Anyone else sickened by Thanksgiving Day sales?

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Instead of thanking G-d for this great nation, we're more concerned with 6 a.m. sales. What happened to the days when all the stores were closed, and it was about being with family?

[Dr. Dan]

Instead of thanking G-d for this great nation, we're more concerned with 6 a.m. sales. What happened to the days when all the stores were closed, and it was about being with family?

The death of empires come as a result of idol worshipping and immoral sexual activity and child sacrifice.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

The death of empires come as a result of idol worshipping and immoral sexual activity and child sacrifice.

Your exactly right Dr. Dan! What kills me is, we are so far gone, if you talk about G-d or religion, you are a nut job or a conspiracy theorist!

[IsraelForever]

The United States is not about G-d and family.  It's about money... and how much money stores can make.  Every holiday has "sales" attached to it. 

[muman613]

I'm as 'anti-commercial' as anyone here... But it is wrong to be totally anti-material. I am so happy I don't feel an urge, or a need, to go buy a bunch of presents for people... But I also see benefit from the increase in sales of our products. There is a balance between materialism and spirituality which should be sought.

I do not go out on Thanksgiving or the day after... This way I avoid the mishigas.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

The United States is not about G-d and family.  It's about money... and how much money stores can make.  Every holiday has "sales" attached to it.

It was about G-d and family, and that is what we need to bring back! That is one thing I disagree with capitalism, we should never let greed take precedence over G-d!

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I'm as 'anti-commercial' as anyone here... But it is wrong to be totally anti-material. I am so happy I don't feel an urge, or a need, to go buy a bunch of presents for people... But I also see benefit from the increase in sales of our products. There is a balance between materialism and spirituality which should be sought.

I do not go out on Thanksgiving or the day after... This way I avoid the mishigas.

I understand the need of an increase of sales, but please do not do it on a day set aside for G-d!

[muman613]

I understand the need of an increase of sales, but please do not do it on a day set aside for G-d!

Well Ephraim, that is if you take it is a day for G-d, but there is a difference of opinion concerning whether a religious Jew can engage in that aspect of the celebration. I posted about it a couple of years ago... Most Orthodox Jews do not really observe this as a religious holiday. I spoke to my Rabbi today and he is doing nothing special for the day {and either am I}...

[muman613]

Here is the relevant conclusion from a longer discussion of the various positions of the Jewish authorities on whether Thanksgiving is really 'kosher'...


http://www.tfdixie.com/special/thanksg.htm#A09

Conclusion

Three conclusions to this article are worth noting:

Three basic approaches are taken by contemporary decisors (poskim) on the question of celebrating Thanksgiving. Some rule that Thanksgiving is not a Gentile holiday, but yet limit "celebration." They would, apparently, permit eating a turkey meal. Others prohibit any form of involvement in Thanksgiving, as they rule it a Gentile holiday. Yet others view the day no different from Independence Day and allow any celebration appropriate for a secular observance.

Indeed, there remains a basic dispute that permeates this review and divide contemporary American halachic authorities of the last seventy five years. The relevant issue is whether it is appropriate to distinguish between "secular society", "Gentile society" and "idol-worshiping society" in modern American culture. The validity of this distinction -- which was not generally made by the decisors of Eastern Europe two hundred years ago for the society of that time and place -- is extremely relevant to a broad variety of halachic issues related to contemporary American society.

Like many areas of Jewish law where there is a diversity of legitimate approaches, individuals should follow the practices of their community, family or rabbi, all-the-while respecting and accepting as halachicly permissible other community's practices. It is for the ability to respect and accept as legitimate the conduct of fellow observant Jews -- sanctioned by rabbinic authority -- that true thanksgiving to the Almighty is needed.

This article has so far avoided any discussion of normative halacha. Such cannot, however, be avoided, at least in a conclusion. It is my opinion that this article clearly establishes that: (1) Thanksgiving is a secular holiday with secular origins; (2) while some people celebrate Thanksgiving with religious rituals, the vast majority of Americans do not; (3) halacha permits one to celebrate secular holidays, so long as one avoids doing so with people who celebrate them through religious worship and (4) so long as one avoids giving the celebration of Thanksgiving the appearance of a religious rite (either by occasionally missing a year or in some other manner making it clear that this is not a religious duty) the technical problems raised by Rabbi Feinstein and others are inapplicable.

