Author Topic: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day  (Read 8178 times)

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Offline yaaqov

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One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« on: July 14, 2007, 04:29:44 PM »
B"H

Erev Shabbath Qodesh Parshath Matot-Masa'ei 5767

One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day



It only takes one christian missionary to ruin my day. So you can imagine what 30 of them did to me yesterday. Yeah, I know what some of you will say:

"They can only have power over over you...if you let them."

That may be true to a certain extent, on an emotional or psychological level. Yet, when Jews fail to respond to missionaries*, at least in some way, then complacency, avoidance, numbness, and other manifestations of denial, of the true threat of christian missionaries, can assert a more profound and dangerous power.

Yesterday, I was sitting in the shuq (Mahaneh Yehudah) in Jerusalem, having coffee and trying to refocus, deciding what else I would try to accomplish in the city before making the long trek back to the Shomron (Samaria). Then I heard it...the singing, the guitars, and the proverbial tambourines, and I knew what was about to make its way around the corner. The volume grew louder; my nerves grew more aggravated. The over-sized Israeli flags made their appearance first, above the heads in the Thursday evening, pre-Shabbath crowd. A man with a huge, Yemenite shofar (horn) made periodic blasts, further announcing their presence.

Usually what happens to me when I encounter christian missionaries is that the weight of responsibility for the spiritual fate of the entire Jewish People bears down upon me. Some of you know exactly what I'm talking about. It may sound silly and irrational, but yesterday was no different. The anger can become overwhelming. I knew I had to do something. But, what? My anger can really get in the way of my thinking rationally, and has gotten me into trouble more than once. As the make-shift parade passed by my table, I was handed a pamphlet. I accepted it, then ripped it up, through it back at the stunned lady who had handed it to me, and started yelling [various epitaphs] in Hebrew. My goal was to communicate with the on-lookers, not the paraders.


Close by two yeshiva students were trying to explain to an apparently secular Jew what was what happening, and why it was wrong. I joined it. The students pointed to me, in a gesture for their to listen to me, as they weren't so confident speaking in Hebrew. The secular Jew said he was unwilling to talk to me, but I was too aggravated and angry. I don't know how, but I immediately calmed, and told him that was understandable. He listened after all, and we ended up having a pleasant talk. He wanted to know why their parade of singing was a problem. "They have their path; we have ours."

With an Arab listening in, I responded saying that:

The Yishma'elim (Arabs) want to murder our bodies; the christians want to murder our souls.

Torah never entered this discussion. Although in retrospect, it probably should have. My partner in this dialog and I shook hands, and I proceeded to leave the shuq. Then, I realized I had forgotten to purchase one of the very things I had come to the shuq to purchase in the first place: hilbeh**. Back I went to the second or third best place in Jerusalem to buy hilbeh, depending upon whom you ask. Sure enough I encountered the missionary parade on another pass. That was it. I could not grab, rip-up, and stomp on enough of their literature. I could not yell at them enough. I was intent on waking each and every one of my fellow Jews up from their denial, saying: These people are dangerous. Do something.


I looked around, and was please to find that some Jews were doing something. There were various approaches. One man, who looked like he could have been from Nahla'oth or Yo"Sh (Judea & Samaria), followed the paraders, calmly explaining in Hebrew to the on-lookers the truth nature of the parade. Another young man, possibly from Nahla'oth, walked in front of the parade, singing along to the tune, yet cleverly changed the words to the Hebrew for "Here come the christian missionaries. Be careful and stay away from them." Haredim generally appeared to go about their business, yet also did not hesitate to show support for the various anti-missionary statements. Their interventions were probably too subtle for me to detect. A few may also have been quietly explaining the ultimate goals of the parade participants. A yellow-pinned, Habadniq was also warning people, acknowledging me and my actions with a nod.

Several shuq-goers were shocked by the hutzpah of the relatively straight-forward literature, and followed my example by ripping it up. Whatever actions are to be taken, I find it important, t the very least, to point out that these individuals are missionaries, and that they mean business. As an English-speaker, I am more likely to catch the key phrases in the words of their songs or literature. As an immigrant from the U. S., I [along with other Americans reading] tend to have more experience in recognizing missionaries than native-born Israelis.

I'll let you learn for yourselves what we, as Jews, are ideally supposed to do in such a situation, from the Ramba"m's Hil. Avodah Zarah weHuqoth HaGoyim, chap. 7, politically-incorrect, far from subtle, but true.

Criticize my actions if you will. But, at least I didn't take another approach, like some Jews do: Deny that they're a threat, and kiss their...

...wallets.


*********************************

*Some anti-missionary organizations suggest that Jews refrain from engaging in arguments with missionaries. Contacting such anti-missionary organizations, asking them for advice, volunteering to help, or simply visiting their websites each constitutes a "response."

Anti-missionary organizations:

Jews For Judaism
Yad LeAchim
Lev LeAchim: 1-800-366-100 (Israel)


**Hilbeh is a Yemenite condiment based on fenugreek seeds.
Ya'aqov Ben-Yehudah

newman

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2007, 05:03:09 PM »
G_D BLESS YOU, YAAQOV! :-*

That's the best, most upliftifting thing I've read since I joined the forum.

Thankyou from the bottom of my heart for doing SOMETHING to combat these murderers of precious Jewish souls.

Thankyou also for living in the land that G_D promised to B'nei Yisroel and for living in Samaria where Jews have a G_D given right to live.
When the self-haters in Tel Aviv call you a 'settler'..........accept it as a badge of the highest honour.

My only regret is that I could not have been there with you to perform my famous Australian folk dance .........the Head Busting Two Step on these persuers of Jewish souls.

Not far from where you acted so bravely are the graves of some of my countrymen.....the Australia Light Horsemen who liberated Jerusalem in 1917 (only to have the evil Brits turn it over to the evil arabs!). I'm sure the spirits of those gallant Aussies were cheering you on.

The blight of the shtetl has truly been purged from your soul. You embody the great spirit of the Maccabees. You are a shining example for every Jew.

Once again....Thankyou and G_D bless.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2007, 01:02:31 AM by newman »

Offline yaaqov

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2007, 05:06:43 PM »
B"H

Thanks, Newman!

 ;D
Ya'aqov Ben-Yehudah

Offline Nic Brookes

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2007, 05:08:49 PM »
Let's not reignite the discussion.

Offline yaaqov

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2007, 05:14:20 PM »
Let's not reignite the discussion.

Uh-oh.  Which discussion?  You can just send a link, if you want.
Ya'aqov Ben-Yehudah

newman

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2007, 05:15:17 PM »
Let's not reignite the discussion.

Nobody is turning this into anything anti-christian, Nic.

Yaaqov's story needs to be read by EVERY Jew and righteous gentile.

G_D bless him for it.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2007, 12:57:59 AM by newman »

Offline Ehud

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2007, 06:25:45 PM »
G-d bless you Yaaqov.  This is a very uplifting and inspiring story and I commend you for what you did.  I completely understand how your "rational" side was swept away in that sort of a situation but if you ask me, you were doing the most rational thing possible.  You did NOT overreact, if people harassed these soul snatchers wherever they were found, they would leave the country and we would be ridded of them for good.  When it comes to saving souls, even violence is warranted.  Luckily I have never encountered any of these people in Israel, even when I visit Jerusalem, because I fear that I would resort to physical violence to remove them from the area.  But I know that is hopeless because they will always come back.  That is why what you did is EXACTLY what needs to be done.  Violent tactics with these soul destroyers will not work, the only thing that will create long-lasting protection from them is to educate the Jewish people.  Educating people on the true nature of what they are trying to accomplish as well as clarifying their manipulative language into a way Israelis can understand are of primary importance.  It makes me happy and proud to know that there are people out there like you, trying to do all they can to protect the Jewish people, I only wish I could have been there to join you.       
"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

newman

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2007, 10:01:24 PM »
Have to disagree, Ze'ev. Yad Lachim in Israel beat the snot out of these spiritual murderers and smash up their offices. It may not stop them completely but it sure as heck sets them back and slows them down. Every time one of them shows up with a black eye or bandaged head, more potential missionaries will decide to do something else with their time.

Offline Ehud

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2007, 10:38:49 PM »
Yes of course newman but my point is that the best defense is a solid education in Judaism because if one has that it doesn't matter what these soul crushers do.  But like I said, physical punishment is legitimate.  When one attacks these foes in small numbers, exposing them for who they are and what they're trying to accomplish is adequate but if course if you have a group of people a severe poundage is effective and in order.
"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

Offline Lisa

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2007, 11:17:53 PM »
Guys, I don't want us to get into this discussion again.  While I can understand being against missionizing, I don't think this is the place to be discussing such things.  We all need to be working together, and this topic can be potentially divisive, so I'm locking this thread. 

Offline Lisa

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2007, 11:20:31 PM »
And I'll have to agree with Jabotinsky.  None of this would be an issue if our Jewish leaders, educators and rabbis were anything like Chaim Ben Pesach. 

Offline Ehud

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2007, 12:52:17 AM »
There is no controversy here Lisa.  Chaim has made it clear again and again that proselytizing to Jews outside but DEFINITELY inside of Israel is not permitted under any circumstances.  This thread is completely legitimate and the heroism of Yaaqov should be commended rather than shunned.
"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

Offline yaaqov

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2007, 03:45:12 AM »
Guys, I don't want us to get into this discussion again.  While I can understand being against missionizing, I don't think this is the place to be discussing such things.  We all need to be working together, and this topic can be potentially divisive, so I'm locking this thread. 

Who do you mean by "all?"  Feel free to answer me via a PM, if you'd prefer.

Many topics CAN be devicive.  And, yes, unity IS important.  And, whenever we have "difficult" discussions, I believe it's helpful to listen, and when disagreeing, to disagree respectfully.

However, education is also important.  I believe that one of the greatest things about forums is that it gives us an opportunity to keep each other informed.  I have no real clue what's going on in the US, and a lot of people are dying for news, truthful news, to come out of Israel, especially out of Yehudah, Shomron, and maybe even the middle of Me'ah Sha'arim, places where it's not so easy to gain access.

Arutz 7 does a pretty good job, but they can't cover everything.

In addition, "Ain ahavah b'li tokhahah." (There is no love without rebuke.)  A lot of people have good intentions, but have some nutty ideas about how to go about tackling certain issues,...myself included sometimes.

Forums are a good place to hash things out, and to help each other formulate effective strategies.

I noticed that the topic was unlocked, so maybe you agree, and giving us a chance to show our good behavior.   ;D
Ya'aqov Ben-Yehudah

Offline Ehud

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2007, 04:32:42 AM »
For the record, the topic was unlocked by jdl4ever after I demanded that the forum be unlocked.
"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2007, 04:35:57 AM »
It's cool Yaaqov, I think Lisa was worried this might turn anti-christian but that's not the case at all here.

And please, post as much news as you possibly can re: the Jews in Judea and Samaria. It's obvious to most of us that the knesset kapos have it in for you guys and we want to hear about every single injustice and outrage. Consider nothing too trivial. Good news would also be most welcome as we could certainly use some.

I hope you will continue your counter-missionary activities. It seems you may have a calling. Hook up with Yad Lachim, they will do anything neccessary to protect Jewish souls.....and I mean anything.

May Hashem bless and protect you.

Offline yaaqov

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2007, 04:51:57 AM »
For the record, the topic was unlocked by jdl4ever after I demanded that the forum be unlocked.

Thanks for the correction, and for the action.
Ya'aqov Ben-Yehudah

Offline Shlomo

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2007, 12:03:01 PM »
For the record, the topic was unlocked by jdl4ever after I demanded that the forum be unlocked.

While I really enjoyed the post and didn't think it should have been locked, personally... I think it was poor taste and hurtful to unlock it without saying something to Lisa, a Global Moderator, first.

We need to have more unity and respect than this. She was simply trying to prevent a religious battle and wasn't trying to do anything malicious. The very same action (with the same results) could have been achieved with kindness like the Torah commands us.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline cjd

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2007, 12:25:10 PM »
For the record, the topic was unlocked by jdl4ever after I demanded that the forum be unlocked.

While I really enjoyed the post and didn't think it should have been locked, personally... I think it was poor taste and hurtful to unlock it without saying something to Lisa, a Global Moderator, first.

We need to have more unity and respect than this. She was simply trying to prevent a religious battle and wasn't trying to do anything malicious. The very same action (with the same results) could have been achieved with kindness like the Torah commands us.
I agree 100% and I also found the post very interesting and would like to know more about this situation that up until learning about it here on JTF was unaware goes on so rampantly.
Lisa was only trying to do what she thought was best. She should have been consulted before it was unlocked. What would have been the harm if the thread was locked for a few hours.
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

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Offline Lisa

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2007, 03:23:08 PM »
So I see the thread has been unlocked.  And I understand and respect that Chaim is against all missionizing, especially in Israel.  But I do not want to see people bashing Christianity.  Granted, this is a discussion of events going on in Israel.  But then again, this is the English speaking forum, where we have Jews and Christians.  So I don't want to see another fight. 

Offline mosquewatch

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2007, 04:42:49 PM »
Just throwing my 2 cents in here. Being a Christian, some of my fellow believers take things to an extreme. There is no need to parade down the middle of an airport, market or wherever "Sharing" my Theology.  I am against the idea of proselytizing to the Jewish people. I have no need to force my beliefs down anyone's throat. Considering this is 2007, I believe in this day and age that we all understand what each of us believe in. If some one asks me what I believe about something , then I will share my thoughts on the situation. For those that believe in the Theology I believe in, let others in peace . In my opinion after speaking with the Jewish community online, they find it distasteful when non Jews try to convert them to other Theologies. Respect the Jewish wish, and don't cause the Jewish people any more discomfort than they already have.

All that being said, when the Messiah comes, we can just ask Him "Is this the first or second time you have been to Israel? " ;) Best of wishes to all, love the forum !

Jeff 
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newman

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2007, 09:04:42 PM »
Excellent post, mosquewatch. I wish more people shared your outlook on this matter.

Offline Ehud

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2007, 01:53:58 AM »
Thanks for the story, yaaqov.

Here are couple of very informative posts that I made in another forum as a reply to a missionary preacher:
[link removed]

This is a FANTASTIC post, Israel7.  You are very well informed, thanks so much for sharing this with us.  This is one of the best posts I've seen from anyone on JTF.  By the way, I LOVE your avatar.   ;) 
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 06:31:58 PM by jeffguy »
"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

newman

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2007, 02:29:37 AM »
Thanks for the story, yaaqov.

Here are couple of very informative posts that I made in another forum as a reply to a missionary preacher:
[link removed]
Excellent post and link, Israel.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 06:31:34 PM by jeffguy »

Offline Israel7

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2007, 09:25:39 AM »
Thank you all, but I don't know why my post gone.

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: One Christian Missionary Can Ruin My Day
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2007, 05:13:37 PM »
Thank you all, but I don't know why my post gone.
Lisa didn't like the post since she said the link was insulting to Christians so she removed it.   
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