Is it permitted for a man to marry his dead wife's sister?

[Binyamin Yisrael]

That animal Ariel Sharon did so. Does that make his sons from his second wife mamzerim?

[muman613]

That animal Ariel Sharon did so. Does that make his sons from his second wife mamzerim?

My initial reaction is that it is permitted. If the first wife is dead I don't see any reason for this to be forbidden.

Obviously it is forbidden if the mans wife is still alive.

http://www.torah.org/learning/ravfrand/5770/achareimos.html

The Reason The Torah Prohibits Marrying Two Sisters

These divrei Torah were adapted from the hashkafa portion of Rabbi Yissocher Frand's Commuter Chavrusah Tapes on the weekly portion: Tape # 678, Tochacha: Is Ignorance Bliss? Good Shabbos!

Parshas Achrei Mos contains the list of forbidden sexual relationships. Vayikra 18:18 contains the Biblical prohibition for a person to marry his wife's sister. In expressing this prohibition, the Torah uses the word "litzror" [to make a co-wife].

The Ramba"n comments: This verb expresses the reason for this prohibition. Most of the forbidden relations (e.g. -- mother-in-law, daughter-in-law, etc.) were simply forbidden without stating a reason. However, the Torah does state a reason by a sister-in-law, namely that it is inappropriate to make two sisters into co-wives of the same husband. These two women should ideally love one another. Placing them into a situation of rivalry will inevitably cause those who should have been best of friends to have a hostile relationship with one another.

The Ramba"n continues: The Torah does not state this regarding a daughter or mother of one's wife, because they remain forbidden even after his wife's death (unlike the situation with the sisters, where a sister is permitted to marry her brother-in-law if her sister -- his first wife – dies). The Ramba"n distinguishes between the "ervah" of two sisters and that of other relations. Here the Torah did not forbid the marriage because of "ervah" but because of the social harm it would bring to the sibling relationship, which at any rate is subject to rivalry. To avoid aggravating that natural sibling rivalry to intolerable levels, the Torah forbade a man to simultaneously be married to two sisters. The proof that this prohibition is different than all the others (and that it is not because of "ervah" or "she'er basar" [close relationship] but for some other reason) is the very fact that the prohibition expires upon the death of one of the sisters.

We learn two novel ideas from this Ramba"n.

First, we see from the fact that the Torah includes this prohibition in the chapter of forbidden relationships (arayos) that the Torah treats the matter of causing sisters to hate one another with the same severity as it treats the cardinal sin of arayos.

Second, we see how important it is in the eyes of the Torah for children to get along with one another. The Torah bans two sisters from marrying the same person for the simple reason that the Torah does not want siblings to fight with each other. Whether we are ourselves siblings or whether we are parents who have children who are siblings, we all know that this is indeed a very big challenge.

[muman613]

http://www.dailyhalacha.com/m/halacha.aspx?id=2088

The Torah forbids marrying one’s wife’s sister as long as the wife is alive. Even if one divorces his wife, it is forbidden for him to marry his wife’s sister. This applies even to his wife’s half-sister, regardless of whether they share the same father or the same mother. If one’s wife dies, Heaven forbid, then he may marry her sister.

The Shulhan Aruch (Eben Ha’ezer 15), based on the Mishna in Masechet Yebamot (24), discusses the case of a man who hears that his wife passed away, and then marries her sister. Sometime later, he hears that the wife had actually not died at the time when he married her sister, but has since passed on. In such a case, any children born to the second wife while the first wife was alive have the status of Mamzerim, since they were born from a forbidden relationship. Children born after the first wife had died, however, are ordinary Jews and do not have the status of Mamzerim.

This Halacha should remind us of the complexity and severity of the laws regarding Yihus – ascertaining valid lineage before marrying. As in the case described above, marrying hastily before assuring proper Yihus could have disastrous results, to which we may apply the proverb, “Me’uvat Lo Yuchal Litkon” (“A corrupt deed cannot be corrected” – Kohelet 1:15). One must therefore ascertain before marrying that the marriage is permissible.

Summary: It is forbidden to marry one wife’s sister – even after divorcing the wife – unless the wife dies, Heaven forbid.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

What if he divorces his wife and she dies after they get divorced? Could he marry her then?

