My thoughts on Scotch and white "nationalists".

[MasterWolf1]

These women that do go out and get abortions also do not know what they are doing for when the time comes and they want to have a baby what damage they are doing to their bodies.  And no matter how anyone slices it abortion is murder, and the only murder that everyone gets away from it.  Just imagine how our nations would be booming compared to the Muzzie world if all the babies that were aborted were born instead.

[Ehud]

You really believe that G-d forgives ALL sins and you can simply say G-d forgive me and it is all good?  That is ridiculous!  G-d definitely does not forgive murder.  Murder is a sin against man and not against G-d.  You can NEVER be forgiven for a murder because it has nothing to do with G-d it has to do ONLY with man.  The only way you would be forgiven for murder is if you could resurrect the dead and bring them back to life.  You can believe what you would like to believe about what G-d would forgive and what he wouldn't forgive but it is just speculation on your part and it doesn't mean anything.   

[Imerica]

You really believe that G-d forgives ALL sins and you can simply say G-d forgive me and it is all good?  That is ridiculous!  G-d definitely does not forgive murder.  Murder is a sin against man and not against G-d.  You can NEVER be forgiven for a murder because it has nothing to do with G-d it has to do ONLY with man.  The only way you would be forgiven for murder is if you could resurrect the dead and bring them back to life.  You can believe what you would like to believe about what G-d would forgive and what he wouldn't forgive but it is just speculation on your part and it doesn't mean anything.   

Most of the people who disagree with me are men who have never had children in their lives. NEVER. I had to choose between leaving my 3 children here without me if I'd died because of the sickness I had (and its apparent that you're not looking at the 'why' of the situation..you're looking at the fact that I had an abortion at all. I chose to stay here for my girls and my husband.

And YES, I believe God forgives if we ask for forgiveness. As a Christian I believe that and I have every right to.

[Dr. Dan]

These women that do go out and get abortions also do not know what they are doing for when the time comes and they want to have a baby what damage they are doing to their bodies.  And no matter how anyone slices it abortion is murder, and the only murder that everyone gets away from it.  Just imagine how our nations would be booming compared to the Muzzie world if all the babies that were aborted were born instead.

Hey masterwolf1.  I don't know how it is in Catholocism.  BUt in Judaism, abortion is only permitted when the mother's life is in danger...that is, if she is going to die, she is REQUIRED to have an abortion.

In the Torah it is written that when a man pushes a pregnant woman and the fetus dies, he pays a fine.  However, if he pushes her and mother and fetus both die, it is life for life.  Why a fine when just the fetus dies and life for life when the mother dies?  It is clearly an indication that the fetus is NOT equal to the life of the mother.

However, when we are talking about fetuses, we are also talking about potential life.  Therefore, according to the Rabbis, abortions are not allowed all the time.  But, as far as my knowledge understands, it is only REQUIRED when the health of the mother is goint to be affected which basically means leading to death.

In Imerica's case, this might have been the very situation.  Her life and health were in danger.  I don't care who this woman is or if it were any other woman, my wife (Gd forbid) or my daughter (Gd forbid)...if she's going to be severely affected healthwise by a fetus, that fetus is like cancer...a din rodef, a purusuer of life...the pregnancy must be terminated.

In my opinion, judging Imerica for having an abortion to SAVE HER LIFE makes a lot of you (not you, masterwolf) look like a bunch of LOSERS.  JTF doesn't want losers.

[MarZutra]

I believe you are correct Danny....  Imerica did the right thing.  I'm not hopping into this debate...  According to Torah Law there are times, like you have displayed, when something like this is warrented....

[nessuno]

I believe you are correct Danny....  Imerica did the right thing.  I'm not hopping into this debate...  According to Torah Law there are times, like you have displayed, when something like this is warrented....

I agree MarZutra -

[Sarah]

You really believe that G-d forgives ALL sins and you can simply say G-d forgive me and it is all good?  That is ridiculous!  G-d definitely does not forgive murder.  Murder is a sin against man and not against G-d.  You can NEVER be forgiven for a murder because it has nothing to do with G-d it has to do ONLY with man.  The only way you would be forgiven for murder is if you could resurrect the dead and bring them back to life.  You can believe what you would like to believe about what G-d would forgive and what he wouldn't forgive but it is just speculation on your part and it doesn't mean anything.   

Yes I agree that is COMPLETELY ridiculous!!

God Forgives who He jolly well wants to! He is the Most Merciful BUT in order for him to be the most JUST as well he must punish those who sin as well...even if they repent!

