Author Topic: Melchizedek  (Read 12254 times)

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Offline Rubystars

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Melchizedek
« on: June 07, 2013, 12:56:30 PM »
Why did Melchizedek know about the real true God? What would his religion be called since it existed prior to Judaism? Were there other groups of people (not in the line of Avraham) that worshipped the real God? There must have been for Melchizedek to be a real follower of God.

Offline Zelhar

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2013, 01:29:54 PM »
Why did Melchizedek know about the real true God? What would his religion be called since it existed prior to Judaism? Were there other groups of people (not in the line of Avraham) that worshipped the real God? There must have been for Melchizedek to be a real follower of God.
There were still other people who knew of God during Abraham's life time. Rashi proposes (probably based on some midrash) that Melchizedek was in fact Shem. By simply counting the years as described in the Torah you can see that Shem had still been alive during Abraham's lifetime (he actually outlived Abraham).

On the other hand, by the way this is phrased in the Hebrew source, and by the names and titles that we know of Canaanite gods, it may be that Melchizedek was not monotheistic, but he was a priest for the supreme god of the pantheon of gods in a polytheistic religion. "El Elyon" means supreme god. "El" was the head of the Canaanite pantheon, something like Odin is in the Norse or Zeus in the Greek pantheon. In Hebrew "El" is the generic name for a god.

Offline Zelhar

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2013, 01:45:47 PM »

Gen     Name       YOB     AAF     AAD       YOD         
1       Adam        1      130     930     931         
2       Shet        130       105     912     1042            
3       Enosh       235       90      905     1140            
4       Kenan       325       70      910     1235   
5       Mehalel     395       65      895     1290
6       Jered       460       162     962     1422            
7       Khanoch     622       65      365     987            
8       Metushelach   687       187     969     1656*            
9       Lemech      874       182     777     1651            
10      Noakh       1056   502     950     2006            
11      shem        1558   100     600     2158            
12      Arpaxad     1658   35      438     2096            
13      Shelakh     1693   30      433     2126            
14      Ever        1723   34      464     2187            
15      Peleg       1757   30      239     1996            
16      Reu         1787   32      239     2026            
17      Serug       1819   30      230     2049            
18      Nakhor       1849   29      148     1997            
19      Tarakh       1878   70      205     2083            
20      Abraham       1948   100     175     2123            
21      Yitzkhak   2048   60      180     2228            
22      Jaakob       2108            147     2255            
23      Jehuda                             
24      Peretz                             
25      Khetzron                           
26      Ram                                 
27      Aminadav                       
28      Nakhshon                       
29      Salma   
30      Boaz   
31      Obed                                   
32      Yishay                                 
33      David                                   
34      Shlomo                                 
35                                         
36                                         
37                                         
38                                         
39                                         
40                   

notes:
Gen=generation, YOB=year of birth, AAF=age at fatherhood, AAD=age at Death
YOD=year of death.   

* 1656 is the year of the flood.
               



Offline muman613

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2013, 03:21:08 PM »
Good Answer Zelhar, indeed Melchitzedek was Shem according to our midrashim...



http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/1326593/jewish/Who-Was-Melchizedek.htm

Question:

In this week's Torah portion, after Abraham's victorious return from battle, we read:"Melchizedek the king of Salem brought out bread and wine, and he was a priest to the Most High God. And [Melchizedek] blessed him, and he said, "Blessed be Abram to the Most High God—Who possesses heaven and earth—and blessed be the Most High God, Who has delivered your adversaries into your hand." And [Abram] gave him a tithe from all."1

Who was this Melchizedek? What sort of priest was he, and why did Abraham give him a tithe?

Response:

Taken alone, this tiny anecdote does indeed seem strange. The Torah tells us nothing else about this man and his relationship to Abraham.

The ancient Targumim (Aramaic interpretive translations) identify Melchizedek as Shem—son of Noah. Shem was one of the links in the chain who transmitted the G‑dly traditions that originated with Adam. These traditions were carefully handed down from generation to generation, and Shem—who headed an academy—was a key conductor of these teachings. The Midrash tells us that he was so perfect and so spiritually advanced that he was born circumcised.2

So why did the priesthood pass from him to Abraham's children? The Talmud explains that this happened as a result of his having blessed Abraham before blessing G‑d in the verses above. This is reflected in the only other place in Scripture where Melchizedek is mentioned: in Psalms 110:4, where we read, ". . . you are a priest forever because of the speech of Melchizedek." Because of Melchizedek's ill-chosen speech, the priesthood was taken from him and given to the seed of Abraham forever.3

FOOTNOTES
1.   Genesis 14:18-20.
2.   Bereishit Rabbah 43:6.
3.   Talmud, Nedarim 32b.
At first glance it seems problematic to say that the priesthood was taken from the progeny of Shem and given to the seed of Abraham, as Abraham himself was a grandson of Shem.

