Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
On clothing, "peyos" and language.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: IsraeliHeart on February 28, 2013, 12:55:25 AM ---So once a man grows out peyos, he should not cut them at all? I see men who look trimmed. Both trimmed beard and short peyos. And I am not talking about when they're curled making them look short. They should never be trimmed at all?
--- End quote ---
lol what? Where did this come from? Howcome no one is reading the reply to the question which was posted to start this thread?
muman613:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on March 01, 2013, 12:37:21 AM ---lol what? Where did this come from? Howcome no one is reading the reply to the question which was posted to start this thread?
--- End quote ---
I read it and it is saying that growing peyot is a custom copied from idolators. That is ridiculous. He provides nothing but his own opinion. Why does it say it was written by 'jeans man'?
--- Quote ---Author: jeans man
E-mail: not available
Date: 12/29/2003 10:39:00 AM
Subject: clothing
--- End quote ---
What is the original source of that? What sources does he provide for his statements other than his own opinion? I have, on the other hand, provided numerous sources and images which show that growin peyot is a uniquely Jewish custom.
Both of you claim so often that Yemenite Jewish culture is the most 'authentic' and they keep to Rambams Mishneh Torah. Yet this article claims that the Temeni Jews copied the custom of growing long peyot from idolators in Yemen. To me that is another ridiculous claim. The Yemenite Jews are credited, even by you, to have kept the authentic pronunciation of Ivri and yet you are supporting the claim that they somehow adopted Idolatrous practices? Even though this guy 'jeans man' claims that from Rambam it is a violation to immitate the hair styles of idolators? It is getting more ridiculous.
Anyway, I am sure you have some comments to make. So go ahead...
muman613:
Find me a picture of a culture other than Jewish which grow long peyos?
Here is a blog where someone with as much authority as 'jeans man' discusses peyos:
http://www.torahtalk.net/index2.htm?576330
--- Quote ---One of the things about Chassidim (and others) that confound the uninitiated is the concept of Payos, literally "corners." Some let these "side curls" hang "freestyle" down the sides of their heads, resting on their shoulders and below. Others wrap them several times around their ears, and others tuck them under their hats. The more "moderate" style of sporting Payos, also popular among many non-Chassidim, is to keep them relatively short, guiding them over and behind the ear.
What are Payos? Why do some people have them, while others don’t? Why are there so many ways to wear them? Which way is right? What is their significance?
Actually, EVERYBODY is supposed to wear Payos! So where, you may ask if you’ve seen my picture, are MY Payos? It really depends upon how you define them!
Do not round the Payos -- corners, of your heads, and do not destroy the Payos -- corners of your beard. (Leviticus, 19:29)
The prohibition of "rounding" is to cut one’s hair in such a way that there is one continuous circle of hair from the forehead to the temple to behind the ear, and all the way around. (Envision a monk’s haircut.) The prohibition of "destroying" the beard refers to using a razor blade to shave one’s beard. (As opposed to the use of depilatories and certain types of electric shavers, which use a different technique than a straight edge. -- The rules pertaining to the nuances of beard shaving are beyond the scope of this week’s message.)
Among the various explanations given for the Torah’s rules of hair cutting is that these were done by other religions, and we are required to distance ourselves from these practices. (Sefer Hachinuch) Ibn Ezra explains that it is appropriate for there to be a distinctly "Jewish appearance."
The bottom line, when it comes to Payos, is to allow a minimal amount of hair growth to remain at the side of the head. Almost everyone today, Jew and Gentile, fulfils this as a matter of course. (Although some of the "mushroom" haircuts would seem to violate this Commandment.)
What many groups, most notably Yemenite and Chassidic Jews, have done, is to emphasize this Mitzvah. Not only do they not cut the hair short, they allow it to grow long! In my neighborhood, I will often see Chassidim riding by on bikes or motorcycles, with their Payos flying behind them in the wind!
Some Jews, like the apocryphal fellow sited above, are uncomfortable seeing fellow Jews who dress in a manner that is so conspicuous and different. My feeling, although I don’t personally dress that way, is, what could be more Jewish! The Talmud says that one of the reasons that the ancient Israelites merited to be taken out of Egypt is that they maintained a uniquely Jewish mode of dress.
--- End quote ---
Actually, there is one culture which I think Jeans Man was referring to who grew a long 'tzit-tzit' braid.... It is the ancient Chinese.... But that Chinese Braid does not look the least like the side-curls which Jews wear.
You know how I know, for Purim my Rabbi dressed up for the 'Chinese Theme' as one of these Chinese wise men...
I got a picture of it...
Anyway, I may remove the picture because I don't know if my Rabbi would want me to post it.
muman613:
Although Wiki is not the primary source for Jewish reference, the entry for Peyot seems completely true according to my understanding...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payot
Payot (also pe'ot, peyot, payos, peyos; Hebrew: singular ,פֵּאָה ;plural ,פֵּאוֹת) is the Hebrew word for sidelocks or sidecurls. Payot are worn by some men and boys in the Orthodox Jewish community based on an interpretation of the Biblical injunction against shaving the "corners" of one's head. Literally, pe'ah means corner, side or edge. There are different styles of payot among Haredi, Yemenite, and Hasidic Jews. Yemenite Jews call their sidelocks simonim Hebrew: סִימָנִים, literally signs, because their long curled sidelocks served as a distinguishing feature in Yemenite society (distinguishing them from their non-Jewish neighbors).
Rabbinical interpretation
The Torah says, "You shall not round off the פְּאַת Pe'at of your head" (Leviticus 19:27). The word Pe'at was taken to mean the hair in front of the ears extending to beneath the cheekbone, on a level with the nose (Talmud - Makkot 20a).[1] The Mishnah interpreted the regulation as applying only to men. Thus it became the custom in certain circles to allow the hair over the ears to grow, and hang down in curls or ringlets.[2] According to Maimonides, shaving the sidelocks was a heathen practice.[3] There is considerable discussion in the halachic literature as to the precise location of the payot and of the ways in which their removal is prohibited.[4]
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
Can someone explain to me how this happens?
--- Quote from: Tag --- (quoting a website with a question from a reader, answered by one of the site's rabbis)
"This type of dress could have easily been adopted by the neighboring Yemenite non-Jews, and eventually by the Yemenite Jews. The fact that many Chassidim curl their Payos to look like Yemenite type Payos, leads me to believe that their custom came from the Yemenites. Yemenites don't need to curl theirs, it is naturally curly."
--- End quote ---
Bold added for emphasis.
--- Quote from: muman --- (showing picture of a Yemenite Jew)
Apparently there are Yemenite Jews who grow Peyos too.
--- End quote ---
I just don't understand it. Is this a sophisticated method of trolling that is just beyond my comprehension? Maybe you are sitting there laughing at me and at Tag when we reply to you. Something just doesn't add up. That was the motivation behind my question to you. Nothing more.
But of course now you have said more and prompted me to respond further. And respond I will...
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