Author Topic: Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars  (Read 3095 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline edu

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1866
Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars
« on: May 22, 2013, 03:40:22 AM »

http://www.algemeiner.com/2012/12/28/haaretz-resurrects-the-khazar-jews-theory/
Quote
Every number of years the theory is advanced that the Jews of Europe are actually descendants of the Khazar kingdom, a mostly Turkic people whose king and nobility converted to Judaism in the early eighth century, allowing them to become a buffer state between Islam and Christendom.

When the Khazar kingdom collapsed in the 13th century, according to the believers in the Khazar theory, its population fled into Eastern Europe and served as the core of European Jewry. Most Jewish historians argued for centuries that after the destruction of the Temple and the Bar Kokhba Revolt, many Jews who had been exiled moved up the Italian peninsula north of the Alps into the trading cities along the Rhine River in Germany. From there, European Jewry began to populate the countries of Eastern Europe in the centuries that followed.

In his monumental work, “Arab Attitudes to Israel,” written in the early 1970s, Professor Yehoshafat Harkabi described the Khazar theory as one of the arguments marshaled in the Arab world to assert that the Jews of the modern period were not the descendents of the biblical of children of Israel and hence had no historical right to recover their land. This position is also voiced in the Palestinian media today.

For example, Jarir al-Qidwa, who was an educational adviser to Yasser Arafat and later chairman of the Palestinian Authority Public Library, appeared on PA television on August 2, 2004 and explained that the original Jews of the biblical period were dispersed among the nations and that it was the “Khazar Jews who live in Palestine today.” Prominent voices within the Muslim Brotherhood have also advanced the idea that modern Jews are descendants of the Khazars, as well.

The Khazar theory was strange. If only a small number of Khazars in the court of their king converted to Judaism, then how could they become the basis for the masses of European Jewry? Arab historians in the 10th century reported that most of the Khazars were Muslims, in any case. Moreover, if the Khazars, whose language was close to Turkish, were the source for European Jews, then why did Yiddish evolve as a European Jewish language that was linguistically close to German and Hebrew, but not to Turkish or any other Central Asian language?

Nonetheless, the Khazar theory had its advocates. It was popularized in 1976 by Arthur Koestler in his book, “The Thirteenth Tribe.” It again was revived in 2008 with the publication of Shlomo Sand’s “The Invention of the Jewish People,” which was broadly discredited by leading Israeli professors from Israel Bartal of the Hebrew University to Anita Shapira of Tel Aviv University. Nonetheless, even though it was trashed by many critics in Israel, it became an international best-seller.

Last Friday, Haaretz again revived the Khazar theory about the origins of European Jewry. In a huge article, illustrated with a map of Central Asia and a sketch of a Turkic horseman, which undoubtedly drew in readers, it showcased the work of Dr. Eran Elhaik, a young researcher from the Department of Mental Heath at Johns Hopkins University. His findings were published in an academic journal in December 2012, which presumably made them newsworthy. His principle argument was that based on genetic research, “the rise of European Jewry is therefore explained by the contribution of the Judeo-Khazars.”

Further down in the same article, Haaretz at least mentions that there is another side to what genetics tell us about the origins of European Jews. It refers to the work of Professor Harry Ostrer, who is the author of “The Genetic History of the Jews,” a new book also published this year by Oxford University Press. Looking at his credentials, his work should have been at the top of the story. Ostrer served as the director of the Human Genetics Program at New York University School of Medicine, where he worked for more than two decades. Today he is head of genetic testing at Albert Einstein College of Medicine. Unlike Elhaik, he does not accept the argument that European Jewry comes from Central Asia but rather he says that Jews around the world can trace their genetic history to the Middle East 2,000 years ago.

Who is right? It is hard for the layman to get into a learned debate about genetics, so what do historians have to say about the Khazar theory of the origins of European Jewry? Many of the writers who have entered this debate, including Koestler and Sand, rely on the writings of Professor D. M. Dunlop of Columbia University, who was the most authoritative historian of the Khazar kingdom. He uses Arabic, Hebrew and Russian sources, as well as documents from the Cairo Geniza, to reconstruct the Khazars’ history.

In his book, “The History of the Jewish Khazars,” Dunlop considers the theory that after their defeat in 965, the Khazars sought refuge in Eastern Europe and became the basis of European Jewry. But he quickly dismisses the idea, stating “this can be dealt with very shortly” after which he explains that there is “little evidence” to substantiate the theory. In any case, the truth of Jewish peoplehood should not be tied to the latest academic article based on genetic research.