Tosafot offers two possible explanations: a. The priesthood was taken from the entire clan of Shem and became the exclusive privilege of Abraham’s seed. b. Natural progression would have conferred Shem’s status on his firstborn descendants—not Abraham. Thus, it was only because of this encounter that the priesthood was given to Abraham specifically.

RaN explains that the intent of the Talmud here is that the priesthood of Abraham’s seed was now only by merit of the righteous Abraham and not due to their relation to Shem—which is why they are the only descendants of Shem deemed worthy of honor.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2013, 03:23:08 PM »
http://www.torah.org/qanda/seequanda.php?id=154


Quote
Who was Melchizedek?

He was the king of Jerusalem ("Shalem") in Abraham's time (Gen. 14:18). The Targum and the Talmud identify him with Shem the son of Noah (Nedarim 32b). He was also a priest; the Rabbinical sources give no details about his priesthood, but they indicate that he was not as worthy a person as Abraham. The people who passed down religious traditions from Adam to Abraham and his descendants include Shem. On the identification of Shalem with Jerusalem see Psalms 76:3. The commentaries point out that Jerusalem was referred to as the City of Justice (Isaiah 1:26) and its kings were called "King of Justice" (Malki-Tzedek: Gen: 14:18) or "Lord of Justice" (Adoni-Tzedek: Joshua 10:1). For additional information (and other viewpoints) see the article Melchizedek in the Encyclopedia Judaica, Vol. 11, Cols. 1287-9.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2013, 04:01:20 PM »
http://www.noahidenations.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=326:shem-the-father-of-the-priesthood&catid=92:acharei&Itemid=569

 Shem – The Father of The Priesthood

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In this week's Torah Portion we become acquainted with the famous idea that a Noahide who engages in Torah is compared to the High Priest, [Bava Kama 38a] as the Verse states, [Vayikra 18:4-5] "My Judgments you shall do and My statutes you shall keep – to go with them I am Hashem Your God. And you shall keep my Laws and my Judgments that you will do them [i.e. the] Man and Live in them – I am Hashem!" The Talmud in Bava Kama then learns out that the Torah is unique in its usage of the term, "Man" as opposed to a specific type of Man. Thus when any Man learns Torah, all are equal and unique in the eyes of God; both Priest of the Highest and the Noahide...and every type of Man. This begs the question: what really is a Priest and where does the Priesthood come from?

We get our first good look at the Priesthood at what could be the essence of the entire Torah: Shem / Malki Tzedek and his meeting / exchange with Abraham. The Midrash relates to us that as Abraham received the Laws of the Priesthood from Shem in the passing of the Blessings between the two, Abraham by means of these Laws merited the revelation of the Torah in its entirety. Likewise, as the Laws of the Priesthood are found in Vayikra, the middle, or the heart of the Torah, Torah ideas such as the Noahide who is compared to the High Priest is an aspect of revelation that contains the entire Torah.

The story between Shem and Abraham took place on the Temple Mount after Shem had the privilege of stepping onto the New World as its Priest after the Flood in the merit of his Kindness (חסד) with the animals and his promise to God to fashion the World with principles based on Righteousness (צדקה). Thus after some 400 years of Shem teaching and spreading Torah as High Priest of the World based out of Mt. Zion, Shem finally found his long lost relative – someone that would understand Shem's Universal message and essential Torah: Abraham. The secret was that the only way this rite of passage could take place would be under the direction of the Laws of the Priesthood. With Shem as the fully functioning and experienced Priest, he was ready to plant the seeds of Torah for eternity, and all he needed was a candidate to express his kindness and righteousness to; Abraham was more than ready! With Shem ready for this monumental meeting amongst Men, the only missing component was the vessel by which could reach Abraham with the full thrust of what was to take place: The Giving of the Torah at its first stage in History.

It is precisely this point where Shem was able to initiate a Primordial Innovation to the Torah to ensure its Taking: A Blessing! By engaging in Blessings between the two, (a Blessing is contained in Shalom / Peace) the Laws and full Revelation would take place. As Abraham (who took the position of novice to Shem) took the Liberty to Bless Shem first, Shem seized the moment to Bless in return, to Bless God properly, and to correct Abraham's order of operation. The platform was then set for Abraham to take the Priesthood by understanding the proper conduct of a Priest by Shem's behavior and his "rebuke" to Abraham. By understanding that God must at all times be Blessed first, the essence of the Torah was then given to Abraham in the vehicle of Laws of the Priesthood; It was Shem's innovation and Blessing to which this possible.

