Poll

Is it better for JTF to be "clever" or obvious?

clever
obvious
both
neither
A and B, but not C
C and D, but not A
I am not blood type AB, but blood type O
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Offline Dr. Dan

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Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« on: July 20, 2007, 12:05:00 AM »
I will be asking this question to chaim.

If you recall, we are happier when our enemies are obvious and unhappy when they pose as "moderates" making them clever.

On that same token, wouldn't it be better if we acted like "moderates" in order to be clever?
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Offline Maccabi

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2007, 12:33:26 AM »
I'd say obvious.

When we are obvious and speak plainly, people will know that there is someone else thinking the same thoughts that they are and be encouraged.
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Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2007, 01:00:26 AM »
The thing you have to remember is our Arab enemies were clever only when they spoke to Jews or Westerners, when they spoke to their own people they were always open.

We dont have that option.
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Offline Ehud

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2007, 01:51:05 AM »
It depends on the situation.  Chaim answered a similar question a little while back and he pretty much said that sometimes we need to use the harsh rhetoric and be brutally honest and sometimes we need to tone it down in order for people to accept our ideas.

I don't think that the JTF videos should be toned down.

Sometimes on the forum it's a better idea to be clever when dealing with our enemies or when debating.
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"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

newman

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2007, 01:59:28 AM »
It's better to be straight forward. The public warm to direct honesty after years of spin. We have a good message that we don't need to camoflage. Part of our game is to expose the cultural elite's lies, so if we start pulling swifties we'll look like hypocrites.
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Offline Ehud

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2007, 02:07:01 AM »
Yeah, of course we should always be honest but sometimes the rhetoric can be toned down a bit without sacrificing the actual message.

Like take the expelling of arabs for one.  We should be honest about it but it should be framed in a "clever" way.  If you tell people:

"We need to boot the arabs out and if they don't leave we're going to murder every man woman and child who stays!"

It would be better to say "I supported a generously compensated relocation plan where arab Muslims will be allowed to return to their brothers and sisters in their native homelands.  If they choose not to leave then they will be forcibly removed."

I think JTF should be "clever" while remaining honest in what we stand for.  If there ever comes a situation where one is being so clever that he is concealing the truth and our principles, then he is doing JTF a great disservice.  JTF is a group based on principles and the principles should never be explained in ways that conceal their true nature, but sometimes it is ok to state the principles in a clear and honest way that is more palatable to people.
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"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

newman

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2007, 02:20:08 AM »
I'm with you there. I took "clever" in the Aussie context;ie: disnonest.

I think we call the arab expulsion 'humane resettlement' or humane population transfer don't we?....that, I'm in favour of.

I'm also favour using the term 'minimal defensive measures' for when we completely flatten Aman, Damascus, Beirut and Tehran. :D
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Offline Ehud

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2007, 02:32:20 AM »
Yeah, I agree with that term "minimal defensive measures".  It's actually a very honest one because flattening major Muslim cities is minimal compared to the maximum of what we could do, which would be to unleash chemical, biological and nuclear weapons upon every area on the earth where Muslims reside.
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"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

newman

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2007, 02:37:43 AM »
We'd actually be doing them a favour by flattening their cities. They don't really want cities. They'd rather be humping camels in tents in the desert . They're stone age primitives..........let's send 'em to the bloody stone age!
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Offline Muck DeFuslims

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2007, 04:16:58 AM »
Quote from: Ze'ev Jabotinsky on July 20, 2007, 02:32:20 AM
Yeah, I agree with that term "minimal defensive measures".  It's actually a very honest one because flattening major Muslim cities is minimal compared to the maximum of what we could do, which would be to unleash chemical, biological and nuclear weapons upon every area on the earth where Muslims reside.

I like it. Since Islam mandates eternal jihad against the infidels, whacking mooozies should always be considered a matter of self-defense.

One suggestion I have for flattening moooozie cities is to use older unguided 'dumb' bombs. We should strive to maximize 'collateral' damage, instead of minimizing it.

It's a shame to waste smart bombs on dumb moozies.

TOP 10 MOOOZIE CITIES TO FLATTEN:

1. Mecca
2. Tehran
3. Damascus
4. Baghdad
5. Cairo
6. Karachi
7. Amman
8. Islamabad
9. Paris
10.Dearborne

Please feel free to suggest additions or modifications to this list. 
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Offline Ehud

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2007, 04:32:35 AM »
Quote from: Muck DeFuslims on July 20, 2007, 04:16:58 AM
TOP 10 MOOOZIE CITIES TO FLATTEN:

1. Mecca
2. Tehran
3. Damascus
4. Baghdad
5. Cairo
6. Karachi
7. Amman
8. Islamabad
9. Paris
10.Dearborne

Please feel free to suggest additions or modifications to this list. 