Despite all the evidence to the contrary, the advocates of the theory tying the origins of European Jewry to the Khazar kingdom have persisted. In many cases over the last few decades, it appears that they are motivated mainly by a hostile political agenda that aims to advance the delegitimization of the Jewish state, rather than by any hard, new evidence that they have been able to marshal to date.

Offline syyuge

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 7684
Re: Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 11:34:29 AM »
I do not believe in Khazar theory. It is something like that some people earlier used to say that during his last days Mughal King Akbar and his court converted in to Deen-e-Elahi brand of Hinduism.
There are thunders and sparks in the skies, because Faraday invented the electricity.

Offline kyel

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 684
Re: Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2013, 10:17:28 AM »
Well of course not...wasn't Shlomo Sand paid by and is a Neo-Nazi? (yes i heard that before) Khazars are Asian I believe and not many Jews have significant asian ancestry

Offline briann

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 8038
  • Mmmm HMMMMM
Re: Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2013, 01:04:13 PM »
I certainly don't smell like a Khazar.

Online angryChineseKahanist

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 10529
  • ☭=卐=☮
Re: Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2013, 01:32:37 PM »
I smell like a Khazar.
U+262d=U+5350=U+9774

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2013, 02:17:58 PM »
I am perplexed... What in tarnations does a khazar smell like?
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18298
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
Re: Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2013, 02:43:56 PM »
I am perplexed... What in tarnations does a khazar smell like?

You don't want to know!  :'(

Online angryChineseKahanist

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 10529
  • ☭=卐=☮
Re: Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2013, 02:51:49 PM »
I am perplexed... What in tarnations does a khazar smell like?


oi yoi yoi
always taking it literally.
U+262d=U+5350=U+9774

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2013, 03:09:46 PM »
Judging from the comments, I would rather not know that smell..
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Maimonides

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 645
  • The Greatest Jewish Sage
Re: Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2013, 03:54:52 PM »
Who, but anti-semites, cares if Ashkenazic Jews are descended from Khazars? Judaism allows conversion, so if it is true then descendants of Khazars Jews are as Jewish as King David.
“You must accept the truth from whatever source it comes”- Maimonides

Offline mord

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25853
Re: Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2013, 04:02:35 PM »
I think the people of Transcaucasia are the khazars Jews don't fit the description                 http://www.apfn.org/THEWINDS/library/khazars.html   

More with above link   

    This peculiar and obscure race inhabiting that land were described as blue-eyed and of very fair complexion. Commonly they had long reddish hair and were reported as very large of stature and fierce of countenance. 11 Other sources have added observations that there were "Black Khazars" and "White Khazars," noting that the latter were "light-skinned and handsome, while the former were dark-skinned." This has, however, been rather conclusively refuted by scholars who have established that the distinction was not racial but social. The "Black" or "Kara" Khazars constituted the lower strata or caste, while the "White" or "Ak" Khazars were of the noble or royal classes. This type of class distinction was fairly common in Eastern Europe as evidenced by the more commonly known terms "Black Russian" and "White Russian," denoting not skin color but class. 12

    In his book An Introduction to the History of the Turkic Peoples, Peter Golden claims that the Chinese T'and-shu chronicle describes the Khazars, generally, as "...tall, with red-hair, ruddy-faced and blue-eyed. Black hair is considered a bad omen." 13
THE KHAZARS OF CONQUEST AND WAR

    Of the ferocity and warlike tendencies of the Khazars there is little doubt and much historical evidence, all of it pointing to a race of people so violent in their dealings with their fellow men that they were feared and abhorred above all peoples in that region of the world.

    The Arab chronicler Ibn-Said al-Maghribi writes, "they are to the north of the inhabited earth towards the 7th clime, having over their heads the constellation of the Plough. Their land is cold and wet. Accordingly their complexions are white, their eyes blue, their hair flowing and predominantly reddish, their bodies large and their natures cold. Their general aspect is wild." 14

    The ninth-century monk Druthmar of Aquitaine, in his commentary on Matthew 24:14 in Expositio in Matthaeum Evangelistam, stated that the Gazari, or Khazars, dwelt "in the lands of Gog and Magog." 15

    Legends and stories abound, some of which are true according to the above quoted Aquitaine monk, that center around Alexander the Great and his attempt to enclose the Khazars and quarantine them, due to their violent and barbaric nature, from the rest of the civilized world. This endeavor apparently failed, Druthmar claimed, and they escaped. Some legends even claim they were cannibals. 16
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2013, 04:22:17 PM »
There was indeed a Khazar people who converted to Judaism. There is a famous Jewish book called the Kuzri which explains how the king of the Khazars converted and had his noblemen convert along with him after he had investigated all religions of the time.