The two Men then acknowledged each other, God, and the Place in the Holiest of terms, as they had just changed The World for all of time in Jerusalem, and brought success and completion to Shem's mission he undertook while exiting the Ark. Abraham, who was in Awe of Shem's Torah (and therefore received revelation of God) decided to contribute by naming the location Yirah (Jeru) while Shem, the Master Craftsman of the Blessing, Priesthood, and the Giving over, appropriately named the Place Shalom (Salem, i.e. "Malki Tzedek the King of Salem). With both of them being full of respect and honor of each other, they saw this as a mutual Blessing and heartfelt admiration, one that would be seen as the opposite of a contradiction (in naming the Place two different names); rather it was the expression of the Will of God! From that moment onwards, the site was referred to "Jerusalem", as it is until this day and forever onwards.

The Torah further clarifies their bond by "ambiguously" stating that "he" gave "him" a tenth of everything (which is in connotation of giving to the Priest). The Zohar notices this unique word choice and states, "[wait!] Who gave to Who!? – The idea being that both were now on equal terms, and once the Akeida (Binding of Isaac) would take place, Abraham would then become the Father of the Kingdom of Priests, and it would be Shem who would teach this [Abraham the Priest] to Isaac, from the mouth of the original Priest, Shem!

Later, at Mt. Sinai (where Shem would be waiting in a quasi-state for 1300 years) the offspring of Shem and Abraham would receive the Torah (this time from the mouth of God) and take upon themselves to be a Kingdom of Priests. However the connection between both types of Priests, Noahides and Jews would be eternal, as it would be a Noahide (-Aravnah the Noahide, who sold Zion to King David) who would be in control of the Holy of Holies – The Abode of the High Priest! Yet we see that the Noahides are directly connected to the heart of the Priesthood, and the goal of which learning Torah brings upon a Man: revelation of God.
Just as Aaron, the High Priest was able to innovate, even to the ears of Moses, and Pinchas, the offspring of Aaron, who was able to innovate the unique Law of morality (the slaying of Zimri and Cozbi) which was beyond Moses' awareness as well; so too the Noahide takes his firm grasp in his ability to innovate the Torah as well. For when the Noahide, who learns the Torah as it was given to Moses on Mt. Sinai, in the Hebrew, or "Ever" aspect to Shem and his original Torah, he enjoys the company of God, and God enjoys his company. One of God's delights is to hear innovations in Torah that are taught over to the righteous souls in the Garden of Eden who are awaiting their destination to the World of Truth; Noahide and Jew alike.

The Priest carries a weight of burden on his shoulders, as he must remain Holy and refrain from certain relationships. One proof that this word "Man" comes to us in this Parsha, alluding to the Priesthood, is to look at the very next passage in the Torah, which deals with forbidden relationships. The Noahide in his learning Torah is actually putting his soul in conversion, as he is becoming like the Priest: Holy and in revelation of God (The Torah there clearly says, as a revelation: "I am Hashem!"); which is found amongst the Laws of the Priesthood in the center of the Torah no less!

We have Torah and Priesthood in the merit of Shem, but also the unique ability to innovate Torah in vessels of kindness, righteousness, Blessing, Peace, and Awe. The Torah may have been given on Mt. Sinai, among the Nation of Priests, but it is the Princely Nation of Priests, the Noahides, that are destined to open the Books to a whole new level of innovation in a union of Priests (Jew and Noahide), as the Craft of Torah was specifically placed for eternity, within each and every Noahide, going back to none other than Shem himself.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 08:43:56 PM by אפרים בן נח »
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2013, 08:41:00 PM »
http://soulmazal.blogspot.com/2012/06/shem-and-jethro-two-sinai-noahides.html?m=1

Friday, June 8, 2012
Shem and Jethro: The Two Sinai Noahides
NoahideNations.com


Parashas Beha’aloscha

Jethro: Continuing Shem at Sinai

Rabbi David P. Katz

In this week’s Torah Portion of Beha’aloscha we encounter a very interesting junction in the Torah that naturally sheds light on the exact nature of Jethro and his “conversion” status. As we suddenly happen upon Moses and his request of Jethro to remain with the Jewish People, the Torah relates a series of poor behavior by the Jewish People, such that the Torah in the Hebrew has placed two upside down letter “Nun’s” (ננ) to make a break in the flow. The Torah then takes this opportunity for Moses to address the Ark of the Covenant to journey and defeat Israel’s enemies. One interesting fact to note in this exchange is that between the upside down Nun’s, the text consists of 85 letters. This happens to be the minimum amount of components to comprise a proper book and subsequently the commentators call this digression “the hidden book within the Torah.” It is then explained that the Torah went on a digression so that the poor behavior would have a break as to not impose a grudgeful image upon the Jewish People and to inspire repentance. When one continues to look into matters in this auspicious text, there is yet another mystery; one that also holds weight and suggests the passing of judgment on the Jewish People: “what is the reality with Jethro?” The point of contention has repercussions in understanding whether or not Jethro was right to leave and come back twice, or if the Jewish People were right or wrong in their dealings with Jethro.

