Poll

Which of these do you think is the best Antichrist candidate at the moment?

George Soros
3 (16.7%)
Hu Jintao
0 (0%)
BHO
6 (33.3%)
Gabrielle Giffords
0 (0%)
Dyke Doomberg
0 (0%)
Muzz Muzzie
2 (11.1%)
"Lady" Gaga
0 (0%)
Rand Paul
4 (22.2%)
Other (please list and explain your reasoning)
3 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 18

Author Topic: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?  (Read 22117 times)

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Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #125 on: March 12, 2013, 10:32:44 PM »
All you and multiple members do is try to start fights ....
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #126 on: March 12, 2013, 11:08:45 PM »
Christians are not dualists. We teach that G-d allows the devil to have power here on earth in order to test us.

Offline Sveta

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #127 on: March 12, 2013, 11:15:06 PM »
I don't think I was challenging anyone to prove their beliefs. I was stating how in to me, nothing has changed in the world in the past thousand years and invited anyone interested in the theory to send me a private message about this.

Thanks to the one who send me the message :-), for your willingness to explain. I just have always had an inquisitive mind.

Offline cjd

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #128 on: March 13, 2013, 06:01:13 AM »
I also agree with Brain, there should be a Christian section.
I really don't see the need for a Christian section in fact I see it as a thing that would only cause further division... In most cases Gentile members here on the forum do not start threads like this but respond to issues presented about their own religions in order to correct or defend what they see as a misrepresentation... Having a platform here on the forum in order to start threads concerning Christianity or any other religion would be a tool for endless proselytizing and problems by people coming to our forum to undermine it.
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Offline Draughts

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #129 on: March 13, 2013, 09:09:10 AM »

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #130 on: March 13, 2013, 09:15:08 AM »
Christians are not dualists. We teach that G-d allows the devil to have power here on earth in order to test us.

Agreed

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #131 on: March 13, 2013, 09:16:24 AM »
I really don't see the need for a Christian section in fact I see it as a thing that would only cause further division... In most cases Gentile members here on the forum do not start threads like this but respond to issues presented about their own religions in order to correct or defend what they see as a misrepresentation... Having a platform here on the forum in order to start threads concerning Christianity or any other religion would be a tool for endless proselytizing and problems by people coming to our forum to undermine it.

It would probably cause a lot more problems than it would solve and get otherwise good people in trouble saying things they'd be sorry they posted after the fact so I agree that we don't need that section here.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #132 on: March 13, 2013, 09:17:50 AM »
I don't think Obama's smart enough to be the anti-Christ. He is very evil though.

Offline Draughts

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #133 on: March 13, 2013, 09:18:24 AM »
The religion of the early Israelite tribes was no monotheistic. Before the ninth century B.C.E. the patriarchs and the kings of Israel did not worship a universal Creator god, but rather, a tribal god who was nevertheless conceived as unique in power and moral authority. Henotheism perhaps best describes the religion of Israel in both the Patriarchal and Mosaic periods. Henotheism refers to those religions that, while recognizing the reality of many gods, worship and believe in the asendancy of only one god. The early Israelites lived in a polytheistic environment, but from the time of Moses they considered their God Hashem as unique in power and authority....The answer Moses received is a most significiant event in the history of religions. God said to Moses, "I am who I am." And he said, " say I am (Hashem has sent me to you" (Exodus 3:4-14).

An interesting story is written about Pharaoh Amenhotep IV who ruled about 1375 B.C.E. Can't write it as my fingers are starting to hurt.

Off topic therefore :spam:


Offline Draughts

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #134 on: March 13, 2013, 09:51:14 AM »
Christians: Do you believe in 1. Demons, 2. Demonic possession, 3. a devil that controls the world, and if so, who does he use to control the world? 4. If the devil is in hell or in the world or both, 5. That he is going to posses someone and take over the world

I don't know all Christian denominations views, but here is the source from Christian Orthodox perspective about demons, evil, Satan... it is too long to read, sorry:

 
The Doctrine of Evil

To understand the Orthodox view and practice of exorcism, one must know the Orthodox presuppositions of evil and its doctrine of Satan. The patristic evidence points to the fact that the cause of evil in the world is the devil. The devil was created by God as an angel, who was free, and as a free agent chose to oppose the plan of God. That is, the devil is a fallen angel. Satan is not evil by nature, but by will and action. In Satan there is no truth whatsoever; he is absolute falsehood and deception. Satan is not just a negation or deprivation of good, but a positive force with free will that always chooses evil. The devil has the ability to recognize divine power, as in the incident of recognizing Christ as the Son of God (Matt. 4:1-11; Luke 4:1-3). Satan has under his leadership legions and invisible powers, with their own "satanic teachings." The devil and evil spirits know that God exists and recognize true and devoted Christians, but pious Christians discern the plans of the devil. The devil, however, constantly employs every method of deception to enslave man to satanic forces and causes rebellion against God. He is the cause of corruption and disorder, a parasitic power in the world that will ultimately be destroyed by the power of God in the "last days." Because there is no compromise between God and the devil, the struggle will continue until the end.

The Orthodox doctrine of God is that He is eternal, uncreated and incorporeal. All other creatures, both visible and invisible, were created by God as free. The power of the devil will ultimately be destroyed by the resurrection of the dead and the renewal of creation. Salvation from all evil will be attained by obedience to God and His plan. This world is a battleground between the acceptance of good and evil. It must be pointed out that the world as the creation of God is not evil. What is evil is the satanic power, destroyed by the power of the cross and the resurrection of Christ.

The Orthodox Tradition of Exorcising

After examining the doctrine of Satan in the Orthodox Church, it is imperative to proceed to the method of repelling and exorcising the evil powers. In the New Testament, Christ sent out His apostles to heal and to "cast out devils" (Matt. 10:8, Luke 10:17-20). Christ Himself often expels demons from the possessed (Mark 1:23-27; Luke 4:33-35, 9:43; Matt. 10:1; Mark 16:17; Matt. 7:22). The New Testament, however, rejected popular uses of magic incantations and rites to expel the satanic powers from people, because they took advantage of superstitious religiosity (Acts 19:13).
In the name of Christ, one is able to cast out demons and to destroy the evil powers. The Fathers of the Church accepted this doctrine and expanded on it. Justin Martyr (Apology 85, 2) says that in the name of Christ, the Son of God who was crucified and rose again, every demon that is exorcised is defeated and submits (Library of the Greek Fathers and Church Writers, Athens: Apostolike Diakonia 1955, Vol. 3, pp. 288-89). The satanic powers are destroyed through the power of the cross and the name of Christ. Objects possessed by demons, when exorcised in the name of the living God, are freed from the possession of evil. The patristic evidence is abundant in the belief in possession and expulsion of the devil by the power of the word of God.

The demonic possession of people objects, was accepted by the Orthodox Church today in the Sacrament of Baptism, in exorcising satanic powers, and in exorcising the devil in the case of a possessed person. In the early Church exorcisms were performed by a person especially trained and appointed to pray to drive out evil from those about to be baptized. Since the fourth century the place of the exorcist, as well as other functions and ministries, have been taken over by the priest. The exorcisms are prayers that invoke God to expel evil spirits. The priest prays to expel all evil, the spirit of error, of idolatry, of covetousness, of Iying and every impure act that arises from the teachings of the devil. The renunciation of the devil in baptism is used in every baptism that is performed in the Orthodox Church.

Orthodox Prayers of Exorcism

All the Orthodox prayer books include prayers of exorcism used by priests to fight the power of evil. The Orthodox Book of Prayers (Euchologion To Mega) includes three prayers of exorcism by Saint Basil and four by Saint John Chrysostom. They are read "for those who suffer from demonic possessions and every other malady." Through these prayers, the devil is exorcised (renounced) "in the name of God Almighty and the Lord Jesus Christ, and commanded to come out of the victim, who is liberated and redeemed by the eternal God from the energies (powers) of the impure spirits. The great ills that humanity suffers are attributed to the devil and demonic power."

