Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Is it permitted for a man to marry his dead wife's sister?
Tag-MehirTzedek:
Muman- you know your either slow and hard of reading or your just deceiving yourself and others. No 2 ways about it. Where did I ever say anything against the Talmudh? The Talmudh is not the zohar and the Talmudh doesn't discuss or support the idea of "reincarnation". You want to believe in it, fine it is your problem but don't twist things and claim things that aren't even said or written.
Tag-MehirTzedek:
http://sagavyah.tripod.com/id77.html
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php?topic=63722.0
muman613:
--- Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on July 05, 2013, 04:20:14 PM --- Muman- you know your either slow and hard of reading or your just deceiving yourself and others. No 2 ways about it. Where did I ever say anything against the Talmudh? The Talmudh is not the zohar and the Talmudh doesn't discuss or support the idea of "reincarnation". You want to believe in it, fine it is your problem but don't twist things and claim things that aren't even said or written.
--- End quote ---
Hmmm... It seems you have made this an argument about gilgulim, which is not what I was addressing with the Talmud. I was addressing the concept that people can and are born with certain inclinations.
--- Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on July 05, 2013, 10:17:58 AM ---We don't believe in bad souls vs good souls being born. Every person is born clean.
--- End quote ---
What you said here contradicts clearly several portions (some of which I reproduced above) of the Talmud which discuss how certain souls are affected by actions and thoughts in this world.
The discussion of gilgulim is an entirely different discussion and I believe I have brought the sources for this belief. It is not something which was just made up and people blindly accepted, the sources go back to sources other than the Zohar (you know there are other Kabbalistic sources than Zohar). Nobody has ever said that one must accept these beliefs, as they constituted a part of Torah known as Sod (The deep insight).
I am sure you have heard this explanation of PaRDeS...
http://www.torah.org/learning/perceptions/5764/yisro.html
--- Quote ---In other words, Tosfos is explaining, these four rabbis meditated on one of the Names of G-d to intellectually transcend levels of Torah consciousness, to which the word "Pardes" alludes. Indeed, though the word itself means "orchard" (and is the Hebrew source of the English word "paradise" because the original paradise, Gan Aiden, was an orchard), the four letters are in fact the first letters of four other words: Pshat, Remez, Drush, and Sod.
As it is well known, Torah can be learned on four distinct levels: Pshat, Remez, Drush, and Sod (literally: Simple, Hint, Exegetical, and Mystery). This means that a Torah concept, like reality, has many levels of meaning, from the simple to the most sublime.
In fact, these four levels of learning also correspond to four areas of Torah learning: Mikrah (Chumash), Mishnah, Talmud, and Kabbalah, respectively. Thus, "entering" Pardes is also a process of going from one area of Torah learning to a higher one, from Pshat to Remez, to Drush, and finally to Sod.
Another way of looking at these four levels is as layers, concentric spheres that overlap each other like layers of an onion. Pshat represents the most outer, obvious layer, while Sod represents the most hidden, inner, and essential layer. In fact, Sod, being the most inner layer, is said to be enclothed by Drush, which is enclothed by Remez, all of which are enclothed by the most outer layer, Pshat.
--- End quote ---
Anyway I hope you realize that I am not desiring any conflict with you, just that I ask you to avoid rushing to calling these things 'false belief' or at least state in your "informed" opinion it is not the correct belief. I am willing to work together to bring about the truth in Torah, but bold attacks on an entire portion of Jewish belief (Chassidus) I will protest.
Sveta:
Fair enough, everyone has their own beiefs. I have personally never met an Orthodox rabbi who would say that something in the Zohar is a lie or nonsense. I think Rabbis go through yyears of study and the Zohar is one of the books they have to master. Not to mention the thin line of calling the author of the Zohar a false teacher, who would dare say it?
I happen to believe in the gilgul. Anyways, have a good Shabbos.
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: IsraeliHeart on July 05, 2013, 04:56:42 PM --- Not to mention the thin line of calling the author of the Zohar a false teacher, who would dare say it?
--- End quote ---
For example the Yaabetz (among others). The Hatam Sofer (of who'm "Orthodox Judaism" is said to be from, meaning the same people who claim to be Orthodox trace their "Orthodoxy" to the Hattam Sofer) and others as well.
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