Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?

[muman613]

Yes, but don't fool yourself into believing these are Jewish prophecies or Jewish ideas...

We don't believe in a devil, and satan in Judaism is much, much different from other faiths..

[syyuge]

By now everyone wise knows it to more or less extent.

[serbian army]

Why Jews never accepted Jesus to be the one they waited for? I saw youtube video of rabbi in Serbia where he speaks from perspective of Jewish faith about Mesiah. To me it seems a very materialistic: military power, wealth.....

[muman613]

Why Jews never accepted Jesus to be the one they waited for? I saw youtube video of rabbi in Serbia where he speaks from perspective of Jewish faith about Mesiah. To me it seems a very materialistic: military power, wealth.....

There are a myriad of reasons, but this is not the place to discuss this, it will cause a lot of problems...

PS: He is obviously NOT the one we are waiting for..

And it is true, Moshiach will be a military leader, who will fight a war against the enemies of the G-d of Israel, bringing about the ingathering of the Jewish exiles, and start (or complete) the building of the Third Temple.

http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html
http://ohr.edu/ask/ask00j.htm
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/247,2168834/Why-do-Jews-not-accept-Jesus-as-a-god-or-a-messiah.html

[Rubystars]

Why Jews never accepted Jesus to be the one they waited for? I saw youtube video of rabbi in Serbia where he speaks from perspective of Jewish faith about Mesiah. To me it seems a very materialistic: military power, wealth.....

I'd like to talk about this topic elsewhere but not on JTF because it will highly offend people to bring it up and may come off as passive-aggressive missionizing, no matter what the thread title says. So I have to agree with Muman that we shouldn't address this topic here at all.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Let's put it all out on the table ...

In my option... Jesus and many others had a spark of the messiah, but the time was not right. I believe that when the Messiah comes he will have been all of them. That brings to mind, why do Christians not believe in a spark or light of G-d being with in us? G-d is in everything!  On the thought of Satan, he is a test. If you follow him you will be in powered, but you will have failed the test.

[Rubystars]

Let's put it all out on the table ...

In my option... Jesus and many others had a spark of the messiah, but the time was not right. I believe that when the Messiah comes he will have been all of them. That brings to mind, why do Christians not believe in a spark or light of G-d being with in us? G-d is in everything!  On the thought of Satan, he is a test. If you follow him you will be in powered, but you will have failed the test.

Christians believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit for those who are saved.

[briann]

I think Rand Paul is the most likely AC candidate after listening to Chaim, but check this out:

http://7-thirteen.tumblr.com/post/4275405522/why-lady-gaga-is-the-anti-christ

It is rather tongue-in-cheek, but worth a scan nonetheless.

Based upon what others here have defined as the Antichrist.... Rand obviously wouldnt qualify... since he has very little following... and has no charisma whatsoever....  again... if you listed to him speak... you will know what I am talking about.

Compare this with Obama... who half the world loves.... and who is a strong orator... and obviously has a hidden evil agenda. 

To me there is no comparison... assuming I understand this concept of an antichrist.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Christians believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit for those who are saved.

What about the Holy Aborigine that has not been saved or has not heard of the Messiah? Can he not feel the Holy Spirit?

[muman613]

What about the Holy Aborigine that has not been saved or has not heard of the Messiah? Can he not feel the Holy Spirit?

Hmm...

[Sveta]

We don't believe in a devil, and satan in Judaism is much, much different from other faiths..

That is very interesting. Because while driving today, I was listening to a lecture by Rabbi Tovia Singer and he was going over the differences of "satan" in Judaism and in Christianity. It was a great lecture. For anyone interested:

http://www.torahanytime.com/rabbi_singer_judaism_and_christianity_on_satan_mp3.html

[muman613]

That is very interesting. Because while driving today, I was listening to a lecture by Rabbi Tovia Singer and he was going over the differences of "satan" in Judaism and in Christianity. It was a great lecture. For anyone interested:

http://www.torahanytime.com/rabbi_singer_judaism_and_christianity_on_satan_mp3.html

I love Rabbi Singer and his anti-missionary talks... I miss his show on Arutz Sheva... (he used to do a show with Tamar Yonah)..

[Sveta]

I'm probably going to get asked to not post this, but one thing I never understood.

Judaism= Moshiach will not divine but a man who will fit certain qualifications and complete certain items that will change all the world for ever. Moshiach is not a suddenly heavenly revelation, but G-d's work to perfect the world. And we have to merit his coming.
Christianity- Jesus is the messiah who is also G-d and a Holy spirit, same person but different at the same time. And though him everyone is saved. Birth was a sudden revelation (ie a star over Bethlehem). What was done to merit him at that time? I mean historically speaking, what action caused his birth?