From the Orthodox theological point of view, the following can be considered exorcists:
Christ is the exorcist par excellence for it is He who won the victory over the power of the devil.
Priests in the performance of the holy sacraments and in preaching the word of God follow Christ's example.
All Orthodox Christians are exorcists as they struggle against personal sin and social evil. In fact, "the whole Church, past, present and future, has the task of an exorcist to banish sin, evil, injustice, spiritual death, the devil from the life of humanity." Archbishop Iakovos, in a sermon at the Sage Chapel, Cornell University, spoke on exorcism in the following manner: "Both healing and exorcising are ministered through prayers, which spring from faith in God and from love for man.... All the prayers of healing and exorcism, composed by the Fathers of the Church and in use since the third century, begin with the solemn declaration: In Thy Name, O Lord.' " (Exorcism and Exorcists in the Greek Orthodox Tradition, March 10, 1974.)

EVIL SPIRITS ARE EXISTING
INDIVIDUAL SPIRITUAL BEINGS


Evil spirits are angels who became evil by their own free wills. As the prayers of the Church constantly teach us, angels are bodiless spirits. Because of our carnal condition, we are unable to see evil spirits but, "we have a more certain word of prophecy, and you will do well to pay attention to it as to a light which shines in a dark place" (2Pt.1:19). We cannot physically see the demons, but we can learn enough about them to defeat them. The source of this knowledge is the Holy Scripture which is lived, verified and made manifest in the life of the Holy Orthodox Church, and the experiences and teachings of our holy, God bearing fathers. From the beginning of the Holy Scripture, we encounter Satan as a truly existent individual. According to the testimony of the Book of Genesis, Satan entered into a serpent and convinced our first ancestors to violate God's commandment (Gn.3:119). The Holy Prophet Solomon affirms that the devil was the original cause of the sin which ruined all mankind: "God created man to be immortal and made him an image of His own eternity. Through envy of the devil, however, death came into the world" (Wis.2:2324). For this reason, Satan is called a "murderer from the beginning" (Jn.8:44).
From the book of Deuteronomy, we see that Moses was clearly aware of the existence of evil spirits. Enumerating the sins of the Hebrews, Moses says that they "sacrificed to demons, not to God" (Dt.32:17), that is, as St John Chrysostom explains, they sacrificed to idols in which demons dwelt. The devil tormented the Righteous Job (Jb.1:622); instigated David to "number Israel" (1Chr.21:1) and an evil spirit possessed Saul (1Ki. 16:1415 Orthodox Bible).
In the book of Kings (3Ki.22:1923 Orthodox Bible) and in the book of the Prophet Zachary (3:12), the evil one is accorded the personal attributes of envy, falsehood, cunning and wickedness. In the first case, he wanted to invite the King of Israel to violate God's commandment, promising to become a spirit of falsehood in the mouths of prophets and, in the second instance, he was calumniating the people of Israel. The holy evangelist John the Theologian binds the truth of the existence of evil spirits with the coming of the Son of God into the world. "He that sins is of the devil, for the devil sins from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work" (1Jn.3:8; cp Mt.12: 2429; Js.2:19). From these words, it follows that a renunciation of belief in the devil leads us to the renunciation of the truth of the fall and, consequently, also a renunciation of the mystery of redemption. Indeed, why would Christ have come to earth if the evil one did not exist? In thus renouncing the mystery of redemption, we must reject all of Christianity. The whole Gospel history testifies that the Lord Jesus Christ came to earth in order to destroy the works of the devil, to "deliver us from the evil one."
Christ the Saviour Himself said that Satan desired to sift the apostles like wheat (Lk.22:31). In other places of the Holy Gospel, we see cited the words of Jesus Christ about the existence of a whole kingdom of evil spirits, ruled by Satan, the malicious prince of this kingdom (Mt.12:2428), and Christ calls the evil one the "prince of this world" (Jn.12:31). How clearly did our Saviour teach about the existence of evil spirits when He healed those possessed by demons. Never did He suggest that possession by demons was a natural disorder (Mt.4:24;8:16; Mk.1:34;7:29-30, for example). The apostles, following Christ, also taught about the perniciousness of evil spirits and their ruinous influence on mankind. According to the Apostle, Christ took on our flesh so that, by His own death, He would deliver us from the power of "him who had the power of death, that is, the devil" (Hb.2:14). The apostles also revealed that the demons are intelligent spirits (Js.3:15) but evil (Acts 19:13). Being numerous (Rev.12:7-8) they form their own dominion, at the head of which is Satan (Rm.16:20). Finally, in the "Lord's Prayer," He quite clearly taught us to pray, "deliver us from the evil one," asking for deliverance from the power and influence of a real, personal being.
The fact that evil spirits are real, individual beings is revealed to us through the lives of the great ascetics who, being illumined by the Holy Spirit, saw the true character of the evil spirits, fought with and, by their lofty, moral lives, defeated the demons and gained power to cast them out of others. This understanding is also taught by the Church's divine services and prayers. Thus, for example, in the eighth prayer before sleep, the Orthodox Christian prays to God: "Deliver me from the besetting presence of the devil.... Snatch me from the jaws of the pernicious serpent." In the Mystery of Holy Baptism, the godparents are required; on behalf of an infant being baptized, to "renounce the devil and all his works and all his pride."
The Holy Scripture, therefore, clearly teaches that the devil exists as an individual spirit. And Saint John of Kronstadt says, "Stubborn unbelief in the existence of evil spirits is in itself actual demonic possession, for it bids defiance of Divine revelation; he who denies the evil spirits is a person already swallowed up by the devil and sitting in darkness and the shadow of death, in no condition to behold the Sun of Truth."
Therefore, our Saviour commands us to pray, specifically, "and deliver us from the evil-one," and not "deliver us from evil."