Thus, halacha law permits one to have a private Thanksgiving celebration with one's Jewish or secular friends and family. For reasons related to citizenship and the gratitude we feel towards the United States government, I would even suggest that such conduct is wise and proper.

It has been recounted that some marking of Thanksgiving day was the practice of Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik, thus adding force to our custom of noting the day in some manner.

Elsewhere in this article it is recounted that Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik would reschedule shiur on Thanksgiving day, so that shiur started earlier, and ended earlier, allowing the celebration of Thanksgiving. It is important to note the Torah study was not canceled, or even curtailed. Rather, the day was rearranged to allow for a full compliment of Torah, hand in hand with the requisite "civil celebrations." That too is an important lesson in how we should mark Thanksgiving.

Torah learning must be an integral part of what we do, and how we function. Sometimes, because of the needs of the times or our duties as citizens, we undertake tasks that appear to conflict with our need to study and learn Torah. But yet we must continue to learn and study. Thus, Rabbi Soloveitchik did not cancel shiur on Thanksgiving. We, too, should not forget that leson. Torah study must go on.

[muman613]

I've gotta get this off my chest now that it has been brought up...

I spoke with my mother and step-father today. They are having a big family get-together with our 'extended family' which includes a couple of my inter-married cousins. When my Step-dad told me they are making Glazed Ham for the Thanksgiving celebration my back went up and a chill ran up it. This is the price of assimilation, that the Jewish people until my parents generation would never even think about marrying out of the Jewish religion, everyone in my generation did including my brother and myself (I am since divorced).

That my mother is going to a Thanksgiving dinner where Pork is being served I joked that they may as well make some shrimp and lobster too... But my parents are not very observant to begin with, which is probably why my generation did not hold our Judaism in high esteem. I am so upset at the assimilation that I am rebelling against Thanksgiving as a holiday which assists assimilation..

[Rubystars]

I don't hate sales but I do hate black Friday because it causes stupid people to get so worked up about products that they trample each other or fight over some stupid item like they're animals fighting over a carcass instead of human beings in a civilized society.

[cjd]

I've gotta get this off my chest now that it has been brought up...

I spoke with my mother and step-father today. They are having a big family get-together with our 'extended family' which includes a couple of my inter-married cousins. When my Step-dad told me they are making Glazed Ham for the Thanksgiving celebration my back went up and a chill ran up it. This is the price of assimilation, that the Jewish people until my parents generation would never even think about marrying out of the Jewish religion, everyone in my generation did including my brother and myself (I am since divorced).

That my mother is going to a Thanksgiving dinner where Pork is being served I joked that they may as well make some shrimp and lobster too... But my parents are not very observant to begin with, which is probably why my generation did not hold our Judaism in high esteem. I am so upset at the assimilation that I am rebelling against Thanksgiving as a holiday which assists assimilation..

I personally don't look at Thanksgiving day as a religious holiday... For me it's just a simple day of thanks...  People that are entertaining people from different religious backgrounds  should try to make the get together as comfortable as possible for all attending... I personally don't know if I would put out a ham for a group that contained both Jews and Gentiles... Although it could never be 100% I would try to serve things that can be eaten by everyone attending... Unless your parents avoid non kosher foods at home it seems pointless to avoid them when visiting someone else's home... The problem of assimilation goes deeper than just a simple American holiday.

[angryChineseKahanist]

Yes this is terrible. This day has long lost its meaning.

Hey, that's a nice shirt.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

For Jews every day is a day of giving Thanks and praises to G-D.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

The United States is not about G-d and family.  It's about money... and how much money stores can make.  Every holiday has "sales" attached to it.

 Don't forget about MLK day.

[TruthSpreader]

I don't hate sales but I do hate black Friday because it causes stupid people to get so worked up about products that they trample each other or fight over some stupid item like they're animals fighting over a carcass instead of human beings in a civilized society.

I also do not like Black Friday. That's why we have the Internet to beat the crowd.

