Author Topic: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?  (Read 60790 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rafeli18

  • Full JTFer
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #175 on: July 19, 2013, 03:41:20 PM »
What do you mean the book of Rachel is fictional. Wasn't that David Ha Melech's grandmother?

It's not biblical at all. It merely uses her name to convey a fictional story it seems

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #176 on: July 19, 2013, 05:04:37 PM »
What do you mean the book of Rachel is fictional. Wasn't that David Ha Melech's grandmother?

NO, Ruth was David HaMelechs great grandmother... THE BOOK OF RUTH (not Rachel)...

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16453
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #177 on: July 19, 2013, 05:06:06 PM »
http://www.torah.org/learning/ruth/

Ruth: Its message and significance for our lives.

The book of Ruth has great universal appeal. On the surface, it is the story of a young virtuous maiden who leaves her family and her nation to cast her lot with a people and religion that she has not previously known. Her purity of thought, noble behavior and charming character gain her the role of the progenitor of a royal dynasty. A reader identifies with the risk that she took, is impressed by her dignity and refined bearing, and is drawn to her purity and strength of faith. The book of Ruth leaves one with a sense of optimism, hope, and trust, and a feeling of fulfillment and completion. There is; however, much, much more to the story of Ruth, for it is first and foremost a story of redemption and restoration. It is precisely this element, at times explicitly identified, at other times only dimly surmised, that tugs at our heartstrings and awakens that sense of identification and relevance to our own individual and personal lives, our own struggles with alienation and despair, our own longing and search for restoration. We take Ruth personally because on some level we sense that it is our own story. We also long to transition out of the foreign land to the place of greater purpose and serene trust. We, like Ruth, have traveled away from our Father (in Hebrew Mo Ab). Like her, we long to return to the Land of promise. The book of Ruth teaches us that personal redemption must occur within a family, community, and nation. No man is an island. We are nurtured and shaped by our families, national identities and cultural backgrounds. These are personal limitations but we can approach Him together with others. Ruth became the ancestor of kings because she gave kindness and devotion to others. The way is not out of Moab but into Judea; not by leaving society behind but by joining in, and the means to redemption is kindness. R. Zeirah said: "This scroll contains neither laws of purity or impurity, neither what is permitted or forbidden. Why was it written? To teach the reward of those who deal kindly with others (Yalkut Shimoni Ruth 601)."

Ruth, as we said, is a story of redemption; however, it is a complex story, within which can be discerned three interconnected cycles. The first is the seed of Elimelech returning to his people. He and his sons left his nation but his widow, daughter-in-law and their progeny return. The second circle that is closed is the return of the prodigal daughter of Lot to her rightful position in the family of Abraham. Lot's branch of the family descended into licentiousness and carnality (see Genesis 19). Thus, it separated itself from Abraham's messianic destiny for humanity. Through Ruth and David it now came back to rejoin it. This return, like all returns, was not easy and required struggle. Traces of their Moabite heritage were a stumbling block for David and Solomon. Their task was to wholly purify themselves from the daughters of Lot within. Solomon married many wives and they turned his heart away from Hashem. Moabite lust destroyed the lives of David's other descendants: Adonijah, Amnon, and Absalom. David himself was tested in trials of Michal, Abigail and, of course, Bathsheba. Knowing his background, we can appreciate his ultimate success in overcoming temptation even more.

Another lesson that this book teaches us - redemption requires separation. Ruth kissed Naomi and went with her to her future but Orpah kissed her and turned back to her past. The Sages tell us that that very night she again became Lot's daughter. A hundred men impregnated her and out of that seed came Goliath who faced David upon the fateful field of battle.

We face choices every day of our lives and these choices have consequences. We reclaim and redeem but we also must reject; this is not an easy process and there are many pitfalls. God assists man in this daily struggle but it is largely up to us. No amount of Divine assistance can allow us to escape the duty to face the truth that we already know but the heart reveals not to the mind. Before redemption comes separation of good from evil, of that which must be redeemed from that which must be rejected and abandoned.

The third element is the Messianic redemption for David, which stands at the fulcrum of history. Mystics teach us that the three phonemes of Adam stand for the three stages of human history - A for Adam, D for David and M for Messiah. The redemption of Ruth is thus a parable for the entire panorama of human history and this element is not far from the surface of this book.

The book of Ruth must be approached differently than the book of Jonah that we just merited to have competed. Whereas there are few traditional commentaries on Jonah, we are fortunate to possess a number of Midrashic works on Ruth. Our task, therefore, will be less to innovate than to uncover the profound wisdom of the Sages who spoke in parables and allusions. The fountain of living truth has not ceased and we must draw from it. Our study of Ruth will therefore be an opportunity to learn how to extract from the deep wellsprings of Rabbinic literature. I hope that as I attempt to draw up these deep and living waters, you, dear readers, will come to be impressed by the wisdom and righteousness of the Rabbanim, as much as I repeatedly continue to be.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline rafeli18

  • Full JTFer
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #178 on: July 20, 2013, 01:57:38 AM »
The book of Rachel has a lot on converts. There's one book in particular about orthodox Judaism, lol. My personal favorite.
Is the book you're referring to?http://www.amazon.com/THE-BOOKS-OF-RACHEL-ebook/dp/B004ASN9L0
Just to clarify
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 04:44:00 AM by rafeli18 »

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #179 on: July 20, 2013, 10:22:33 PM »
Is the book you're referring to?http://www.amazon.com/THE-BOOKS-OF-RACHEL-ebook/dp/B004ASN9L0
Just to clarify

No... the tanach lol.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #180 on: July 20, 2013, 10:56:30 PM »
No... the tanach lol.
Rachel is Joseph's and Benjamin's mother.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #181 on: July 21, 2013, 12:52:25 AM »
Rachel is Joseph's and Benjamin's mother.