After the traveling in the encampments had settled down, we find Moses engaging Jethro his Father-in-law saying, “We are journeying to the place of which Hashem has said, ‘I shall give it to you.’ Go with us and we shall treat you well, for Hashem has spoken of good for Israel.” Upon which Jethro responded, “I shall not go; but rather to my land and to my family shall I go.” Moses returns and says, “Please do not forsake us, inasmuch as you know our encampments in the wilderness, and you have been as eyes for us. And it shall be that if you come with us, then with that goodness with which Hashem will benefit us, we will do good with you.”

Before delving into the matters of Jethro [in a linear fashion explaining each step of the way that Moses, the Jewish People, and Jethro all interacted and what they really meant], let it first be known why [if Jethro has been in conversion to Noahide] there would be a precedent for Jethro to leave Mt. Sinai at the Giving of the Torah only to return and leave again at our current position in Beha’aloscha.

A Noahide is a proper Noahide by two essential components: He is a Noahide, presumably going back to Noah either by genealogy or in concept and by accepting the Torah and Her Seven Laws as was dictated to Moses by God on Mt. Sinai. Assuming that these conditions are reached, one is an authentic Noahide. The essential father of these conditions, albeit in a unique way is Shem: the son of Noah, with the only difference in that he accepted the Torah from his father Noah instead of Moses. It should be noted however that Noah was reincarnated into Moses! Thus Shem was the first Noahide and from him there would be a tradition of Noahide that would eventually root in Sinai. [Shem was present in Sinai for 1300 years for this reason – to guarantee and promote the Noahide and Torah until firmly established on Earth forever which happened with the advent of King Solomon. It was King Solomon that relieved Shem of duty, freeing him to go on to his next ultimate mission: Redemption.] Once at Sinai, the Torah was given, and the path of the Noahide was now being routed at Sinai. This path would be authentic according to what Noah and Shem had established in the beginning. If Abraham was a “pre-Israelite” and Moses was then the first “Sinai-Jew”, then Shem and Noah would be the “primordial Noahides” [based on absolute righteousness] and at Sinai there would need to be an authentic Noahide, that would become through the Torah’s mandate of having this achieved by going through the Torah, Moses and Sinai. Jethro was the elected one to merit this rite, and we see from the Scriptures that Jethro’s peculiar behavior was not peculiar at all – he was becoming a Noahide as Noahides would become and be rooted through Sinai and Moses for all of time, thereby extending Noah and Shem for eternity! With this in mind, Jethro did not abandon the Jewish People and show ambivalent behavior towards being Jewish; rather he was being a perfect and authentic example of how a Noahide honors Hashem while walking the Ultimate Path of the Righteous Gentile. The Torah would go on to call this level of existence a “Ger Tzedek” – a righteous convert[/s(ion)] implying that Jethro was in constant conversion [from Love of God as opposed to Fear of God, which would be the manner to convert to Judaism according to the Talmud.] to the point that he was called a convert. From this even though we can technically term Jethro perhaps a convert to Judaism, but the consistency in the Verses and proper understanding of the Torah is to realize that these terms and Jethro’s behavior was the highest order of compliment of being a Noahide! [The first Noahide of Sinai thereby honoring the missions of Shem and Noah!]

When we delve into the comments made by the commentator Rashi on these Verses, the dialogue between Moses, Jethro, and the Jews does not fully add up, unless we address the Truth of Jethro as a Noahide! From that point on, Moses doesn’t ship out Jethro from haste or ill-will; rather he is addressing him as a Noahide! Jethro isn’t abandoning the Jewish People [and Hashem for that matter]; rather he is making it possible to be a Noahide! For if Jethro would have stayed and repaired schism, he would receive his Torah, Moses would receive for the Jews, and this would spawn to Individual Nations that would soon split, divorce, and never find Unity, leaving the World fractured eternally. Thus if Jethro leaves and accepts the Torah from Moses, then we find that from schism comes the ultimate repair of schism, one that the scar of the original schism would become a sweetened spot and association of Love and Hashem’s Goodness! And finally, the Jewish complaints simply do not make sense if Jethro is a Jew, yet when we see Jethro as the Noahide, all of a sudden the Jews are left wondering, “Why would Jethro want to be a Noahide as opposed to being a Jew? Does he really Love God as much as he claims? He probably just Fears God like any other Jew!”