I could go and indulge in the most evil of sins and then cry my butt off for God to forgive me and will be forgiven completely?!
How about if the next day i repeated those sins and begged God to forgive me again?
What about the people who haven't been bad, or accumalated much sin yet are equal to those who have just because God has forgiven them?

[nessuno]

You really believe that G-d forgives ALL sins and you can simply say G-d forgive me and it is all good?  That is ridiculous!  G-d definitely does not forgive murder.  Murder is a sin against man and not against G-d.  You can NEVER be forgiven for a murder because it has nothing to do with G-d it has to do ONLY with man.  The only way you would be forgiven for murder is if you could resurrect the dead and bring them back to life.  You can believe what you would like to believe about what G-d would forgive and what he wouldn't forgive but it is just speculation on your part and it doesn't mean anything.   

Yes I agree that is COMPLETELY ridiculous!!

G-d Forgives who He jolly well wants to! He is the Most Merciful BUT in order for him to be the most JUST as well he must punish those who sin as well...even if they repent!

I could go and indulge in the most evil of sins and then cry my butt off for G-d to forgive me and will be forgiven completely?!
How about if the next day i repeated those sins and begged G-d to forgive me again?
What about the people who haven't been bad, or accumalated much sin yet are equal to those who have just because G-d has forgiven them?

To me it seems a personal decision -  One you must make and live with - to each his own beliefs. 

[nessuno]

C.F.  I love your passionate posts and you are a great member of the forum but I think this issue is not one we can or should judge a person on.  If Imerica says she had a medical reason for what she did - we should leave it alone.  She has to live with it everyday.  I hope that God would be able to forgive me if I ever had to make a really bad decision in life.  I experienced eclampsia when I had my child and we also spent some time in the Neonatal ICU - my baby weighed 4lb7oz when born.  It is a scary place.  I was scared for my health too.  Thank goodness that we have no disabilities to deal with. 
Sorry - I'm not trying to interfere - just my 2 cents.

[WhiteHawk]

Nazi Germany practiced eugenics too


i'm just saying

[MasterWolf1]

These women that do go out and get abortions also do not know what they are doing for when the time comes and they want to have a baby what damage they are doing to their bodies.  And no matter how anyone slices it abortion is murder, and the only murder that everyone gets away from it.  Just imagine how our nations would be booming compared to the Muzzie world if all the babies that were aborted were born instead.

Hey masterwolf1.  I don't know how it is in Catholocism.  BUt in Judaism, abortion is only permitted when the mother's life is in danger...that is, if she is going to die, she is REQUIRED to have an abortion.

In the Torah it is written that when a man pushes a pregnant woman and the fetus dies, he pays a fine.  However, if he pushes her and mother and fetus both die, it is life for life.  Why a fine when just the fetus dies and life for life when the mother dies?  It is clearly an indication that the fetus is NOT equal to the life of the mother.

However, when we are talking about fetuses, we are also talking about potential life.  Therefore, according to the Rabbis, abortions are not allowed all the time.  But, as far as my knowledge understands, it is only REQUIRED when the health of the mother is goint to be affected which basically means leading to death.

In Imerica's case, this might have been the very situation.  Her life and health were in danger.  I don't care who this woman is or if it were any other woman, my wife (Gd forbid) or my daughter (Gd forbid)...if she's going to be severely affected healthwise by a fetus, that fetus is like cancer...a din rodef, a purusuer of life...the pregnancy must be terminated.

In my opinion, judging Imerica for having an abortion to SAVE HER LIFE makes a lot of you (not you, masterwolf) look like a bunch of LOSERS.  JTF doesn't want losers.

Well in the Catholic faith it also applies if the mother's life is in danger or the child for that matter, and as far as rape goes.  It also applies that it is not the baby's fault, the only thing with that is the mother knows that the baby was not created out of love but through a violent act.  But I knew a young lady she was still a teen but already in the child birth giving years who was attacked and she gotten pregnant, she had a heavy anchor on her neck but she finally decided to give birth and keep the baby but being that she was young her parents helped her so she can finish school and is now a counceling nurse for rape victims such as herself. 

Personally Id like to see a law for any animal rapist who dares put his hands on a woman in such a disgusting and evil act to violate where he is not welcomed deserves the death penalty infront of a firing squad.  Not the baby.

[IntrepidLengenD]

I was responsible and used contraception, Einstein. You have no right to tell me what I should have done or what my husband should have done. I consult with G-d for my every problem, even with the problem I'm having with you right now. You aren't G-d so I dont' have ask your permission to do anything in my life. G-d forgives ALL sins. Not just ones you deem necessary. All I have to do is say "G-d forgive me" and he forgives. I believe that.

