Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
On clothing, "peyos" and language.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on March 01, 2013, 01:06:12 AM ---I read it and it is saying that growing peyot is a custom copied from idolators. That is ridiculous. He provides nothing but his own opinion. Why does it say it was written by 'jeans man'?
What is the original source of that? What sources does he provide for his statements other than his own opinion?
--- End quote ---
Ok, first let's get the stupid stuff out of the way. "Jeans man" was the person who submitted the question to the rabbi. Obviously he didn't want his name on the site so he used "jeans man" instead. The Rabbi responds to the question (His comment begins under the subheading called "REPLY" which is written in red font). He signs his reply AA which stands for A. Abadi (either Aaron or Abraham). He is a son of the esteemed Rav Yitzhak Abadi and is a rabbi in his own right.
--- Quote --- I have, on the other hand, provided numerous sources and images which show that growin peyot is a uniquely Jewish custom.
--- End quote ---
It needs to be stressed here that you have done no such thing.
Posting some pictures of Jews wearing this hairstyle doesn't prove anything about its origin. Absolute zero. Sorry. It doesn't prove or even suggest that it's "uniquely Jewish" and it doesn't say anything about its origin.
--- Quote ---Both of you claim so often that Yemenite Jewish culture is the most 'authentic' and they keep to Rambams Mishneh Torah.
--- End quote ---
More lies and more fraud. Why do you continue to put words in my mouth? Very, very insecure on your part.
Clearly these smears and lies come from a place of deep-seated insecurity and lack of self-confidence. There is something that deeply troubles you about my fondness for Yemenite Jews and my assertion that they maintained a living tradition, and are the ONLY Jews in the entire world, who maintained a living tradition of correct pronunciation of certain Hebrew letters (not to mention the ability to identify the kosher and non-kosher locusts). What is it that so bothers you? Is it perhaps that Chabad, which claims of course to have the keys to the engine of all of Judaism, is lacking in something and that makes you uncomfortable as a follower of Chabad? Maybe it gives lie to certain things you have been told? I really don't know but don't care to speculate beyond that. I just would like if you stopped putting words in my mouth.
--- Quote --- Yet this article claims that the Temeni Jews copied the custom of growing long peyot from idolators in Yemen. To me that is another ridiculous claim.
--- End quote ---
This article says a lot of interesting things, some of which is speculation on the part of the author, but the true origin of the Yemenite peyoth is not mentioned - and the truth is much simpler. The Gentile King of Yemen, forced the Jews to adopt this hairstyle as a way to distinguish them in appearance from the Yemenite non-Jews. A sort of medieval era, middle eastern, gold star of David, if you will. This is documented fact and in historical records. Over the course of a long history, the Yemenite Jews kept this hairstyle and still wear it to this day, 100's of years later. Of course, it is also documented facts that the Chassidic movement was a relatively recent innovation, and their use of the peyoth hairstyle was also a recent innovation added to Jewish culture. On that point, the author is correct. His speculation that they might have "copied" it from the Yemenites, could be correct or could not, but I would have to see some proof or circumstantial evidence to consider that possibility a likely one. It could be an independent development which they themselves innovated to beautify a certain mitzvah we are all familiar with by now. Or maybe he's right. I would say that's worth looking into. Would you agree? Or are you scared of what might be found?
muman613:
No, the article says that Peyot should not be grown. He says it is an idolatrous practice. Once I read that I know where he is coming from.
If he is a Rabbi you respect, so be it.
I think his conclusions are in error, and again the majority opinion is that Peyot is a mitzvah of the Torah and that it was a custom which has endured as a 'siman' or sign of the Jewish people, not as a sign of idolatrous people, as the article concluded.
Most Rabbis when giving an opinion will provide sources for his conclusions, maybe you can ask him to provide some references other than broad speculation.
muman613:
KWRBT,
It is you who is the insecure one, who always supports postings which are anti Ashkenazi for whatever deep-seated purpose. I have never said a word against any Sephardi or Yemenite and listen to Rabbis of all backgrounds. You on the other hand always seem to enjoy creating divisions between Jews.
So the Ashkenaz Jews are not 'authentic' enough for you. So you think they copied the Yemenite customs? What evidence you have? None at all. The fact that the Kabbalistic sources discuss the importance of growing Peyot, in the books of Zohar and other sources, provide a good reason that Chassidic Judaism adopted the practice of growing the peyot, again as a distinctive Jewish style.
You are entitled to believe what you want. I don't think there is anything to this article which merits worrying about, it is simply an opinion piece biased by anti-ashkenazi feelings of a Sephardi rabbi.
You go ask this rabbi to provide sources like he claims he can... Then maybe we can discuss specifics.
muman613:
--- Quote ---Posting some pictures of Jews wearing this hairstyle doesn't prove anything about its origin. Absolute zero. Sorry. It doesn't prove or even suggest that it's "uniquely Jewish" and it doesn't say anything about its origin.
--- End quote ---
You can show me some pictures of non-Jews wearing peyot as a custom? Ok, please provide them..
muman613:
If the Torah commanded that a Jew wear a particular uniform it would have been explained in the Oral Law... Where is this uniform which you guys think is the 'original' Jewish dress? Our dress indeed has been influenced by the land we live in. And as long as we dress is a unique manner, we are not going in the ways of the gentiles.
Maybe this rabbi thinks we all should wear the dress of the Kohen Gadol, as he implies that we all should cut our hair like the Kohen gadol's hair was cut...
Here is a discussion of this topic on another forum:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/the-peyos-of-yemenite-jewry
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