my computer if it was meant for me to see. Are you a rabbi? Is what you write from your mind or quotes form other sources.

Shalom,

I am not a Rabbi though the thought has crossed my mind to go to Yeshiva to get Shmicha (ordination). I am a full-time Software Engineer at a technology company in Silicon Valley. I post my opinions but I always try to find the sources and post links to those sources.

I don't know what you mean 'prohibitions'? There are 613 commandments in the Torah, of these there are 248 positive (thou shall) commandments and 365 negative (thou shall not) commandments in the Torah. The negative commandments (all 365) are considered 'prohibitions'.

PS: I posted a video which discussed the issue of intermarriage..

See also:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/901695/jewish/Positive-Commandments.htm

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/901723/jewish/Negative-Commandments.htm


http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/e0002.htm

Negative Command # 52

52. Not to marry gentiles, as [Deuteronomy 7:3] states: "Do not marry among them."

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/148995/jewish/On-Intermarriage.htm
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2012, 06:51:45 PM »
Also, another question I would like to bring up in this thread to those who know more about the Mishneh Torah:

This chapter on forbidden sexual relations appears to include the laws for conversion because conversion status affects whether someone is permissible/forbidden for marriage to Jews.  I did not see anything in the conversion laws about converts having to take on a new name at their conversion and I'm not sure if there's another place that discusses it.  Is re-naming converts a practice that has a basis in the Mishneh Torah at all or does it only come from other sources/traditions?

 Perhaps when the Rambam talks about a Jew doing Teshuva as well. Just like in that case he has a new "identity" soo to speak, soo too for a convert who becomes a new person.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2012, 07:35:56 PM »
Mental defect? That was not very nice at all! :'( :::D
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2012, 08:37:18 PM »
I'm unable to see a video.just a blank box with an x. I'll try  with another laptop tonight. . By prohibitions i mean what i believe are rabbinical prohibitions..like putting a fence arounf the Torah with rabbinical prohibitions that are not commandments like touching money on shabbos, or tearing toilet paper.I need to get the house and dinner ready but hope to have time later to read up more as these posts are incredibly loooooong and much to go thru  to get to the parts that are of concern to me. Have a good night and Shabbos and sorry for taking up too much time. Glad you're not a rabbi since i'd just find fault in you if you were :P

To answer your question about intermarriage it is not a rabbinic commandment but a Torah commandment as we pointed to the actual pasuk which forbids a Jew from marrying a non-Jew. Of course if the gentile converts (and he is not from a people who the Torah forbids (such as Moabite men)) then the marriage is permitted.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2012, 09:15:03 PM »
To answer your question about intermarriage it is not a rabbinic commandment but a Torah commandment as we pointed to the actual pasuk which forbids a Jew from marrying a non-Jew. Of course if the gentile converts (and he is not from a people who the Torah forbids (such as Moabite men)) then the marriage is permitted.

 We dont know anyone from that people today. All the nations are mixed thus the majority takes over and this nation doesn't exist no more.


.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2012, 09:17:08 PM »
I just checked the Mishneh Torah laws of repentance, and it does mention that a Jew changing his name is one way of saying that they are a new person when they have repented of a sin.  However I did not see anything requiring converts to change their names when they become Jews.

 I said the reason perhaps why they would and they do. Because its the same concept of becoming new people. Also with converts they usually have non-Jewish names beforehand but are then given a Jewish name like the rest of Am Yisrael (a question can be asked in situations where non-jews already have jewish names- for example Sarah or Leah or David).
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Rambam's Mishneh Torah: Book of Holiness: Forbidden Sexual Relations
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2012, 11:01:22 AM »
Its Rabbinic prohibition for a Jew to be with a gentile And the punishment if lashes. BUT it is Deorita (from the Torah which is more strict) to not marry a gentile, the prohibition is even more severe.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.