Sure.

Kabul Afghanistan
All of Bahrain-then we can take their oil
Dhaka Bangladesh
Jakarta Indonesia
Tripoli, Libya
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

The list goes on and on and on and on and on. 

We should just let the schvartzas and Muslims take over certain areas in Michigan.  We'll enact certain legislation that will convince Muslims from all over the Midwest and the East coast to come to cities in Michigan.  We'll allow men to have as many wives as they wanted to, there would be free camels and young Muslim boys to hump, rape will be legal, we can allow Holocaust denial in their schools and then enact sharia law over these areas.  All the Muslims would flock there and then one Friday when all of the Muslims are enjoying their Jew and Christian-hating and "hate the west" sermons in their lovely new mosques that we built for them, we'll precision nuke every single last one of 'em.
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"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2007, 05:35:41 AM »
Which Paris?

Paris, Texas, or Paris, Tennessee?

Don't forget Washington, AC/DC!
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Offline RationalThought110

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2007, 06:02:53 AM »
Quote from: dannycookie57 on July 20, 2007, 12:05:00 AM
I will be asking this question to chaim.

If you recall, we are happier when our enemies are obvious and unhappy when they pose as "moderates" making them clever.

On that same token, wouldn't it be better if we acted like "moderates" in order to be clever?


Yes. 

Otherwise, I think many Jews themselves would bash JTF, just like they continue to smear Rabbi Kahane. 
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Offline RationalThought110

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2007, 06:07:07 AM »
Quote from: newman on July 20, 2007, 01:59:28 AM
It's better to be straight forward. The public warm to direct honesty after years of spin. We have a good message that we don't need to camoflage. Part of our game is to expose the cultural elite's lies, so if we start pulling swifties we'll look like hypocrites.

What do you mean by pulling a swifty?  John Kerry was trying to lie about his Vietnam record. 
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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2007, 06:59:25 AM »
Quote from: Ze'ev Jabotinsky on July 20, 2007, 04:32:35 AM
Quote from: Muck DeFuslims on July 20, 2007, 04:16:58 AM
TOP 10 MOOOZIE CITIES TO FLATTEN:

1. Mecca
2. Tehran
3. Damascus
4. Baghdad
5. Cairo
6. Karachi
7. Amman
8. Islamabad
9. Paris
10.Dearborne

Please feel free to suggest additions or modifications to this list. 

Sure.

Kabul Afghanistan
All of Bahrain-then we can take their oil
Dhaka Bangladesh
Jakarta Indonesia
Tripoli, Libya
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

The list goes on and on and on and on and on. 

We should just let the schvartzas and Muslims take over certain areas in Michigan.  We'll enact certain legislation that will convince Muslims from all over the Midwest and the East coast to come to cities in Michigan.  We'll allow men to have as many wives as they wanted to, there would be free camels and young Muslim boys to hump, rape will be legal, we can allow Holocaust denial in their schools and then enact sharia law over these areas.  All the Muslims would flock there and then one Friday when all of the Muslims are enjoying their Jew and Christian-hating and "hate the west" sermons in their lovely new mosques that we built for them, we'll precision nuke every single last one of 'em.


don't forget Dubai
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If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Shlomo

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2007, 02:08:18 PM »
It's best if we are straight forward (as we are now) and clever at the same time.

I hope you don't mind, dannycookie57... I have added "both" as a poll option.
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Offline Sarah

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2007, 04:25:28 PM »
That is an interesting question.

JTF can never be one or the other, because there are many members with differing views. There are some issues that require one method or the other.
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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2007, 05:45:02 PM »
I think lying or being decietful ruins the integrity of the movement.  However, there is a right way and wrong way of promoting a message. In my opinion, it's not good to come off to be like a prostylatizer for this movement.. I know what we do here is exciting and true...but maybe it's best to be subtle and give a little bit at a time to those who are interested...(maybe with some exceptions to the rule)
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If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2007, 08:58:01 PM »
I think we have to be open about our goals or we will just be another one of those wimpy right wing groups who do nothing. If we want to get rid of muzzies we have to be open.
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newman

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Re: Is it better for jtf to be "clever" or obvious?
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2007, 09:11:14 PM »
Quote from: DownwithIslam on July 20, 2007, 08:58:01 PM
I think we have to be open about our goals or we will just be another one of those wimpy right wing groups who do nothing. If we want to get rid of muzzies we have to be open.

The majority of the population of the entire western world is longing for someone to promise to get rid of the muslims. As long as we don't frighten them off by allowing someone to get away with smearing us we'll be in like Flynn.
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