Quote
http://m.chabad.org/m/article_cdo/aid/112514

Hasdai Ibn Shaprut
(circa 4675-4735; 915-975)

About a thousand years ago, there lived in Spain a great Jewish scholar and statesman, called Hasdai ibn Shaprut. He was born in Jaen, Spain, about the year 4675 (915). His father, Isaac benEzra, was a man of great learning and wealth. Under the care of his father, the young Hasdai studied the Talmud, and later also the Hebrew, Arabic and Latin languages, in which he became very proficient. Hasdai displayed a special interest in medicine and became a famous physician.

Hasdai's great scholarship, and especially his fame as a physician, attracted the attention of Caliph Abarrahman III, in Cordova. The Caliph appointed Hasdai his court physician. When the Caliph became more closely acquainted with his Jewish physician, and saw that he was also a man gifted with great organizing ability and statesmanship, he appointed Hasdai Inspector General of Customs, and his chief diplomatic adviser. In this capacity, Hasdai continued to serve under the Caliph as well as under his successor, Hakam II, who took over the Caliphate in the year 4721.

Hasdai rendered great service to his land by establishing good diplomatic and commercial relations between the Arab Caliphate and the Christian kingdoms, as far as Byzantium. The foreign diplomats who had occasion to meet Hasdai, thought very highly of him, and praised him to their courts. Emperor Romanus II of Byzantium sent Hasdai a medical text book written in Greek, which Hasdai with the aid of other scholars translated into Arabic.

Owing to his great wealth, wisdom, and high rank, Hasdai was in a position to offer great help to his brethren. He was the Nassi (head) of all the Jews of Spain, and did all he could to improve their economic and cultural position. A great Talmudist himself, Hasdai built schools and academies to spread the knowledge of the Torah, and invited Talmud scholars of renown to teach there, supporting both the schools and the scholars from his own means. Hasdai also supported the great Babylonian academies in Sura and Pumbaditha, and kept up a regular correspondence with the Gaonim (leading Talmud Authorities) in Babylon and North Africa, (notably Kairwan).

Hasdai surrounded himself with many famous Hebrew scholars and poets such as Menachem ben Saruk, and Dunash ben Labrat. Menachem ben Saruk, the famous Hebrew Grammarian, was in charge of Hasdai's Hebrew correspondence. Thus, under Hasdai's influence and with his support, Hebrew poetry and scholarship began to flourish in Spain, marking the beginning of the Golden Era, which produced such outstanding philosophers and poets as Rabbi Yehuda Halevi, Ibn Ezra, Ibn Gabirol, Maimonides, Nachmanides, and others.

It was during the life of this great Jewish leader, that the famous Gaon Rabbi Mosheh ben Enoch one of the "four captives," reached the shores of Spain. Many of our readers may be familiar with the exciting story of the four Gaonim from Babylon, who, by the hand of Divine Providence, were taken prisoner by pirates on the Mediterranean Sea, and subsequently held for ransom in the leading Jewish communities of those days, namely Egypt and Kairwan, Italy and Spain. These famous Jewish scholars were quickly redeemed, and they set up Jewish centers of learning in their new places of refuge. Thus, when the famous Babylonian academies, were eventually destroyed, the Torah had already established itself in four new centers.

When Rabbi Mosheh ben Enoch was brought to Cordova, he was redeemed by the local Jewish community. Discovering that the refugee was the famous Gaon, Mosheh ben Enoch, Hasdai set him up as head of a great Talmudic academy in Cordova. To foster Jewish Talmudic studies, Hasdai procured manuscripts of the Talmud from the Babylonian academies, and gave. them to the students of the Cordova academy for study. For many years, Spain was one of the leading Torah centers in the world.

