Peace - Salaam - Shalom

[ftf]

Right, lots to say.

Firstly, you did not counter my points, you sidestepped what I raised and responded with another out of context verse, read from suran 5 Ayat 20 through to surah 5 Ayat 28 (the one that you quoted), it is quite clear that this is again a report of an instruction that was apparently given to the Jews.

Now regarding your other points, you'll have to link me to the website you found them on so that I can see all the relevant details of what is being said.

The word Islam means Submission, there is little tht is peaceful or friendly in the word submission. There are many many report in the hadiths of Mohhammed leading his followers in the murder of non-muslims, there is at least one account of him raping a Jewish woman, and there is an account of him marrying a 6 year old, and then when he first had sex with her, she was playing with her dolls when her mother came and took her to the "prophet", you may say that the hadiths were fabricated, but if they were, answer me this how? when? why? There is some evidence that they were produced at very varried times, and yet they tell a consistant story of an evil violant sex addicted manl, if they were fabricated why are they consistant?

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

You simply cannot "convert" someone to Islam( make them a Muslim by force)
It is impossible as one has to CHOOSE to submit to the Will of G-d willingly to even BE a Muslim. Islam being spread by the sword is an outright lie. I belived I heard someone mention the Time when the Prophet lead the belives against a caravan? Well they forgot to mention how the Caravan was of their possesions that were stolen after they left Mecca. Plain and Simple you can't force someone to be a Muslim, its against the very word Islam.

Not only don’t you have respect for others, you have no respect for yourself.

Islam means submission!!!

Mohammed did not occupy the area from Indonesia to Morocco? He did not convert them into Islam?

Now I will tell you something so you could finally go back and read more books and not be so ignorant.

I am from Azerbaijan, the second largest Shiite Muslim country after Iran.

Azerbaijanis call themselves “Muslims by sword”!!! They admit that they were forced to convert.

And indeed the Azerbaijanis were either Christians or Zoroastrians before Arabs invaded them.

A national hero of Azerbaijan is a man named Babek (798 — 838 CE), who led the strongest resistance to Arabs in the history of Arab occupational wars.

Mohammed ordered his people to occupy as much of the world as they could and create Caliphates. So they did.

So if you want to argue on the kindergarten level, that is not the place for that, and I strongly suggest not to waste people’s time here.

[Abdullah]

First I cannot answer all questions when asked about SO many topics at once by Multiple people. I do intend to answer them but you will have to ask them again one at a time to be fair. I'm not saying one person at a time but a little less of a barrage.
The site is Canadian and Christian here is the link
http://www.bible.ca/ef/
Here is the site I like to use for the Qur'an
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=1&translator=5&mac=
 I would rather not have broad theological debates that don't really have a point, but meaningful discussion on certian topics. Please choose one at a time. Peace

[ftf]

I can't fond those comments on that chrsitian site, could you link me to the right page please.

[Shlomo]

Abdullah is giving up... he can't handle it. That didn't take long. I guess the JTF infidels might know something about islam.

[ftf]

Abdullah is giving up... he can't handle it. That didn't take long. I guess the JTF infidels might know something about islam.

Where did he say that he gives up? How dull, it was just looking like it might get interesting...

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

Abdullah is giving up... he can't handle it. That didn't take long. I guess the JTF infidels might know something about islam.

Where did he say that he gives up? How dull, it was just looking like it might get interesting...

Ftf, don't waste your time. He is not an honest and/or knowledgeable debater.

[ftf]

I enjoy debates whoever the opponent.

[Abdullah]

I diden't "give up"
Here is the exact link
http://www.bible.ca/ef/topical-the-bible-and-capital-punishment.htm
Peace

[ftf]

Ok, lets look at what is being said on that website, people who do evil things will be punished by their government, i.e. murderers will go to jail.

I'm not going to argue about the specific interpretation of those verses from the new testament that is posted on that site despite the fact that I think they are misunderstanding them, because even their misunderstanding does not lead to any evil ideas, only the idea that governments will puish criminals, which is common sense in any sane country.

[Abdullah]

Are there any more questions?

[ftf]

Are there any more questions?

You still haven't answered any of mine...

