Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
On clothing, "peyos" and language.
muman613:
No the 43rd prohibition is 'rounding the corners of the head', specifically shaving the peyot areas... Maybe you should get a copy of 'Sefer Hamitzvot' and study it...
There is a separate prohibition on shaving the beard..
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/940320/jewish/Negative-Commandment-44.htm
The 44th prohibition is that we are forbidden from shaving the beard, which has five sections: the upper right jaw, the upper left jaw, the lower right jaw, the lower left jaw, and the chin.
This prohibition is contained in the following expression,1 "Do not destroy the corner of your beard," because all [the parts] are included in the term, "beard." Scripture does not write, "Do not destroy your beard," but, "Do not destroy the corner of your beard," meaning that one may not destroy even one corner from the entire beard.
The Oral Tradition explains that there are five corners, as we have categorized, and that one is punished by five sets of lashes if he shaves them all, even if he shaved them all at once. In the words of the Mishneh,2 "For [shaving] the beard [one receives] five [sets of lashes]: two for one side, two for the other side, and one for the bottom. Rabbi Eliezer says, 'If they were all shaved at once, one receives only one [set of lashes].'" The Talmud3 says, "We see that Rabbi Eliezer holds that it is all one prohibition." This is a clear proof that the first opinion holds that they constitute five separate prohibitions, and that is the law.
This [shaving of the beard] was also4 the practice of the idolatrous priests, as is well known today that among the adornments of the European ascetics5 is that they shave their beards.
It does not count as five separate commandments, since the prohibition is expressed in the singular ["beard"] and there is only one type of action, as we explained in the previous commandment.
The details of this mitzvah have been explained in the end of Makkos. This prohibition is also not binding upon women.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on March 03, 2013, 02:08:08 PM ---KWRBT,
I do not claim to know exactly what length the peyot should be grown. It is a matter of custom. But the Torah clearly and unambiguously commands us not to shave the corners of the head... Do you agree with that at least?
--- End quote ---
Why do you ask me something I have already said? I quote myself for you now:
--- Quote from: me --- False. Not one chacham believes this. Not one. The halachic requirement, which can be found in the writings of poskim, not by looking at people walking around on the street or looking at pictures, is that it not be shaved off (bald). Leaving a tiny amount of hair suffices to fulfill this mitzvah. Your statement is an obfuscation.
--- End quote ---
So now you are saying "you don't claim to know" which length. Well, we are getting closer to a truthful conversation. Inching ever so slowly. It's ok that you do not know. Because the poskim do know. They set those parameters and it is very small amounts of hair. Growing out long flowing peyoth is an innovation and not a requirement. But let's be sure we are solid in the 613 mitzvoth and worry less about these extraneous matters. Let's keep Shabbat, tefillin, Kashrut. Teshuva is a long process. I'm still working on it, myself. I welcome you to join me in this process, although we cannot meet personally - Let's commit ourselves to doing mitzvot, very important mitzvot from the Torah, and let's focus on the internal not the external because it is the internal middoth which are the benchmark of our value as human beings and our obedience to the Torah, not outward appearances and black hats.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on March 03, 2013, 02:13:18 PM ---No the 43rd prohibition is 'rounding the corners of the head', specifically shaving the peyot areas... Maybe you should get a copy of 'Sefer Hamitzvot' and study it...
--- End quote ---
LOL, what? You just cited the 43rd prohibition, and you used chabad's translation in your previous post, WHICH I QUOTED in my response to, which they described as SHAVING.
Here, I will quote you now:
--- Quote from: muman --- Maybe you don't consider Rambams Sefer HaMitzvot a reliable source?
From Rambams Sefer Hamitzvot: 43rd Prohibition
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/940319/jewish/Negative-Commandment-43.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/940319/jewish/Negative-Commandment-43.htm
The 43rd prohibition is that we are forbidden from shaving1 the temples of our heads.
--- End quote ---
Your words. Chabad's words.
I simply responded to what you wrote.
I know that marring the beard and rounding the corners are different prohibitions. I only responded to what you wrote. Can't you see that?
I also know that rounding the corners is described by the halachic authorities (Jewish rabbis) that leaving a very small amount of hair suffices to avoid transgressing this prohibition.
muman613:
So we agree that there is a commandment to not shave the peyot (the corners of the head)?
The length is the question.... And that is a matter of custom...
I can agree with that, and that is all I have been arguing about. It seemed to me you were arguing that it is not a prohibition to shave these hairs.
There are various opinions on what the length of these hairs should be. And as I posted in my first few responses Chabad doesn't advocate growing them long. Breslev on the other hand does. And I have no problem with this...
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on March 03, 2013, 02:23:50 PM ---So we agree that there is a commandment to not shave the peyot (the corners of the head)?
The length is the question.... And that is a matter of custom...
I can agree with that, and that is all I have been arguing about. It seemed to me you were arguing that it is not a prohibition to shave these hairs.
--- End quote ---
You know that's not true. This is not funny, muman. I am not amused. Quit your trolling.
It is very easy to get the wrong impression from what I say when you ASSUME things I never actually said. Maybe you should learn from this experience and in the future, don't assume things that I didn't actually say.
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