Why does this Reek of Liberalism and is yet high-strung like this is a  ....well....
Can anyone else even attempt to defend this ?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Bullcat, Erica didn't have a medical emergency. It was a "hardship" case--i.e. if she continued on with the problem pregnancy it would have been physically difficult for her to care for her existing children. She would not have died if she hadn't had the abortion. This business of her saying she had no choice is pathetic. She is no different from those who have abortions in order to keep their boyfriend, because they can't afford the kid, etc.

Every pregnancy is a "hardship". Most birth control methods short of sterilization (and even that can fail, although it is much, much less likely to) are very much unreliable. Get over it.

And no, guys, Erica, who is a liar (she said she was going to leave the forum three days ago!) has NOT repented of anything. She claims she asked for forgiveness but simultaneously defends her abortion and would do it again. Therefore, what exactly is she forgiven of? Who the hell does she think she is fooling with this sleight-of-hand game?

[WhiteHawk]

ban this baby-hating b*tch. i'm so sick of her.

[nessuno]

I appreciate your reply C.F.

ban this baby-hating b*tch. i'm so sick of her.

I would never think of calling for someone to be banned from the JTF forum - but for you WhiteHawk - I would make an exception.    That was uncalled for.

[MarZutra]

If anyone wants a Torah answer for this questions and any of similar sort go to Www.AskMoses.Com.  The are qualified to answer these sorts...

[Wayne Jude]

Such racism.Any abortion is wrong.We just care more about our killed kids...

[WhiteHawk]

Thats true. any abortin is wrong. The bible says murder is against the first COMMANDMENT

[Dr. Dan]

These women that do go out and get abortions also do not know what they are doing for when the time comes and they want to have a baby what damage they are doing to their bodies.  And no matter how anyone slices it abortion is murder, and the only murder that everyone gets away from it.  Just imagine how our nations would be booming compared to the Muzzie world if all the babies that were aborted were born instead.

Hey masterwolf1.  I don't know how it is in Catholocism.  BUt in Judaism, abortion is only permitted when the mother's life is in danger...that is, if she is going to die, she is REQUIRED to have an abortion.

In the Torah it is written that when a man pushes a pregnant woman and the fetus dies, he pays a fine.  However, if he pushes her and mother and fetus both die, it is life for life.  Why a fine when just the fetus dies and life for life when the mother dies?  It is clearly an indication that the fetus is NOT equal to the life of the mother.

However, when we are talking about fetuses, we are also talking about potential life.  Therefore, according to the Rabbis, abortions are not allowed all the time.  But, as far as my knowledge understands, it is only REQUIRED when the health of the mother is goint to be affected which basically means leading to death.

In Imerica's case, this might have been the very situation.  Her life and health were in danger.  I don't care who this woman is or if it were any other woman, my wife (Gd forbid) or my daughter (Gd forbid)...if she's going to be severely affected healthwise by a fetus, that fetus is like cancer...a din rodef, a purusuer of life...the pregnancy must be terminated.

In my opinion, judging Imerica for having an abortion to SAVE HER LIFE makes a lot of you (not you, masterwolf) look like a bunch of LOSERS.  JTF doesn't want losers.

Well in the Catholic faith it also applies if the mother's life is in danger or the child for that matter, and as far as rape goes.  It also applies that it is not the baby's fault, the only thing with that is the mother knows that the baby was not created out of love but through a violent act.  But I knew a young lady she was still a teen but already in the child birth giving years who was attacked and she gotten pregnant, she had a heavy anchor on her neck but she finally decided to give birth and keep the baby but being that she was young her parents helped her so she can finish school and is now a counceling nurse for rape victims such as herself. 

Personally Id like to see a law for any animal rapist who dares put his hands on a woman in such a disgusting and evil act to violate where he is not welcomed deserves the death penalty infront of a firing squad.  Not the baby.

I agree and disagree with you.  Once again, I have no desire to argue with you what your religion believes in with regards to the mother's life in danger if she gave birth. I disagree that her fetus takes presidence over her own life..but fine..it's a theological issue not meant for this forum.

In the situation of rape, according to Judaism, one is not allowed to get an abortion...it's sad..it's difficult, but the baby is innocent...the woman is supposed to give birth and she can give the baby away for adoption if she doesn't want to keep him/her.  How many people would actually practice this? Not very many, but according to Judaism, that woudl be the right thing to do.