The simple answer to the Jewish complaint is that Jethro is not Jewish! Everything adds up for Jethro to be a Noahide, one that is in conversion of his soul to be one of a Lover of God, much like Shem his Father who was called “Shem My Lover!” [Of God] Thereby Moses then addresses Jethro – “are you sure you do not want to be a Jew? You are of superb caliber as it was you who knew of our encampments and again it was you who he even invented the Sanhedrin!” And yet again, Jethro expresses that he is a Noahide and by doing so he shows the capabilities of this Noahide Nation that he was essentially the father of from Sinai, as he inherited the Mission of Shem and Noah! In closing, we find that Jethro was not acting strange or in deviance at all, rather he was fulfilling his destiny as a servant of God! After all, only two Men had ever used the term, “Baruch Hashem” / “Blessed is Hashem!” Noah and Jethro! The Gematria [numerical Value] of Baruch Hashem is the same as Joseph still lives (254). This was Jacob’s cry upon finding out that Joseph in fact did not die. The same can be applied to Noah and Jethro: That which Noah started – Still Lives! As with Sinai, Jethro Lives! And the Noahides Still Live! The fulfillment of this will be with Moshiach Ben David, whose main task as the King Messiah is to give an additional thirty commandments to the Noahides, and as it is said of David: David Lives Forever! The Noahides in their expansion that will resonate equality and the sweetness from schism that has found Unity and Love will also be able to proudly say: Alive Forever with new found intention that will merit yet another Baruch Hashem!

Baruch Hashem for Jethro, for through him, Sinai was complete, from Shem, to Moses, and to the future of the World and its existence. There is a lot to learn from Jethro, such that even the nature of Truth must be fully understood to be fair in how one sees reality. The Torah had a string of ill advised behavior from the Jews in the Torah Portion, and if one reacts too quickly, he may pass judgment upon Jethro, in a sensitive area in the Torah that is trying to express only good points in People and the Nation of Israel. Not only should one in the passage be careful with Jethro, for his misinterpretation may only add fuel to the fire. Yet if one sees the merit of Jethro in the location of the upside down Nun’s, perhaps not only is there a repair in the Torah’s string of bad events, and judgment can then be a source of merit, but perhaps this is a Divine message of the repair of schism. Jethro is the hero of this repair, and even though Jethro accepted Noahide and Torah from Moses on Sinai, let us not forget the bigger picture and the original repair of schism that Jethro and Sinai are really pointing to: Shem and Abraham! Sinai is the perpetuation of Malki Tzedek and Abraham, upon which Moses and Jethro took on that relationship in an eternal Torah form. Yet we can always look at the blueprint: Shem pushed Abraham into Judaism to the same tune that Jethro was compelled into being a Noahide. And even amidst two [new] radically different Nations that Shem had now developed, there has never been Brotherhood like Shem and Abraham…that is not until Moses and Jethro found each other [and with the testimony that that was in fact the Truth], a meeting that is destined for the Future, when the schism will be eternally healed, honoring Shem and the forefathers onwards, enclothed amongst the Jewish People and the Noahides that together, will embrace each other, and the Redemption, which will be ushered in by none other than the Righteous priest, “Shem the son of Noah.”

Shabbat Shalom: May we continue with Sinai, and thereby continue into the Bias Moshiach! {as the Chofetz Chaim stated about the Geulah...and bring Merit of the Kohen Tzedek - Shem along with the other Craftsmen: MBD ,MBY ,and Eliyahu!

Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2013, 04:30:36 PM »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 09:21:56 PM »
According to our belief Yitro actually was a full fledged convert to Judaism...

http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/1410091/jewish/Chief-of-the-Converts.htm

http://www.jewishideas.org/angel-shabbat/yitros-conversion-lessons-our-time-thoughts-pa
Ok, let's say he did fully convert... Did he stay with Israel the whole time, or go to the land of Israel? How do we know he didn't teach the Noachide law to others? Didn't one of his family members kill someone from Ameleks army?
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2013, 09:42:03 PM »
Ok, let's say he did fully convert... Did he stay with Israel the whole time, or go to the land of Israel? How do we know he didn't teach the Noachide law to others? Didn't one of his family members kill someone from Ameleks army?

The Torah says that Yitro returned to his land...