Ok so based on this:

1)Before Jesus was born, a native in the Americans, a Chinese person, an Arab or a Roman whatever-- steals from another...they are guilty of stealing and will suffer punishment from G-d.
2)Jesus was born, died and was risen
3) A native, Chinese, Arab or Roman steals from another...they are guilty of stealing and will suffer punishment.
4) ? What's the difference or what changed?

But that's just me, I'll probably delete this. If we ever start a topic that answers questions like this, I will re-post.

Or people can send me a Private Message to explain. (private message is better, so that we won't deviate from the topic here).

[Sveta]

I love Rabbi Singer and his anti-missionary talks... I miss his show on Arutz Sheva... (he used to do a show with Tamar Yonah)..

He is VERY funny, he explains everything with such clarity!! I love Rabbi Singer too!!

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Based upon what others here have defined as the Antichrist.... Rand obviously wouldnt qualify... since he has very little following... and has no charisma whatsoever....  again... if you listed to him speak... you will know what I am talking about.

Compare this with Obama... who half the world loves.... and who is a strong orator... and obviously has a hidden evil agenda. 

To me there is no comparison... assuming I understand this concept of an antichrist.

The same could have been said of Rand's idol, Adolf Sh*tler, before he came to power. He had zero social or speaking skills whatsoever as a young man--what did have was relentless determination and zeal to improve them as much as it took.

[nessuno]

I'm probably going to get asked to not post this, but one thing I never understood.

Judaism= Moshiach will not divine but a man who will fit certain qualifications and complete certain items that will change all the world for ever. Moshiach is not a suddenly heavenly revelation, but G-d's work to perfect the world. And we have to merit his coming. Z
Christianity- Jesus is the messiah who is also G-d and a Holy spirit, same person but different at the same time. And though him everyone is saved. Birth was a sudden revelation (ie a star over Bethlehem). What was done to merit him at that time? I mean historically speaking, what action caused his birth?

Ok so based on this:

1)Before Jesus was born, a native in the Americans, a Chinese person, an Arab or a Roman whatever-- steals from another...they are guilty of stealing and will suffer punishment from G-d.
2)Jesus was born, died and was risen
3) A native, Chinese, Arab or Roman steals from another...they are guilty of stealing and will suffer punishment.
4) ? What's the difference or what changed?

But that's just me, I'll probably delete this. If we ever start a topic that answers questions like this, I will re-post.

Or people can send me a Private Message to explain. (private message is better, so that we won't deviate from the topic here).

Why would any Christian think it appropriate to answer on the open forum?  We should not be here to defend/discuss/debate the finer points of Christianity. This is a save Israel and America forum.  I do hope you would have this discussion via pm.  The whole thread is a bit unsettling. 

[Draughts]

Exactly. Why would a Christian come on a Jewish Task Force forum to try to convince anything about Christianity? There are different places where it can be discussed at. If I say through Jesus's sacrifice, everyone has been cleansed and their sins are forgiven, If I say Christ in Christianity is referred to as the Son of God, sent by him to purge the sins of the whole world and through him God gave us his wisdom and offered us a chance to save our mortal soul, if I say Jesus is also called the messiah, a God in a Human form and His teachings had reached many ears and through his teachings many had been reconciled with God, if I say Jesus Christ lived as any ordinary man would have lived. He was born from a human woman (Mary) and received the emotions of humans. These human emotions may have greatly influenced his effort to save others and help them become closer to God.............the answer would be

 "I don't believe in Jesus Christ".

Of course we know you don't believe in Jesus. So why do some JTFers (muman at first) constantly ask from Christian JTFers to prove anything about Christianity if our believes are different and everything I say from a Christian perspective would be false to those who don't believe in Jesus? Makes no sense to prove anything, this is not the place for that. Or you want from Christians to post links here about Christianity and again for the hundredth time bring dispute and division so the outcome would be locking this thread just like the Christmas tree and Pope thread, the same pattern will happen again.

 

[briann]

The same could have been said of Rand's idol, Adolf Sh*tler, before he came to power. He had zero social or speaking skills whatsoever as a young man--what did have was relentless determination and zeal to improve them as much as it took.

That's not true... Adolf (like Obama)...  only able became popular BECAUSE of his speaking abilities.    back in the 1920's the only reason NSDAP became a draw was because everyone wanted to go see Adolf speak... he was a freak show...  like an evil loud Tony Robbins..  The exact same was true for Obama... There was absolutely nothing notable about Obama... but he could orate very well... which made him a big draw.... take a look at his DNC party speech in 2004...  many who saw that knew he was going to be a threat after they saw him speak there.

Rand, on the other hand is horrific at speaking... no matter how much coaching he gets.... he just plain sucks...  he is so bad... he makes his father seem like a good speaker....   

To me....  Obama fits the Antichrist description to a 'T'....   Everyone loves him world-wide... including the self-hating jews...   

Beleive me... I hate the fake conservatives as much as you do... and I hate the Paul's just as much as you do.... but Obama is the real threat here...     