As far as the violent rapist, my mom actually suggested castritation.  However, in one of the 613 commandments, we are not allowed to do that to any human being nor animal...So like you, I agree that every violent rapist should be put to death one way or another.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

ban this baby-hating b*tch. i'm so sick of her.

Hawk, while you are rather more forward and gruff about this than I would be, it would be a fabrication for me to say I don't feel out your sentiments on her. At times I do wonder if JTF would be as tolerant of her and her posts if she were white. I know we have to give every poster a chance until they prove that they are outright Nazis, but Erica hasn't shown the least bit of willingness to understand JTF points of view. In fact, she flames our national chairman pretty routinely.

Of course, like I said, that this woman has the gall to defend the murder of her own child bothers me a lot more than her bashing Chaim. As far as I am concerned that's the lowest of the low.

[IntrepidLengenD]

ban this baby-hating b*tch. i'm so sick of her.

Hawk, while you are rather more forward and gruff about this than I would be, it would be a fabrication for me to say I don't feel out your sentiments on her. At times I do wonder if JTF would be as tolerant of her and her posts if she were white. I know we have to give every poster a chance until they prove that they are outright Nazis, but Erica hasn't shown the least bit of willingness to understand JTF points of view. In fact, she flames our national chairman pretty routinely.

Of course, like I said, that this woman has the gall to defend the murder of her own child bothers me a lot more than her bashing Chaim. As far as I am concerned that's the lowest of the low.

This is unreal !  How can a decent, conservative organization like JTF allow Muslims and/or their Sympathizers to infiltrate this Forum with no retaliation ?

They may not be overt with their message, but they intend to debase this Noble Forum's Motives !  They should be monitored more closely for such a religious organization !

Abortion is Cruel and one should not be able to advocate such Immorality...especially Here !

[WhiteHawk]

well i apologize for my strong language. but you can see the anger here. Millions of babies die and GOD STRAIGHTFORWARDLY PREACHED AGIANST MURDER OF ANY SORT, EVEN IF ITS EUGENICS. so anyone that does that i have lost all respect for. and i thought more people wuld be on our side, since its the biblical side.

[nessuno]

well i apologize for my strong language. but you can see the anger here. Millions of babies die - and G-d STRAIGHTFORWARDLY PREACHED AGIANST MURDER OF ANY SORT, EVEN IF ITS EUGENICS. so anyone that does that i have lost all respect for. and i thought more people wuld be on our side, since its the biblical side.

It isn't a matter of sides - of course I'm on your side -  abortion is wrong.
I have learned that life is not so black and white  - that there is a lot of gray.

So to put it to rest - I do agree with you in principle.  I'm just not the one to make the call if it was right or wrong in Imerica's case - there is a higher power for that job.




 

[MarZutra]

well i apologize for my strong language. but you can see the anger here. Millions of babies die - and G-d STRAIGHTFORWARDLY PREACHED AGIANST MURDER OF ANY SORT, EVEN IF ITS EUGENICS. so anyone that does that i have lost all respect for. and i thought more people wuld be on our side, since its the biblical side.

It isn't a matter of sides - of course I'm on your side -  abortion is wrong.
I have learned that life is not so black and white  - that there is a lot of gray.

So to put it to rest - I do agree with you in principle.  I'm just not the one to make the call if it was right or wrong in Imerica's case - there is a higher power for that job.

Actually, I'd like to add onto this.  Life lived by the Laws/Torah/Talmud is Black and White with a small grey area.  The onslaught of Socialism and Liberal/Leftist "if it feels good..do it" mentality has shifted this moral code into something of "Well it might be wrong" or it "might be right" with a mass of grey area in between that is to be "rationalized" into something that it is not: Same Sex Marriage, Abortions, Murder, Slander, Theivery etc. 

As stated above, there are different situations in Torah law that allows such actions and others as well like breaking the Sabbath, Defense of ones Land/Home/Family etc.  My two cents...  For anyone who really wishes to ask questions and get a Torah answer the scholors on AskMoses.Com can and will help... 

[Serbian Cetnik (šumadinac)]

I personally have nothing against abortion WHEN... It's rape

But when its a stupid white collar [censored] (like paris hilton), that has sex without a condom, and finds out that she's pregnant.
THEN its murder.

Do you people even know why the Catholics don't allow abortion?

During the medieval ages, the catholic armies would rape women, and since abortion is not allowed, by the majority. The baby becomes Catholic... Easiest way to convert.