Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?

[muman613]

Rafeli18,

I am quite active on the forum. I have been involved since 2008 and have been online virtually every day except for Shabbat and Yom Tovim (Holidays) so feel free to drop me a PM or a question in the forum. As I said previously, I sincerely hope that I can help Jews and Noachides and those seeking to learn for conversion purposes. I try to reply as soon as I realize there is a question, and on occasions when I can't answer myself I will ask my Rabbi for his opinion on the topic.

But I think there are also several others here who can help you also. So let us move forward on this journey. As LKZ pointed out being Jewish is both a blessing and a curse, keeping commandments may just necessitate your separating from some of the activities you involved yourself with prior to conversion.

[rafeli18]

Rafeli18,

I am quite active on the forum. I have been involved since 2008 and have been online virtually every day except for Shabbat and Yom Tovim (Holidays) so feel free to drop me a PM or a question in the forum. As I said previously, I sincerely hope that I can help Jews and Noachides and those seeking to learn for conversion purposes. I try to reply as soon as I realize there is a question, and on occasions when I can't answer myself I will ask my Rabbi for his opinion on the topic.

But I think there are also several others here who can help you also. So let us move forward on this journey. As LKZ pointed out being Jewish is both a blessing and a curse, keeping commandments may just necessitate your separating from some of the activities you involved yourself with prior to conversion.

I'm really appreciative of all your help that you've given me these past 2 days. The links you've given me seem to convey a fountain of knowledge of the religion which I sincerely hope will aid me on this path to spiritual fulfilment. I also can see where you're coming from with regards to being jewish as both a blessing and curse. It would indeed be foolish of me to think that adhering to the 613 commandments laid down by Hashem would be easy which is clearly not the case. To be honest anti-Semitism in London is increasing under the guise of being pro-palestinian and anti zionist and this has led to a rise in attacks towards jews especially by the muslim community.
Given your expertise in the field of conversion have you ever encountered someone my age before and if so did they ever appear before the beth din and pass the criteria become jewish?

[ChabadKahanist]

I'm really appreciative of all your help that you've given me these past 2 days. The links you've given me seem to convey a fountain of knowledge of the religion which I sincerely hope will aid me on this path to spiritual fulfilment. I also can see where you're coming from with regards to being jewish as both a blessing and curse. It would indeed be foolish of me to think that adhering to the 613 commandments laid down by Hashem would be easy which is clearly not the case. To be honest anti-Semitism in London is increasing under the guise of being pro-palestinian and anti zionist and this has led to a rise in attacks towards jews especially by the muslim community.
Given your expertise in the field of conversion have you ever encountered someone my age before and if so did they ever appear before the beth din and pass the criteria become jewish?

Not to disrespect anybody here but IMHO your best bet is to go www.theus.org.uk & find your closest Orthodox synagogue & talk to the local rabbi there about teaching you & sponsoring you to go to the London Beth Din.
Before you go to the Beth Din you will need a sponsoring rabbi & the above website is your best bet as I said.
The above website is the congregational arm of the Beth Din.

[muman613]

I'm really appreciative of all your help that you've given me these past 2 days. The links you've given me seem to convey a fountain of knowledge of the religion which I sincerely hope will aid me on this path to spiritual fulfilment. I also can see where you're coming from with regards to being jewish as both a blessing and curse. It would indeed be foolish of me to think that adhering to the 613 commandments laid down by Hashem would be easy which is clearly not the case. To be honest anti-Semitism in London is increasing under the guise of being pro-palestinian and anti zionist and this has led to a rise in attacks towards jews especially by the muslim community.
Given your expertise in the field of conversion have you ever encountered someone my age before and if so did they ever appear before the beth din and pass the criteria become jewish?

I am not an expert in the field of conversion, just am familiar with helping people in my community who have sought this option. I agree that the best course of action for you is to get in contact with an Orthodox Rabbi, while I recommend Chabad for just about everything, any valid Orthodox Rabbi should be able to provide you with the actual resources required.

Conversion to Judaism is not a thing which I think can be done with Online courses alone. Judaism is a communal religion where you must be involved with your community in order to be counted among the Jewish people. This requires you to invest time on Shabbat to learning with your community, taking part in the Sabbath services and Torah reading. Most good Orthodox Rabbi's do a thing called Kiruv (outreach) where they will bring people into their homes on Sabbath in order to provide an environment conducive to Jewish spiritual and intellectual growth.