Ohr Sameach website :

http://ohr.edu/1473

12 Why did Yitro return to his own land?
     18:27 - To convert the members of his family to Judaism.

I am not sure what you refer to concerning Amalek... One of the reasons Yitro came to Mount Sinai to join Moses was because he heard of the Splitting of the Sea, and the battle against Amalek...

http://koltorah.org/volume11/17Shemot.htm

Quote
On the words Vaishma Yitro Rashi asks: "What report did Yitro hear that he decided to come to Moshe?" Rashi answers Kriat Yam Suf Umalchemet Amalek. However, Rashi comments on the words Et Kol Asher Aseh Elokim Limoshe Liyisrael Amo that Kol Asher Aseh refers to the following three miracles: the Mann, the Be'er, and Amalek. Three difficulties emerge: Firstly, why is it necessary to learn the miracle of the victory against Amalek from two different phrases (ie. Vayishma Yitro and Kol Asher Aseh). Secondly, why does Rashi describe the victory against Amalek first as Milchemet Amalek and then as simply Amalek? Finally, why are the miracles of Kriat Yam Suf and Milchemet Amalek ascribed to Vayishma Yitro and the miracles of the Be'er, Mann, and Amalek ascribed to Kol Asher Aseh; after all Kriat Yam Suf and Milchemet Amalek were also miracles that "Hashem did"?
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2013, 09:57:50 PM »
I can't find it right now, but someone from Jethros family let's someone from an army against Israel in for safety, and kills them. I think stabs them?
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2013, 10:54:12 PM »
I found this discussion of the descendents of Yitro...

Quote
http://www.yutorah.org/_materials/summary224.html

The Gemarrah tells us that the descendents of Yitro were members of the Sanhedrin, the Supreme Court, whose job it was to be the “eyes of the congregation” through their just and wise judgment. It was this sense of gratitude and chessed, notes the Derash David along with a recognition of absolute truth both the God of the Jews and absolute right and wrong through which Yitro merited  having such descendents. According to the Medrash, Pharaoh had sought advice on how to deal with the troubling explosion of the Jewish population. Of his three advisors, one, the prophet Balaam, told him to kill the Jewish babies. The second, Job, remained silent. The third, Yitro, ran away, for he understood what Pharaoh was up to, recognized the true God, and fled for his life from any association with Pharaoh. This combination of truth and chessed that he bequeathed to his descendents and that continued for generations as they sat in the halls of justice was the hallmark of Yitro’s character.

And so Moshe pleaded with Yitro. Come with us. We owe you so much. And we will continue to owe you as your descendents will open our eyes to further insights into the Torah.

But now that I think about it I begin to believe you are talking about the great Pinchas. The portion of Pinchas is coming up soon (3 weeks from now, Chukat, Balak, and then Pinchas)... Pinchas was a zealot who killed Zimri and Cosbi. Pinchases Mothers Father was Yitro....

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/535208/jewish/Who-Was-Pinchas.htm

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2013, 11:16:46 PM »
I found this discussion of the descendents of Yitro...

But now that I think about it I begin to believe you are talking about the great Pinchas. The portion of Pinchas is coming up soon (3 weeks from now, Chukat, Balak, and then Pinchas)... Pinchas was a zealot who killed Zimri and Cosbi. Pinchases Mothers Father was Yitro....

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/535208/jewish/Who-Was-Pinchas.htm
I love the story of Pinchas! But I think I may of been mixing it with Ja'el...
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2013, 10:22:01 AM »
I'm really confused about the long lifespans of some of the people in the Bible. I just don't see how that would work with human biology. In the past people generally didn't live as long as they do today in modern societies with modern medicine, etc. so how could people way back then live for so long? Someone else had asked me about this and I told them I didn't know the answer.

It seems really strange to me that it would be Shem because if he really didn't live for hundreds of years and it was just a metaphor or something then Shem would've been dead already. However if he did literally have a long lifespan then it makes sense.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2013, 11:04:34 AM »
I thought he lived a long life... There is a theory that before the flood the people of that time were far more advanced than we even are today.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2013, 10:27:08 AM »
I thought he lived a long life... There is a theory that before the flood the people of that time were far more advanced than we even are today.

It's just one of those things I may never completely understand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2013, 01:26:20 PM »
It's just one of those things I may never completely understand.
I don't think we will fully understand until we die or fulfill our personal mission. I think the the reason we are not enlightened or live as long as they did is because of the sins committed by humans before the flood. You see in the Bible that the lifespans start to  drastically shorten after the flood.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2013, 02:30:51 PM »
It's just one of those things I may never completely understand.
Also, "I think" we will reach their level of knowledge one day. And we will either destroy the place and Gd will save the righteous, or we will all come close to Gd and peace will prevail.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 08:46:20 PM by אפרים בן נח »
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 02:53:36 PM by אפרים בן נח »
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2013, 02:49:29 PM »
http://asknoah.org/faq/70nations



What happened to the nations descended from Shem and Eber?