[ChabadKahanist]

Who cares Thanksgiving isn't a Jewish holiday anyway.
I never celebrated it when I lived in America.
B"H I am in Israel & don't have deal with such BS.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I pretty much ignore thanksgiving day sales.   It's all about cyber monday.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Who cares Thanksgiving isn't a Jewish holiday anyway.
I never celebrated it when I lived in America.
B"H I am in Israel & don't have deal with such BS.

Good for you, this is my home and it has been from the beginning! So I do care!

[muman613]

For Jews every day is a day of giving Thanks and praises to G-D.

Don't you say 'Modi Ani' when you awake in the morning? Yes, we thank Hashem every day...

[Sveta]

I've gotta get this off my chest now that it has been brought up...

I spoke with my mother and step-father today. They are having a big family get-together with our 'extended family' which includes a couple of my inter-married cousins. When my Step-dad told me they are making Glazed Ham for the Thanksgiving celebration my back went up and a chill ran up it. This is the price of assimilation, that the Jewish people until my parents generation would never even think about marrying out of the Jewish religion, everyone in my generation did including my brother and myself (I am since divorced).

I am very sorry to hear about this, Muman. It is indeed VERY worrisome and I felt the same chill running up my back as I read this. Because this is not just about your family, it affects all Jews. This is troubling. And what is worse is for them to not see anything wrong with it :(
I don't know what I would have said if my family was telling me about these types of plans.


I personally do not celebrate "Thanksgiving". While Americans enjoy this day, believe in not taking part of any Gentile holiday, less we become accustomed to their ways. In the end, America is not truly my home so I am not taking part in it.
Not to mention that every day is a day of being thankful to Hashem. I don't need one day to remember since I thank Him every day. However, this is a day that annoys me less than the other American holidays. At least no one is jamming Xmas carols down my neck on Thanksgiving and I don't have to listen to "Happy Easter". I think the fact that I know that America does not make this into a religious holiday anymore makes me less weary of going out during this week. Otherwise, I tend to stay home.

[muman613]

Who cares Thanksgiving isn't a Jewish holiday anyway.
I never celebrated it when I lived in America.
B"H I am in Israel & don't have deal with such BS.

I hear you ChabadKahanist... I look forward to the day when American holidays will be just that... But we do have a reason to give thanks especially for America. This country has, for the most part, been a place of great opportunity. While it is surely a double-edged sword because of the assimilation which has occurred. Do I place the blame on America for this? I basically feel that America has a good thing with the 'melting pot' idea {which may shock some here at JTF}. To me the melting pot means that immigrants can come here and over the period of 2-3 generations their descendants will be integrated into the society. The Jews who immigrated to America in the late 1890s early 1900s played by these rules. The 1st and 2nd generations generally were able to maintain their observance of Judaism but by the third and fourth generations things became harder.

I love the idea of Thanksgiving, and it is hard to not eat traditional turkey meal. Having been brought up in this society I do feel sad that I, in some way, reject the good with the bad. I also feel this way about 'Santa Claus' and the 'Easter Bunny' because they are concepts which contain an aspect of 'innocence' and 'good will'. I do not intend to say that others should not enjoy and utilize the day to acknowledge G-d and his providence for this country. The only reason I brought up the halachic questions about the holiday is because of my feelings about how it has come to represent assimilation of Jews in America.

[AsheDina]

I dont have any American pagan days anymore.  Thats all they are to me; pagan.  Liberal slobs & filth celebrate these 'holidays'.

NO offense to other Americans, but this just is NOT America, anymore.

[Debbie Shafer]

I agree, this country has become obsessed with stuff and self.   We do not go out for Black Friday which is a mad house, you get shoved, you wait in long lines, and you feel worse when you go home than when you got there...This is about the Birth of the Savior.  Quiet times with family, sharing food,  music, soft Christmas lights, and kinship are number one on our list.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I dont have any American pagan days anymore.  Thats all they are to me; pagan.  Liberal slobs & filth celebrate these 'holidays'.

NO offense to other Americans, but this just is NOT America, anymore.

Thanksgiving is not a pagan holiday, the people that founded it did not follow any pagan holidays! It was a day to thank G-d for allowing them to make it to a secure land, free of oppression of religion!

That is true, but we still have to fight!