I thought maybe Omri Sharon was a mamzer. I say this because he had a child out of wedlock. If he was a mamzer, he couldn't have married the mother. When I was at Hebrew University in 2001, Omri Sharon's son had his brit at the Hyatt Hotel in French Hill where a few week later, Rechavam Ze'evi, HY"D was murdered by an Arab Muslim Nazi. So I saw all the security near the hotel which is near Mount Scopus during the brit.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

Summary: It is forbidden to marry one wife’s sister – even after divorcing the wife – unless the wife dies, Heaven forbid.

If one violates this, will their son be a mamzer?

[muman613]

If one violates this, will their son be a mamzer?

According to what I found it appears that if the wife legitimately dies a man is permitted to marry her sister. Otherwise any children born of the relationship are considered Mamzers.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

What if his wife died but they didn't have a Halachic wedding or they were just b/f and g/f?

There are rabbis that rule that a woman who had a Deform wedding but then had a Non-Halachic divorce, can marry another man without a real get and the kids won't be mamzerim. Otherwise we would have a mamzer epidemic with all the Deform weddings that end in Non-Halachic divorces. Deforms don't even have Deform divorces. They just do the civil nonsense.

[ChabadKahanist]

What if his wife died but they didn't have a Halachic wedding or they were just b/f and g/f?

There are rabbis that rule that a woman who had a Deform wedding but then had a Non-Halachic divorce, can marry another man without a real get and the kids won't be mamzerim. Otherwise we would have a mamzer epidemic with all the Deform weddings that end in Non-Halachic divorces. Deforms don't even have Deform divorces. They just do the civil nonsense.

Not only Deformed but CONservative as well are invalid halachically

[Binyamin Yisrael]

Once I heard that any wedding was real but only Orthodox divorces are real. I thought even civil marriages were real. I've even heard people claim that people that lived together would need a real get. If that was the case, we would have a mamzer crisis in this country as much as we have an intermarriage crisis.

On the other hand, there were some stupid teenagers in Israel that pretended to get married. The boy gave the girl a ring and said "Harei At..." and she accepted the ring. When it was found out that they had sex, the rabbis ruled that since the "wedding" was consummated she would require a Halachic divorce in order to be able to marry anyone else later in life.

[Zelhar]

Yes it is permitted. I actually know of such a case other then Ariel Sharon.

[Sveta]

This is also the premise of the "Fill The Void" movie. A man's wife during childbirth. His mother in law (desperate to keep the widower husband in Israel with her grandson) suggest that the widower marry his sister-in-law. She is repelled by the notion but ultimately falls in love with him. And she becomes the stepmother of his nephew. In a way, it worked- as her stepson was her own flesh and blood nephew.
It's just a movie, but I too have heard of these cases. I met a man whose wife died and his second wife was her sister. She was raising her own nieces and nephews as her own children.

Definitely not looked upon in the same contexts as yibum. It's completely optional for a man to marry his dead wife's sister.

[edu]

This hebrew article
http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/tanach/samet2/14-2.htm
says that it is permitted to marry the sister of the wife after the first wife died
and provides an example in the Talmud of Yosef the Cohain in Moed katan 23a who did so.
Binyamin Yisrael added:

That animal Ariel Sharon did so. Does that make his sons from his second wife mamzerim?

The question you have to answer first was Ariel Sharon halachicly Jewish because if he wasn't the children would have the status of all children born through intermarriage.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Edu I heard the same thing from a number of people. I heard Sharon was not halahically Jewish.

 Also a "Mamzer" is not defined as someone born out of wedlock. A Mamzer is someone born from certain forbidden relationships (such a incest, or a married women being with someone not her husband).

[muman613]

Edu I heard the same thing from a number of people. I heard Sharon was not halahically Jewish.

 Also a "Mamzer" is not defined as someone born out of wedlock. A Mamzer is someone born from certain forbidden relationships (such a incest, or a married women being with someone not her husband).

Nobody in this thread suggested Mamzer was anyone other than a person born of a forbidden relationship. Although many commonly mis-represent it as an alternate term for a 'bastard' which means one born out of wedlock.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Nobody in this thread suggested Mamzer was anyone other than a person born of a forbidden relationship. Although many commonly mis-represent it as an alternate term for a 'bastard' which means one born out of wedlock.

 

I thought maybe Omri Sharon was a mamzer. I say this because he had a child out of wedlock.