The 70 nations of the world came from and are named after the 70 descendants of the three sons of Noah which are listed in Gen. 10:1-32. Of these, 26 were descended from Shem, Noah’s youngest son. These are named in Gen. 10:21-31. For a complete commentary on the identity of these nations in modern terms, see Artscroll’s Bereishis (Genesis), vol. I, pp. 308-332. Many of the points below are taken from this source.

The Asian continent was originally apportioned by Noah to Shem and his descendants. This included the land that is now Israel, but they were later forcibly displaced from there by the Canaanite nations, who descended from Ham, Noah’s middle son (Gen. 10:6). (See Rashi’s comment on Gen. 12:6.) Shem was the original king of Jerusalem (which was originally called “Salem”), and he became known as Malkizedek (“Righteous King,” Gen. 14:18).

Shem had five sons who became nations:

Elam: Their territory was between Shushan (in Persia) and Media. In the days of Abraham (before Abraham had children), the nation of Elam had a king named Chedarlaomer (Gen. 14:1). He ruled by force over the five kingdoms of the metropolis of Sodom and Gomorrah. When those servant kingdoms rebelled against him, Chedarloamer allied himself with three other kings (including Amraphel = Nimrod) to fight and defeat them, as described in Gen. 14:1-16. Abraham subsequently fought and defeated the four kings in order to save his nephew Lot, whom they had kidnapped from Sodom.

Asshur: Asshur became the nation of Assyria, located to the north of Babylon. An individual by this name is mentioned in Gen. 10:11-12, in the story of the Tower of Babel. Rashi comments that when he saw that his children were listening to the wicked Nimrod and rebelling against G-d by building the Tower, he departed from them. He built several cities, including the famous Nineveh, which was known as “a great city unto G-d” (i.e. dedicated to G-d) (Jonah 3:3).

Arpachshad: According to Josephus, he was the ancestor of the Chaldeans. They first lived in the coastal area of the lower Euphrates, and later moved inland. Ur, the birthplace of Abraham, was one of their main cities.

Lud: Josephus seems to identify them with the Lydians of Asia Minor.

Aram: These are the Arameans, who lived in the area of Syria, with Damascus as their capital.

Aram had four sons who became nations: Uz, Hul, Gether and Mash.

Hul: Joshephus identifies this land as Armenia.

Mash: There is a Mount Mash in Mesopotamia that may have been named after this nation.

Arpachshad had one son who became a nation – Shelah. Shelah was the father of Eber (or Ever).

Eber: Eber was the great-grandson of Shem. He, along with Shem, received prophecy and was one of the great righteous people of the generations. Eber and Shem established an academy of Torah learning. They both outlived Abraham. Eber became a nation, and he had two sons who became nations – Peleg and Joktan.

Peleg: Abraham was descended by 5 generations from Peleg. The dispersion of the nations from the Tower of Babel in Babylonia (present-day Iraq), occurred in the year of Peleg’s death. (See Rashi’s comment on Gen. 10:25.) There is a city of Palga at the junction of the Euphrates and Chaboras rivers.

Joktan: He had 13 sons who became nations that settled in the area of Arabia. Among these are:

Hazarmaveth: He is identified with Hadarmaveth in Southern Arabia.

Hadoram: Doram is the name of a fortress in Southern Arabia.

Uzal: This is the original name of the San’a, the Arabian name for the capital of Yemen.

Dikalah: Diklah is used to refer to the palm-tree region in Judea.

Obal: The Samaritans refer Obal to the Mt. Eibal region in Samaria, near Shechem.

Sheba: Sheba is mentioned as a distant, wealthy people who were renowned for their gold, precious stones and frankincense. The Queen of Sheba became famous through her meeting with King Solomon. (I Kings 10:2,10) Some identify them with the Sabaeans of Southwest Arabia.

Havilah: Havilah is to the southeast of Arabia toward the Persion Gulf and India. There is a place Havilah in Bahrein on the Persian Gulf.

Jobab: Jobab is identified as the Egyptian coastal city of Jobabiti.

Abraham was personally acquainted with Noah, and he was 58 years old when Noah died at the age of 950. (Note that the numerical value of Noah’s name in Hebrew, No-ach, is 58, hinting that Abraham would be the one to take over Noah’s holy work.) Noah was the third in the line of Oral Tradition of the kabbalistic secrets of creation, and Abraham was the fourth (Adam – Lemech – Noah – Abraham). Abraham had two brothers, Nahor and Haran. Nahor was the grandfather of Rebecca (the wife of Isaac) and Laban. Laban was the father of Rachel, Leah, Bilhah and Zilpah, the four wives of Jacob. The wicked prophet Bilaam (Num., ch. 22-24) was descended from Laban.