A very interesting historical document was left by Hasdai in the form of his correspondence with the Jewish King of the Khazars. For hundreds of years, the Khazars were a mighty people who lived on the Steppes between the Don and Volga Rivers. Their realm stretched westward as far as Kiev. The kings of the Khazars were powerful rulers who intermarried with the families of the Byzantian and Arabic monarchies. It is not clear when the Khazars decided to give up their heathen ways and accept Judaism as their faith. The Khazar Jewish kingdom captured the imagination of the Jewish people of those days. Hasdai was eager to learn more about them, for he had only scant reports of the Khazar kingdom which he received through diplomatic channels. Hasdai decided to make personal contact with them. In those days distance made it very difficult to make or maintain contact with remote countries, and being that the Khazar kingdom was at the easternmost end of Europe, it seemed almost an impossible task.

Hasdai, however, was a man of determination. He addressed an affectionate letter in Hebrew to Joseph, the King of the Khazars, and sent it to him with a special emissary, Isaac ben Nathan. When Isaac reached Constantinople, he was detained by the Byzantian authorities, who feared a direct alliance between Spain and the Khazars. On the pretext that the roads were not safe, Hasdai's emissary did not obtain the facilities to continue his journey to the capital of the Khazars.

Hasdai was not discouraged. He sent another emissary, Isaac ben Eliezer, but this time by way of Hungary and Russia. Aided by the Jews of those countries, Hasdai's second emissary made his way to Itil, and delivered Hasdai's warm greetings to Joseph.

King Joseph of the Khazars replied in Hebrew, answering all of Hasdai's questions concerning the history of the Khazars and their acceptance of Judaism. King Joseph told him how his ancestor, Bulan, decided to give up his heathen beliefs in order to accept one of the three leading faiths, Judaism, Christianity, or Islam. King Bulan then arranged for theologians of each of the three faiths to participate in a debate in his presence, in which each of them was to prove why his faith was the true one. When the debate was over, Bulan was convinced that the Jewish faith was the true faith; and he, together with his entire family, and four thousand Khazar nobles, formally accepted Judaism. Gradually, the majority of the Khazars followed the example of their king, and accepted the Jewish faith.

Unfortunately, about the time when Hasdai's letter reached King Joseph (about 4710), dark clouds appeared on the horizon of the Khazar kingdom. The Russian and Byzantian rulers combined to destroy the Jewish kingdom of the Khazars, and about 15 years later, Sviatoslav of Russia defeated the Khazars and devastated their land, including their capital of Itil. Nevertheless, the Khazars continued to play an important part in that section of the world for another century. Thereafter, their fortunes waned altogether, until their fate became unknown.

At any rate, the exchange of epistles between Hasdai and King Joseph of the Khazars throws much light on the history of the Khazar kingdom which might have otherwise remained quite obscure.

Hasdai died in Cordova at the age of about sixty, sadly mourned by all Jews, and by all those non-Jewish friends who were privileged to know him.

http://ravkooktorah.org/ebook-kuzari.htm

Quote
“The Kuzari is holy and pure, and the fundamentals of Israel's faith and the Torah are contained within.”

Rabbi Elijah, the Gaon of Vilna (1720-1797)

The Kuzari is a classic work of Jewish philosophy, completed in 1140 C.E. by celebrated Jewish poet and philosopher Rabbi Yehudah HaLevi. His goal was to defend Judaism against attacks from philosophers, Christian and Moslem theologians, and Karaites.

The book, broken up into five sections, takes the form of a dialogue between the pagan king of the Khazars and a Jewish scholar who was invited to instruct him in the tenets of the Jewish religion. It is loosely based on the true story of the conversion of the Khazar royalty and aristocracy to Judaism in the 8th century.

This edition is based on the 1905 translation by Prof. Hartwig Hirschfeld of Jews’ College, London from the original Arabic. However, great efforts have been invested in order to create a work that is accessible to the modern reader.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18298
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
Re: Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2013, 04:50:11 PM »
Judging from the comments, I would rather not know that smell..

I don't know what they smell like but I thought it would be funny to post that.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2013, 04:56:27 PM »
I don't know what they smell like but I thought it would be funny to post that.

Your humor is compatible with mine... i found it funny... I just couldn't imagine what a khazar really smells like...


See my post from Christmas 2011 in 'Ask Muman613: Almost Live' @ http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,25101.msg530486.html#msg530486
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline JTFenthusiast2

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2828
Re: Most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazars
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2013, 09:04:49 PM »
Who, but anti-semites, cares if Ashkenazic Jews are descended from Khazars? Judaism allows conversion, so if it is true then descendants of Khazars Jews are as Jewish as King David.

This is their attempt to say, "See you Jews never lived in Biblical Israel, your claims are a farce!"