CHARACTERISTICS
OF EVIL SPIRITS


According to the prayers of the Church, evil spirits are bodiless, and immaterial created spirits. The Holy Scripture reveals to us what characteristics they possess. Evil spirits have mind and will (2Cor.2:11). They know God, and this knowledge fills them with fear: "You believe that there is one God...the demons also believe and tremble," writes Apostle James (2:19). More than once, evil angels confessed Christ the Saviour as the Son of God (Mt.8:29; Mk.1:24, for example).
Evil spirits know themselves, of course, for if the spirit of man is conscious of what it knows, then certainly the same must be said of evil spirits. Evil spirits know the condition of the present world, as we see in the Book of the Prophet Job. The evil one traversed the world and observed all people, and spoke of this to the Lord. The Lord did not refute these observations as false (Job 1:7-12), though clearly, the devil did not know the soul of Job, just as he and his demons can never approach the nature of our souls and know them. He can only judge from our deeds, actions and inclinations what the condition of our soul is, as the holy fathers tell us. St John Cassian says, "But the demons cannot possibly come near to those thoughts which have not yet come forth from the inmost recesses of the soul. And the thoughts too, which they suggest, whether they are actually or in a kind of way embraced, are discovered by them not from the nature of the soul itself, i.e., that inner inclination which lies concealed so to speak in the very marrow, but from the motions and signs given by the outward man." (First Conference of Abba Sereneus, para. 15).
St John the Solitary also tells us, "The devil cannot touch the nature of the soul, nor can he draw nigh it at all to harm it. . ."The devil does not touch or see the soul, but the members of the body only...and by harming one of the members he disturbs the thoughts which are active within them. For indeed, if he could draw nigh the soul so as to harm it, then he would also be able to harm it after it departed from the body, but this he would have to do while being unable to see it and having no power over it, because his power extends only as far as the body." (Sixth Dialogue With Thomasos).
The fallen spirits know something of future events, but not from real knowledge or prophecy. They can surmise what will occur when it is going to take place from definite, unchanging causes. The general future is known to them from God's revelation (3Ki.22:21-22 Orthodox Bible), and also from the observation of man's character. Once, a demon drew nigh to St Andrew the Fool and told him of the moral disorder of Christians in the last days. "In those days," the demon said, "people will be more evil than I am, and little children will surpass old people in wickedness. Then, I will not teach people anything; they themselves will fulfil my will." St Andrew responded: "How do you know this, for a demon does not know anything by prophecy or forevision?" To this, the demon replied: "Our father, Satan, conjectures these things and passes it on to us."
Though they have a mind, evil spirits have distorted it so much that, instead of the basic quality of the mind striving toward truth the main characteristic of the demon's mind is hatred toward truth. For this reason, the evil one is called "father of lies" in the Gospel (Jn.8:44) and "deceiver" in the Revelation (12:9). Having hardened their will in unyielding evil, the demons now direct their activity toward evil alone, but demons also have a certain freedom, because they can select one evil out of many. Instead of love, the being of the devil is filled with irreconcilable enmity toward God and His works. We have a constant enemy in the evil one, and therefore Apostle Paul advises Christians to array themselves in complete armour for struggle against the devil (Eph.6:1217), and Christ commanded us to pray constantly to God, our Father, "...deliver us from the evil one."