 

 And Muman their are forbidden relationships that doesn't qualify one a mamzer either. For example  (Fill in Male and Female yourself)-  a Jew with a non-Jew. A Jew with a Jew but before marriage. AND a Jew and a Jew during marriage but at the time of her menstruation and the period when she is Nidda and forbidden for her husband. It if forbidden to be at that time until she goes to Mikwah BUT a child of that relationship is not a Mamzer either.

[Sveta]

  It if forbidden to be at that time until she goes to Mikwah BUT a child of that relationship is not a Mamzer either.

Interestingly, I just finished listening to a lecture and the speaker did mention the children born to a woman who was niddah at the time of conception. How the children born in this manner tend to be rebellious and predisposed to evil.

[Joe Gutfeld]

In the Barbra Stressiand movie Yentl, brought this up in the middle of the film.  The only movie she made that I liked.

[muman613]

 

 And Muman their are forbidden relationships that doesn't qualify one a mamzer either. For example  (Fill in Male and Female yourself)-  a Jew with a non-Jew. A Jew with a Jew but before marriage. AND a Jew and a Jew during marriage but at the time of her menstruation and the period when she is Nidda and forbidden for her husband. It if forbidden to be at that time until she goes to Mikwah BUT a child of that relationship is not a Mamzer either.

I don't quite understand what Binyamin was trying to say in that post. The status of Mamzer is given to the children produced from a forbidden relationship. The man and woman who had the child don't get the status of Mamzerim according to my understanding.

I thought maybe Omri Sharon was a mamzer. I say this because he had a child out of wedlock.

So, Binyamin, what did you mean by saying that Omri would be a mamzer because he had a child out of wedlock? Was this a mistake or am I missing something? Or were you trying to say because Ariel (Omris father) may have had a forbidden relationship that would make Omri a mamzer?

[muman613]

From Aish.com on 'Who is a Mamzer?':

http://www.aish.com/atr/Who_is_a_Mamzer.html

Who is a Mamzer?

My mother has, unfortunately, been through a number of marriages and other living-together arrangements. This has produced a hodge-podge of children from different fathers. I actually was conceived through an affair that my mother had, and she has never revealed the identity of my biological father. To make a long story short, I was speaking with my friend (who wears a kippah) and he said that I should check out that I may be a mamzer. I remember that my grandma would call someone a "mamzer" as a kind of curse. The Internet didn't help much, because I don't know what information is reliable. Can you please help set things straight?

The Aish Rabbi Replies:

A child is a mamzer if he is the result of relations with a Jewish man, that a Jewish woman is forbidden to marry – e.g. the result of incest, or an adulterous affair.

A child that was born to an unmarried woman, is simply considered a child born out of wedlock, and is not a mamzer. However, if the woman was married at the time of conception, then that is adultery and the child is a mamzer.

A woman must be sure to receive a proper Get if she is being divorced, otherwise she is still considered married and subsequent children are considered as mamzers. It should be stressed that a civil divorce does not sever the marriage from the Jewish point of view. Only a Get can create a proper divorce. (see: www.aish.com/jl/l/m/103423494.html)

A Jew who is a mamzer must keep all the commandments just like any other Jew, but he does have severe limitations regarding whom he can marry.

That's the legal aspect. The philosophical aspect raises the question: Why is the mamzer punished for the parents' mistake? The answer is that adultery (or incest, which also produces a mamzer) is one of the most terrible crimes, and the reality is that while people will sometimes hurt themselves, they will think much more carefully about hurting their children. So this is a deterrent factor.

The soul of a mamzer, for reasons unbeknownst to us mortals, must undergo the limitations of being a mamzer for the purpose of fulfilling his mission in the world. The circumstances that each individual finds himself in are directly related to his unique mission. For some it may be a physical handicap; for others, a metaphysical one. The mamzer is not paying for his parents' iniquities, he is being given a specific challenge for his own growth.

I think the key for you at this point is to try to find out what really happened. The question of whether you are a mamzer depends on a number of things:

1) Was your mother born of a Jewish mother?

2) Was she married to a Jew at the time she had relations your father?

4) If she was married to a Jew, was the original wedding ceremony "kosher" in Jewish law?

5) If yes, was she divorced from her first husband according to Jewish law with a "get," or was it a civil divorce?

As you can see, there are many, many details of Jewish law pertaining to this, and anything said in this email cannot be used to determine a practical application in any specific case. A potentially wrong answer could have serious long-term consequences for the people involved.