Haran was the father of Sarah and Lot. Through his two daughters, Lot fathered the nations of Moab and Ammon after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 29-38). The Middle-Eastern nations of Moab and Ammon, which border on Israel, are the Kenizzite and Kadmonite who are mentioned Gen. 15:19.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2013, 10:03:49 AM »
Thank you for all the information. I'm just wondering how people were able to live that long medically.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2013, 01:21:11 PM »
Thank you for all the information. I'm just wondering how people were able to live that long medically.
G-d is the master of the universe, the master scientist. Right? So what if Gd changed some of the elements of nature, so that we age more rapidly because of our sins. As we advance in technology and science, we start to identify these elements that shorten our lives. Therefore we solve some of the problems and we live longer than we use too. But as we advance and keep sinning, Gd will punch us in the back of the head and if that doesn't wake us up, he'll destroy us all.
Whahahaha!
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 07:47:09 PM by אפרים בן נח »
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2013, 06:05:25 PM »
The Chabad website attempts to explain this from the Jewish perspective:

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/1703178/jewish/Why-Did-People-in-the-First-Millennia-Live-for-So-Long.htm

Dear Rabbi,

Can you explain why the lifespans of the early generations were incredibly long? According to Genesis, Adam died at age 930, Noah was almost 500 when he started building the ark (not bad!), and Methuselah lived a world record 969 years. So what happened? Why don’t we live that long anymore?


Answer:

The longevity of our patriarchs raises several questions. What does it feel like to hit 900? When did they have their midlife crisis? Were centenarians getting up to teenage mischief? Did parents tell their children, “Stop acting like a 40-year-old!”?

Whatever the case, the first few generations of humanity lived extremely long lives, and then after Noah’s flood we see a dramatic reduction in average lifespan—people begin to live as long as we do today.

We know that each soul that comes into the world arrives with a set of missions to fulfill. The person housing that soul is given a lifespan that is long enough to complete these missions.

The main difference between the earlier and later generations is that the first generations of humanity had large, “all-encompassing” souls. People in later generations possessed only fragments of those original souls. Those souls were broken up and shared between several individuals.

The earlier generations had big souls and long lifespans, because they had a lot of work to do. In later generations, these big souls were spread out among thousands and millions of individuals, in the form of smaller souls with less work to do, and thus shorter lifetimes to do it in.

But if, for whatever reason, a soul does not complete all the work it needs to in one lifetime, it is given more chances. A reincarnated soul is a spark of an earlier soul that comes back to earth in a new body to complete unfinished business from its previous life.

None of us know how much time we have, but we do know that we don’t have centuries. We don’t have the luxury to start building our ark when we are 500. Better start now.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2013, 09:01:51 PM »
The Chabad website attempts to explain this from the Jewish perspective:

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/1703178/jewish/Why-Did-People-in-the-First-Millennia-Live-for-So-Long.htm

Dear Rabbi,

Can you explain why the lifespans of the early generations were incredibly long? According to Genesis, Adam died at age 930, Noah was almost 500 when he started building the ark (not bad!), and Methuselah lived a world record 969 years. So what happened? Why don’t we live that long anymore?


Answer:

The longevity of our patriarchs raises several questions. What does it feel like to hit 900? When did they have their midlife crisis? Were centenarians getting up to teenage mischief? Did parents tell their children, “Stop acting like a 40-year-old!”?

Whatever the case, the first few generations of humanity lived extremely long lives, and then after Noah’s flood we see a dramatic reduction in average lifespan—people begin to live as long as we do today.

We know that each soul that comes into the world arrives with a set of missions to fulfill. The person housing that soul is given a lifespan that is long enough to complete these missions.

The main difference between the earlier and later generations is that the first generations of humanity had large, “all-encompassing” souls. People in later generations possessed only fragments of those original souls. Those souls were broken up and shared between several individuals.

The earlier generations had big souls and long lifespans, because they had a lot of work to do. In later generations, these big souls were spread out among thousands and millions of individuals, in the form of smaller souls with less work to do, and thus shorter lifetimes to do it in.

But if, for whatever reason, a soul does not complete all the work it needs to in one lifetime, it is given more chances. A reincarnated soul is a spark of an earlier soul that comes back to earth in a new body to complete unfinished business from its previous life.

None of us know how much time we have, but we do know that we don’t have centuries. We don’t have the luxury to start building our ark when we are 500. Better start now.

I heard it was due to the firmament around the world, water that dampened the sun...
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2013, 09:23:57 PM »
I heard it was due to the firmament around the world, water that dampened the sun...
How would dampening the sun shorten life? Also that doesn't counter what he posted... That could just be the means G-d used...
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.