THE DWELLING PLACE
OF EVIL SPIRITS


While Satan was an obedient angel of God, he dwelt in heaven. He exalted himself higher than all spirits and thought to become an independent power. Because of this, the Lord cast him down from heaven (Lk.10:18), together with the angels which had followed him in his opposition to the Creator (Eph.6: 12; Rev.12:7). Since then, the abode of the devil has been the "abyss" or "space," which, in common usage, is called "the air." The correctness of this idea is evident from the Holy Scripture. In the Book of Job, the devil himself testifies that he went round about the whole world, passing through the air (Jb.1:7;2:2). The Holy Apostle Paul speaks of the fallen spirits dwelling in the air: "For we struggle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Eph.6:12). Here is how St Athanasios the Great explains this place: "The devil, the enemy of our race, having fallen from heaven, roams in the space of this lower air where, ruling over other demons..., with their cooperation, he deceives people with visions and strives to hinder those who struggle higher, of which Apostle Paul says, `According to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience' (Eph.2:2)". In the interpretation of Psalm 41, St John Chrysostom says, "How many demons are borne in this air? How many adverse powers? If God were to allow them to show their countenances, we would all be driven insane" (Works, Vol. 1, p. 722). St Antony the Great says simply that "demons are borne in the air" (Works, Pt. 3, p. 22). If evil spirits fill the air, then it is clear that they surround us from all sides. St Theophan the Recluse says of this: "The usual form of translation and understanding of the word `sky' signifies that spirits fly in the air, and just as air embraces us everywhere, so also do the spirits of malice draw near us, like mosquitoes in a damp place" (Interpretation of the Epistle to Ephesians, p. 412). Thus, in the Lord's Prayer, we are taught to pray, "...deliver us from the evil one."

THE INFLUENCE
OF EVIL SPIRITS


We do not speak so much of the power of evil spirits as of their influence. For, the power which demons do have is in their ability to lead man into delusion. Demons are deceivers and tricksters. St Antony the Great says of them: "We ought not to fear the demons or even Satan himself, `for he is a liar' and does not speak a word of truth...and his followers the demons are in the same condition, like serpents and scorpions to be trodden underfoot by us Christians...and let us not fear his visions seeing that they themselves are deceptive. Doubtless they appear, but in a moment disappear again, hurting none of the faithful...Wherefore it is unfitting that we should fear them on account of these things; for through the Grace of Christ all their practices are in vain....

Offline Draughts

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #135 on: March 13, 2013, 10:07:02 AM »
All you and multiple members do is try to start fights ....

You Ephraim started fights also with some of your posts, maybe not on this thread but on some past ones you surely have.

112 asked a question, I just provided some sources for it, that is the whole aim of my today's post, answering to a question.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #136 on: March 13, 2013, 11:07:07 AM »
You Ephraim started fights also with some of your posts, maybe not on this thread but on some past ones you surely have.

112 asked a question, I just provided some sources for it, that is the whole aim of my today's post, answering to a question.
What about you constantly making a bigger deal out of things than they really are?
 What about you and another member saying you worship Christmas trees, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Draughts

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #137 on: March 13, 2013, 11:43:54 AM »
I see certain things from a couple of JTFers were addressed to me, not directly but it was said that I am "too sensitive and defensive" when it is being discussed about religion and I would like to clarify some things in a positive manner here.