Ok this is getting a little humorous. Sorry to say...

The 'Book of Rachel' is a piece of fiction, not a part of Tanach. It is true that Rachel is the name of one of Jacobs wives, that is not what 'Book of Rachel' is about (as derived from visiting the site which Rafaeli18 linked to).

The 'Book of Ruth' is a part of the Jewish canon called 'TaNaK' which is a word which stands for the following three parts of the entire Jewish bible.

1) Torah (or Chumash the five books of Moses)
2) Neviim (or Prophets which contain the prophetic writings)
3) Ketuvim (or Writings which contain the other books including Ruth, Esther, Proverbs, Song of Songs, etc.)

Ruth is a book of Tanach, not Rachel...

Are there any questions about this?
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #182 on: July 21, 2013, 12:54:09 AM »
http://www.torah.org/learning/basics/primer/torah/bible.html

The 24 Books of the Hebrew Bible

In their simplest form, the twenty-four books of the Jewish Bible - the Tanach - present a history of the first 3500 years from creation until the building of the second Temple in Jerusalem. The books also relate the history of the Jewish nation from its earliest stage, through the giving of the Law at Mount Sinai, and until the end of the first commonwealth.

But the Tanach is much more than just history. In it one can learn about G-d's plan for the world and of His relationship with mankind, specifically, His chosen nation - the Jews.

Here is where G-d tells us what He wants us to do!

"And now, Israel, what does the Lord your G-d want of you? Only to fear the Lord your G-d, to go in all His ways and to love Him and to serve the Lord your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul. To guard the commandments of G-d and His statutes..." (Deuteronomy 10 12-13)

Presented here is a very short overview of each of the books of Tanach, divided into three main categories: the Chumash, the Prophets and the Writings.

The Five Books of Moses (Chumash)

Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy

The Eight Books of the Prophets (Neviim)

Joshua
Judges
Samuel
Kings
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Ezekial
The Twelve (minor prophets) Trei-Assar

The Eleven Books of the Writings (Kesuvim)

Psalms - Tehilim
Proverbs - Mishlei
Job - Iyov
Song of Songs - Shir HaShirim
Ruth - Rus
Lamentations - Eicha
Ecclesiastes - Koheles
Esther
Daniel - Doniel
Ezra/Nehemia
Chronicles - Divrei Hayamim
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #183 on: July 21, 2013, 12:56:23 AM »
Regarding the Torah's Rachel I bring the following insight:

http://www.inner.org/times/cheshvan/rachel58.htm

Our matriarch, Rachel's day of passing is the 11th of Cheshvan, which has been established as Jewish Mother's Day

Rachel is the spiritual matriarch of the Jewish People who are scattered throughout the world. Rachel personifies the cry for the spiritual and physical return of all Jews. Rachel is she who refuses to be comforted until the ingathering of her children is realized (see Jeremiah 31:14).

Following is a deeper understanding of the symbolism connected with Rachel Imenu, Rachel our matriarch.

For the Jewish People, our matriarch Rachel, Jacob's beloved wife, personifies the innate power of the soul and its conscious devotion to arouse God's mercy to redeem His children from exile and bring them to the promised land. This she does with tears and heartfelt prayer.

In the words of the prophet Jeremiah:

So says God: "A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping; Rachel weeps for her children, she refuses to be comforted, for her children, who is not." So says God: "Keep your voice from weeping, and your eyes from tears; for there is reward for your effort, says God; and they shall return from the land of the enemy. And there is hope for your future, says God, and the children shall return to their border."

We recite this prophecy as the Haftorah of the second day of Rosh HaShanah.

Rosh HaShanah, the "day of remembrance," is the day that Rachel, after having been barren for many years, was remembered by God to bear a son. Thirty years afterwards, on the very day of Rosh HaShanah, her son, Joseph, was released from prison and appointed viceroy of Egypt.

The phrase "for her children, who is not," over whom Rachel cries in the above prophecy, refers to Joseph in particular, the spiritual representative of the exiled tribes of Israel.

In Kabbalah, we learn that the twelve months of the Jewish year possess two heads or "parent"-months: the month of Nissan is the "father" of all the months of the year, whereas the month of Tishrei is the "mother" of all the months of the year. The shofar of Rosh HaShanah symbolizes in Kabbalah the womb of the mother; its blast--the birth of a new (blessed) year.

The numerical value of Rosh HaShanah (רֹאשׁ הַשָׁנָה) is 861 and is the trinagle of 41, the sum of all the integers from 1 to 41. 41 is the gematria of "mother" (אֵם). 861 is also the value of "the Holy Temple" (בֵּית הַמִקְדָשׁ), for the woman, the mother, symbolizes the home and builds for her family a holy sanctuary.

.
.
.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?
« Reply #184 on: July 21, 2013, 01:05:44 AM »
Ok this is getting a little humorous. Sorry to say...

The 'Book of Rachel' is a piece of fiction, not a part of Tanach. It is true that Rachel is the name of one of Jacobs wives, that is not what 'Book of Rachel' is about (as derived from visiting the site which Rafaeli18 linked to).

The 'Book of Ruth' is a part of the Jewish canon called 'TaNaK' which is a word which stands for the following three parts of the entire Jewish bible.

1) Torah (or Chumash the five books of Moses)
2) Neviim (or Prophets which contain the prophetic writings)
3) Ketuvim (or Writings which contain the other books including Ruth, Esther, Proverbs, Song of Songs, etc.)

Ruth is a book of Tanach, not Rachel...

Are there any questions about this?

Ruth... Ruth... need some R & R myself, it seems.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge