Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
A New low for messianics
Ephraim Ben Noach:
I think the NT was changed a lot by by Paul, Rome, ect. I don't think most of the stuff that is against Judaism came from him... When Jesus was alive it was a turbulent time for Israel, and yes, I do believe he didn't like Gentiles and Roman oppression.
Sveta:
--- Quote from: אפרים בן נח on June 24, 2013, 09:27:50 PM ---I think the NT was changed a lot by by Paul, Rome, ect. I don't think most of the stuff that is against Judaism came from him... When Jesus was alive it was a turbulent time for Israel, and yes, I do believe he didn't like Gentiles and Roman oppression.
--- End quote ---
Good point. And in fact, Rabbi Tovia Singer used a good quote to describe it. "Rome did not convert to Christianity but rather Christianity converted to Rome".
It was in the time of the Council of Nicaea (not in Rome itself but under the Roman Emperor Constantine) where a lot of current day Christian doctrine was decided. It was in this council where the Trinity officially became a foundation of the Christian faith. It was in this council where Chrisitian holidays were decided upon.
This paved the way for the books of the Christian bible to be included and which ones to be omitted. For example including the gospel of Matthew and excluding the gospel of Thomas and so on.
Ephraim Ben Noach:
--- Quote from: IsraeliHeart on June 24, 2013, 11:41:43 PM ---Good point. And in fact, Rabbi Tovia Singer used a good quote to describe it. "Rome did not convert to Christianity but rather Christianity converted to Rome".
It was in the time of the Council of Nicaea (not in Rome itself but under the Roman Emperor Constantine) where a lot of current day Christian doctrine was decided. It was in this council where the Trinity officially became a foundation of the Christian faith. It was in this council where Chrisitian holidays were decided upon.
This paved the way for the books of the Christian bible to be included and which ones to be omitted. For example including the gospel of Matthew and excluding the gospel of Thomas and so on.
--- End quote ---
Exactly ma'am!
mord:
--- Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on June 24, 2013, 09:01:09 PM ---Mord just because jesus called gentiles "dogs" and other such negative things doesn't make him a good Jew.
1) We as Jews don't consider someone or refer to someone as a "dog" or such just because he is a gentile and we generally respect different people. Now if they are an enemy like the Arab-Nazis of today I have no problem and I do refer to them as dogs.
2 That (even if you somehow equate him being some "right-wing" nationalistic Jew still doesn't take away the fact that he did some things against Jewish law and even he admitted it and in other places he said to follow it. Soo he basically condemns himself. by his actions and his words.
and P.S. fyi I dont understand how any gentile can seriously look up to him after seeing the way he spoke about them. They should be more offended by him and his words then the Jews could ever be.
Also just to add to your comment, it would be like saying that someone who calls himself a Kahanist and makes extreme nationalistic statements but then advocates the eating of pork is a good Jew and on top of that a good Rabbi that no Jew can or should oppose.
--- End quote ---
I agree with you i would never call most people dogs [although i like dogs] but at that time Israel was occupied every day the people had to live with terrible persecution,many people acted this way towards gentiles because they felt it was the source of their problems
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: mord on June 25, 2013, 07:43:51 AM --- I agree with you i would never call most people dogs [although i like dogs] but at that time Israel was occupied every day the people had to live with terrible persecution,many people acted this way towards gentiles because they felt it was the source of their problems
--- End quote ---
How do you know if people did or did not act this way? At the same time people like Rabbi Akiva and the Rabbis of the Talmudh lived and they don't refer to gentiles as "dogs" soo why are you whitewashing the actions of jesus? Either way if this was the "savior" of the gentiles yet her refers to them like that, I personally would never look up to him especially if I was a gentile.
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