As I remember I was falsely accused in previous threads that I have supposedly said "only Christians will be saved, non Christians will go to hell, only Christians will be this, be that........". Completely false accusations. I would like to explain that is absolutely NOT what I have said nor what I was being thought throughout my life. Yes I was taking some things to my heart, for instance when there were posts from other members which allegedly tell about the fact  that only Jews will go to Heaven, and not Gentiles.

During my life I was thought something very different than that, and that is the salvation can be found outside of Christianity too, so we can all be saved.

It is hard sometimes to point out the teachings of one religion without being misunderstood as someone that is trying to oppose to people of other religion since the teachings of different religions are often contradictory. We all believe unhesitatingly that our own religion is the only religion leading us to God's truth, so it is often not easy to hold discussions in good faith when each of us is firmly convinced that the truth is in our own religion.

Besides Islam I believe people of various faiths should coexist and interact in peace. We should all seek for mutual understanding, in depth, of the teachings of religions about which we engage in dialogue. I don't think it is right when some people say all Churches are "against Jews", that is false. In spite of historical conflicts, ways of peaceful coexistence are possible today, but I guess some people like to be stuck in differences and divisions forever........

At certain times a major difficulty is to achieve mutual understanding of each other's faith.

Classifying almost every Church as "enemy of Jews" is defective and wrong especially with no rational and empirical knowledge of what today's Churches teach. Many of the conflicts that arise here between the different religions are due to misinformation and misunderstanding.

There can be salvations of all people, Christians or non-Christians. Those who think otherwise, they just falsely claim "they are trying to understand different religions" because they are doing something quite opposite from what they are saying.

As far as who will "go to Hell" and who will not, I will point out my views from my own religion, which are the salvation of all people, including non-Christians depends on the great goodness and mercy of the Omniscient and Omnipotent God who desires the salvation of all people. Those who live in faith and virtue, though outside the Church, receive God's loving grace and salvation.

Offline Draughts

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #138 on: March 13, 2013, 11:46:10 AM »
What about you constantly making a bigger deal out of things than they really are?
 What about you and another member saying you worship Christmas trees, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.

You lying *******! I never said I worship a tree! Liar! The dumbest thing I have ever heard is you saying "Christians are on the wrong path", saying if we renounce Jesus we will be on the right path. Read my post before this one, try to educate yourself Ephraim, you are not doing a good job at it so far.

Offline cjd

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #139 on: March 13, 2013, 12:03:59 PM »
You lying *******! I never said I worship a tree! Liar! The dumbest thing I have ever heard is you saying "Christians are on the wrong path", saying if we renounce Jesus we will be on the right path. Read my post before this one, try to educate yourself Ephraim, you are not doing a good job at it so far.
Personally I don't let things like the tree and idol worship accusations bother me... I actually get a laugh out of them some times... Let people believe what they like... It actually makes little or no difference in the larger picture... Christians are comfortable that they will eventually get to their final reward and Jews should feel they will get to theirs... What each think about the other makes little difference in the end. 
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

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Offline Draughts

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #140 on: March 13, 2013, 12:07:24 PM »
Personally I don't let things like the tree and idol worship accusations bother me... I actually get a laugh out of them some times... Let people believe what they like... It actually makes little or no difference in the larger picture... Christians are comfortable that they will eventually get to their final reward and Jews should feel they will get to theirs... What each think about the other makes little difference in the end.

I will try to think that way too, very good points cjd.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #141 on: March 13, 2013, 12:50:05 PM »
1. Demons

yes

2. Demonic possession

yes

3. a devil that controls the world, and if so, who does he use to control the world?

Not really. God is much more powerful and is in control of everything but allows Satan and demons to do things sometimes.

4. If the devil is in hell or in the world or both,

I think the earth.
 
5. That he is going to posses someone and take over the world

Yes. But God will defeat him.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #142 on: March 13, 2013, 12:53:28 PM »
What about the Holy Aborigine that has not been saved or has not heard of the Messiah? Can he not feel the Holy Spirit?

That's something a lot of people ask about and I don't really have a good answer to that right now.