Bottom line: If you have any questions about your status, or about that of any particular young woman, you need to speak with a reliable authority in Jewish law. If you tell me what city you're located in, I'll be happy to recommend someone you could contact.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Interestingly, I just finished listening to a lecture and the speaker did mention the children born to a woman who was niddah at the time of conception. How the children born in this manner tend to be rebellious and predisposed to evil.

 I heard it too but I wouldn't take it too seriously. These are mainly Kabbalistic/Hassidut and in reality no one is predisposed to anything. Yes a women MUST go to the Mikwah after she is Nidda and cannot be with the man during that period but the real damage is mainly on her and the man (punishment of KARET which is very severe) perhaps nothing to do with the child born of such a relationship.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

Edu I heard the same thing from a number of people. I heard Sharon was not halahically Jewish.

 Also a "Mamzer" is not defined as someone born out of wedlock. A Mamzer is someone born from certain forbidden relationships (such a incest, or a married women being with someone not her husband).

I think you have him confused with Rafael Eitan, whose mother was a Sabbatniki Russian. This is the guy that was swept into the sea at the Ashdod Port. Barry Chamish says it was a murder. He's not to be confused with the traitor Rafi Eitan who was the moser that handed over Pollard. Rafi Eitan was from the Pensioners Party. Rafael Eitan was from Tzomet and was a minister under Netanyahu's first government.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I think you have him confused with Rafael Eitan, whose mother was a Sabbatniki Russian. This is the guy that was swept into the sea at the Ashdod Port. Barry Chamish says it was a murder. He's not to be confused with the traitor Rafi Eitan who was the moser that handed over Pollard. Rafi Eitan was from the Pensioners Party. Rafael Eitan was from Tzomet and was a minister under Netanyahu's first government.

 Different cases and no I know for sure about Sharon and not confused with Eitan.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

I thought maybe Omri Sharon was a mamzer. I say this because he had a child out of wedlock.

I wrote that because I thought if Omri was a mamzer (Because his father married the sister of his first wife.), he couldn't marry a Jewish woman unless she herself was a mamzera. So I thought being the immoral animal that the Sharons are, he just went with a woman without being married (Like UMM HMM people do.).

[Binyamin Yisrael]

So other than yibum, a woman is forbidden from marrying her first husband's brother, right?

Let's say a woman has a son from her husband. After she gave birth, her husband dies. If the widow marries his brother, would kids from such a union be mamzerim?

Also, if she got divorced from her husband, if she marries his brother, would the kids be mamzerim?

[Sveta]

I wrote that because I thought if Omri was a mamzer (Because his father married the sister of his first wife.), he couldn't marry a Jewish woman unless she herself was a mamzera. So I thought being the immoral animal that the Sharons are, he just went with a woman without being married (Like UMM HMM people do.).

If you think about it...if the wedding took place in Israel, the Beis Din would NOT have allowed a marriage that would produce a mamzer. So when Sharon married his dead wife's sister and it was allowed in Israel and recognized under the auspices of the Orthodox religious courts, it would be because it was allowed. Considering the first wife is dead.

As far as your yibbum question. No, a woman who who gave birth to her dead husband's child is forbidden from marrying her brother in law. The entire reason of a yibbum marriage is so that the man's lineage go on. But if the man had already been fruitful, then there is no reason for the marriage to take place and it should not- nor would it be allowed. This is why most communities advocate for the chalitza and completely discourage a yibbum. It is said that "To marry a brother's widow for her beauty was regarded by Abba Saul as equivalent to incest (Yeb. 39b)". To answer your question, Leviticus 18:16 has the prohibition where a man must NOT be with his sister-in-law. It is forbidden and the yibbum is only (technically) supposed to be a matter of duty (which is discouraged because rarely would a man see it as a matter of duty. If there is any attraction and enjoyment of the wife, then there would be a very thin line of incest).

Keep in mind that not every man fits the same requirements for a Yibbum. If the man already had children from another marriage- then his widow is not required to marry her brother in law.
If the dead husband and his brother have different fathers- then the widow would not marry her brother-in-law. If the man or the woman is physically incapable of having children, etc.. etc.. Other type of situations apply.

I would suggest if you want to ask a Rabbi as AskMoses so they can explain it further if you're interested.