[briann]

Why would any Christian think it appropriate to answer on the open forum?  We should not be here to defend/discuss/debate the finer points of Christianity. This is a save Israel and America forum.  I do hope you would have this discussion via pm.  The whole thread is a bit unsettling.

I kind of agree here.... I don't mind one bit when there are theological differences within the forum... but this thread is a bit inappropriate for a Jewish forum...   not so much for me... but for the more religious Jews here.  But maybe there should be a forum here for the Christians for theological discussions.

[Draughts]

I kind of agree here.... I don't mind one bit when there are theological differences within the forum... but this thread is a bit inappropriate for a Jewish forum...   not so much for me... but for the more religious Jews here.  But maybe there should be a forum here for the Christians for theological discussions.

I don't think this thread itself is inappropriate, for this forum it is unappropriate when there is unnecessary dispute and discord between Jews and Christians who support Israel....people outside of the forum who have read the threads like the Pope thread and Christams tree thread were able to see posts that "Christianity is a false religion", "Christians are off the track but will be right on the track if they renounce Jesus", and then many anti Christian links were posted..........Is that how Jews and Gentiles should cooperate? Not a good example. The outcome of that is only harmful to the forum. Then someone decides to mock JTF based on those anti-Christian posts which have inspired them:



It is very unfair to ask a Christian JTFer to prove their points about Christianity on a Jewish Task Force forum because this is not a place for that. Period.

[syyuge]

Please make no more confrontations and fights on this thread.

Please stop at this thread here and do not post anything further.

In this manner please preserve this thread as it contains all the information that has been collected as much as worldly possible regarding AntiChrist, 666, False Prophet, Red Dragon & Co.

This is to be irrespective of whether one believes in the existence of AntiChrist & Co. or not. 

[Draughts]

syyuge, I will not just stop posting on this thread, but on this forum. It is known who was making confrontations on Pope thread and Christmas three thread and I am sick of it at least because it continues here since some people want to present Christianity as a false religion, alright, they can present that idea to other Christian JTFers, not to me. I thought things could change so I stayed, but no, it is all the same, over and over again. 

[Dr. Dan]

You know compared to other threads between Jews and Christians, my observation is that people have been much more respectful this time around.  If there is anything that was ever said on this thread that was the most offensive, it was my comments. 

Listen, my suggestion is if there is going to be any theological respectful meaning dialogue about our religions, then in the open is fine as long as there is no intention of offending the other side and in the end to agree to disagree.

It's another thing if turns into a debate. I'm not against debates.  But in this particular instance where individuals might get hot headed and we are a forum where Jews and Christians are united, best to keep it in private messaging..but also recommend to talk to each other with mutual respect...(sort of how I did it when I first posted on this thread).

[muman613]

You know compared to other threads between Jews and Christians, my observation is that people have been much more respectful this time around.  If there is anything that was ever said on this thread that was the most offensive, it was my comments. 

Listen, my suggestion is if there is going to be any theological respectful meaning dialogue about our religions, then in the open is fine as long as there is no intention of offending the other side and in the end to agree to disagree.

It's another thing if turns into a debate. I'm not against debates.  But in this particular instance where individuals might get hot headed and we are a forum where Jews and Christians are united, best to keep it in private messaging..but also recommend to talk to each other with mutual respect...(sort of how I did it when I first posted on this thread).

I did not post in this thread for almost 3 days. I knew anything I said would be blown out of proportion. I saw your comments Dan and I was surprised a couple JTF members didn't jump down your throat for stating what you stated... On that point I agreed with you but refrained from posting for another day...

I agree that things in this thread have been mild compared to other threads.

One thing that non-Jews should understand about Jews is that we have been on the receiving end of a lot of grief from the various churches and Christian sects for thousands of years. Most of us don't know the 'good' church from the 'bad' church. Many Jews think that Christian Zionists are really only involved because they want to bring about armageddon (and all that involves)... But I do believe that there are many Christians who truly would like to see the Jewish scriptures fulfilled, and these Christian Zionists should be encouraged.

I believe it is possible so long as the Christians realize that Jews don't need Jesus, and we have a personal relationship with the Almighty himself. We do not need an intermediary, as Moses and the Prophets have told us. If Christianity works for them, wonderful... But Jews should not be shopping for another G-d as Hashem is a jealous G-d, and as his Torah promises the Jewish people will be lowered if we are lured to worship others. This is no comment on the beliefs of non-Jews, this is a comment on the need to keep the current Jews Jewish...

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

syyuge, I will not just stop posting on this thread, but on this forum. It is known who was making confrontations on Pope thread and Christmas three thread and I am sick of it at least because it continues here since some people want to present Christianity as a false religion, alright, they can present that idea to other Christian JTFers, not to me. I thought things could change so I stayed, but no, it is all the same, over and over again.

Are you talking about me? I really wanted an answer, and I find Christian end time theories interesting.