Offline syyuge

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #143 on: March 13, 2013, 01:44:31 PM »
Can someone inform us, as to before and during the WW-II how many percentage of christians believed or felt that Schitler was the antichrist. The answer if any may speak volumes.
There are thunders and sparks in the skies, because Faraday invented the electricity.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #144 on: March 13, 2013, 01:49:16 PM »
Can someone inform us, as to before and during the WW-II how many percentage of christians believed or felt that Schitler was the antichrist. The answer if any may speak volumes.

I don't know but he did seem to meet many of the criteria for such. I think he came very close. He even wanted to implement a one world system and a thousand year reich. It turned out that he wasn't actually THE antichrist but I think that if you consider somebody like him, and make them WORSE then you'll see what they will be like.

Offline syyuge

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #145 on: March 13, 2013, 02:07:39 PM »
Can someone inform us, as to before and during the WW-II how many percentage of christians believed or felt that Schitler was the antichrist. The answer if any may speak volumes.

I don't know but he did seem to meet many of the criteria for such. I think he came very close. He even wanted to implement a one world system and a thousand year reich. It turned out that he wasn't actually THE antichrist but I think that if you consider somebody like him, and make them WORSE then you'll see what they will be like.

Schitler was actually a prelude to the antichrist. The Divine Force played a dry run to let all the people understand that if a dry run with absence of the nukes can be so devastating, then what will be the reality to come. To justify this only after the elimination of the Schitler, the Red Dragon and the Small Beast (666) were thrown to the Earth and so the muslamics got strengthened.
There are thunders and sparks in the skies, because Faraday invented the electricity.

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #146 on: March 13, 2013, 02:25:46 PM »
Of course Jesus is currently boiling in [censored].  (Gittin 57a)

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #147 on: March 13, 2013, 02:40:34 PM »
Of course Jesus is currently boiling in [censored].  (Gittin 57a)

Why didn't you post from your original JTF account, this one:


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Offline muman613

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #148 on: March 13, 2013, 04:05:30 PM »
Schitler was actually a prelude to the antichrist. The Divine Force played a dry run to let all the people understand that if a dry run with absence of the nukes can be so devastating, then what will be the reality to come. To justify this only after the elimination of the Schitler, the Red Dragon and the Small Beast (666) were thrown to the Earth and so the muslamics got strengthened.

This is silly.... So UnJewish... I would rather not go down this road.... Many churches did little or nothing during the Shoah.

What really matters is the Jewish perspective on the Shoah. Most of the Christian world said little, did little, and had much more culpability in allowing it to happen.

These so-called prophecies should be saved for a forum where it will not offend Jews.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

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Re: Christian JTFers: Who is/will be the Antichrist?
« Reply #149 on: March 13, 2013, 04:09:40 PM »
Judaism doesn't believe in 'fallen angels' or any of that foolishness. Satan is an angel who was created with a purpose. As opposed to what Lady 10 posted about her churches position I would like to clarify that the Jewish belief is that angels do not have 'free will' in the way we understand it. Angels are like robots who do the will of Hashem, and Satan is just another angel created by Hashem in order to create temptation in the human soul. No angels 'fell to earth' and that entire scripture is just another mistranslation of the Hebrew text.

Maybe there should be another forum for just Christian discussion because I see that a Jew reading this forum might think we believe some of these so-called prophecies (which we obviously do not) and our theology is coming from a 180 degree perspective. Fallen angels, angels defying the will of G-d, beasts and anti-messiahs.... All not Jewish...

http://www.torah.org/qanda/seequanda.php?id=793

Quote
In the Jewish tradition, Satan isn't a "fallen" angel; he's an angel whose occupation is tempting men to sin, as illustrated in Ch.1 of Job. "Satan" means something like "adversary"; it's used in that generic sense in Num.22:22. Satan's proper name is Samael. He guided the serpent in the Garden of Eden to tempt Eve. The angels who fell in Enoch's time were tempted by human women, as told in Gen.6:1-4. Their leaders were Uza (or Shemchazai) and Azael; the names Uza and Azael may be related to the Azazel of Lev.Ch.16. The Midrash (end of Devarim Rabbah) says that Uza and Azael were punished by being suspended between heaven and earth.

RE: The Nephalim (Fallen Ones) see http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-category/jewish-history/page/10/?p=919
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14