[Abdullah]

could you repeat one of them please?

[newman]

What is the arabic word for compomise?

PS: this is a trick question because there ISN'T one.

[Abdullah]

What does it matter? Is that a question?
Hate me as you like but please just send it to my e-mail

[newman]

What does it matter? Is that a question?
Hate me as you like but please just send it to my e-mail

NO. I'm going to do you publicly......one stroke at a time.

[Abdullah]

Yes and thats all your doing. please ask a question or something.
Its disrespectful to the fourm to clog it with pages of mindless hate

[ftf]

Newman, just shut up unless you have something logical to say, Abdullah:

In response to the earlier question here is the definition of a "Innocent civilian"- any non-combatant.
Its is not true that Islam say All non-Muslims are not innocent, actually quite the oppisite. The Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) once said " whoever harms a non-muslim citizen has harmed me" here is a verse from the Holy Qur'an that is of a similar theme- 5:32 " Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land"

If you give the refference for the quote "whoever harms a non-muslim citizen has harmed me" so i may look at the context I'll be able to comment about it, but for now I'll have to stick to the one that you have referenced.

Lets take this verse as it appears without added notes:

Quran Surah 5 Ayat 32:


"Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits in the land."

Firstly, this verse has no instructions in it for muslims at all "We ordained for the Children of Israel", it is talking about an instruction for Jews, not muslims. Now the definition of "spreading mischeif in the land" is a matter of great dispute, some muslims who do accept this verse as being intended to instruct muslims as well as Jews will also say that speaking against Islam is spreading mischeif in the land, so then this verse becomes an encouragement to kill non-muslims. Now if we look at the end of the verse "even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits" remembering that this verse was addressed at the beginning "We ordained for the Children of Israel" we see that the true intention of this verse is to call Jews evil. So far from being a message of peace, this verse is anti-semitic nazi style propoganda.

Do your research before making another point.

[newman]

Yes and thats all your doing. please ask a question or something.
Its disrespectful to the fourm to clog it with pages of mindless hate

The fact that someone who adheres to a religion that is dedicated to the mass murder of every Jew on this planet is on here is an insult to this forum.

BTW: No westerner converts to your vile religion unless they are unballanced. Are you a loonie or are you punnishing your parents for not buying you a pony when you were 10?

[newman]

Quote:
Newman, just shut up unless you have something logical to say


Pull your head in,ftf

You deal with the Jew-hater your way,I'll deal with him in mine. And if you don't like it.......TOUGH!

[ftf]

Newman, just shut up unless you have something logical to say, Abdullah:

Please be respectful to the other posters.

I cannot respect someone who is not respectful of me or others.

[newman]

Newman, just shut up unless you have something logical to say, Abdullah:

Please be respectful to the other posters.

I cannot respect someone who is not respectful of me or others.

If you think any Jew, Noachide is going to be respecful to ANY nazi, you have a screw loose.

[Abdullah]

Firstly to newman- This is the last message that I will reespond to of yours. I will not waste my time or energy trying to talk with someone who is so blind and hateful.

Next to ftf- You forget that we belive that the Jews were also muslims, meaning one who submits to God. We belive that the Jews have strayed from Islam scince but it was to all Muslims.

[newman]

Firstly to newman- This is the last message that I will reespond to of yours. I will not waste my time or energy trying to talk with someone who is so blind and hateful.

Next to ftf- You forget that we belive that the Jews were also muslims, meaning one who submits to G-d. We belive that the Jews have strayed from Islam scince but it was to all Muslims.

That is one of many examples of your vile herassy.

[ftf]

Firstly to newman- This is the last message that I will reespond to of yours. I will not waste my time or energy trying to talk with someone who is so blind and hateful.

Next to ftf- You forget that we belive that the Jews were also muslims, meaning one who submits to G-d. We belive that the Jews have strayed from Islam scince but it was to all Muslims.

The verse that you are quoting though specifically says  that it was an instruction Jews, and then goes onto say that they didn't keep it, and therefore should be punished. Hence my reasoning in calling it anti-semitic. If it was a command for all muslims it would say it straight out rather than saying "SO we said to the people of moses" or "so we said to the Jews".