When I first returned to Judaism I hooked up with a nearby 'progressive liberal' synagogue. But I quickly realized that it was not fulfilling to me to practice a man-made religion (reform) which so obviously did not come from the Torah. Luckily for me there was an Orthodox Rabbi who would come to that shul on occasions and invite members to come to his Shabbatons at his home. He also was the Campus Rabbi for a local college and I got quite involved with that schools Jewish life. Eventually that Rabbi moved away and a Chabad Rabbi took his position, and thus I got more involved with Chabad.

Find yourself a real Rabbi with whom you feel comfortable. We can help you with questions here, but nothing can compare to having a real Rabbi (especially when you really want to convert).

[muman613]

Kiruv more specifically relates to a Jew reaching out to another Jew, but Chabad should be able to help non-Jews who want to be a part of the Jewish people.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/676588/jewish/What-is-Kiruv.htm
What is "Kiruv"?
By Baruch S. Davidson

Kiruv is a Hebrew word that means "bringing close," and can mean any form of bringing someone or something close—physically, emotionally, or spiritually. With regards to other people, kiruv is the fulfillment of the biblical obligation to "Love your fellow as yourself."

The term is commonly used in reference to Jewish outreach, which is aimed at bringing other Jews closer to G‑d and their Jewish heritage. Out of love for your friends, you share with them the beauty of the Torah and its precepts, knowledge that you are lucky enough to be privy to.

Although encouraging fellow Jews to strengthen their commitment to Judaism has always been a Jewish value, this concept has reached new dimensions in the last sixty years, and has become what is referred to by many as the "Kiruv Movement."

The upheaval created by two world wars, and specifically the destruction of the religious Eastern European Jewish communities, left a societal split in the Jewish community, with a historically unparalleled trend leaving many Jews estranged to the teaching and traditions of their ancestors. Sensing that this was the call of the hour, the sixth Rebbe of Chabad-Lubavitch, Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak Schneersohn (1880-1950), started the idea of organized Jewish outreach. Disregarding both the counsel of well-intentioned friends as well as the ridicule of antagonists, he encouraged his followers, young and old, to dedicate their lives to reversing the erosion of Torah life in the Jewish community.

This idea was cultivated by Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak's son-in-law and successor, Rabbi Menachem M. Schneerson of Lubavitch. Teaching that no Jew is "secular," and that the Torah is the birthright of every Jewish soul, the Rebbe, through his shluchim, or emissaries, founded educational centers for Jews of all ages, and brought mitzvot to the streets and to the homes of Jews of all backgrounds and affiliations. Currently, there are more than 3000 Chabad Centers around the world, all devoted to advancing this goal.

With the passage of years, this approach was, thank G‑d, adopted by many segments of the Jewish community, and the outreach attitude has now become all but universal.

To conclude, R. Aizik Homiler, a venerated chassid of the first three Chabad-Lubavitch Rebbes, would relate an oft-repeated adage he had heard from older chassidim:

Have affection for a fellow Jew and G‑d will have affection for you.

Do a kindness for a fellow Jew and G‑d will do a kindness for you.

Befriend a fellow Jew and G‑d will befriend you.1

Best wishes,

Rabbi Baruch S. Davidson

FOOTNOTES
1.   
Hayom Yom, 27th of Cheshvan.

[ChabadKahanist]

I am not an expert in the field of conversion, just am familiar with helping people in my community who have sought this option. I agree that the best course of action for you is to get in contact with an Orthodox Rabbi, while I recommend Chabad for just about everything, any valid Orthodox Rabbi should be able to provide you with the actual resources required.

Conversion to Judaism is not a thing which I think can be done with Online courses alone. Judaism is a communal religion where you must be involved with your community in order to be counted among the Jewish people. This requires you to invest time on Shabbat to learning with your community, taking part in the Sabbath services and Torah reading. Most good Orthodox Rabbi's do a thing called Kiruv (outreach) where they will bring people into their homes on Sabbath in order to provide an environment conducive to Jewish spiritual and intellectual growth.

When I first returned to Judaism I hooked up with a nearby 'progressive liberal' synagogue. But I quickly realized that it was not fulfilling to me to practice a man-made religion (reform) which so obviously did not come from the Torah. Luckily for me there was an Orthodox Rabbi who would come to that shul on occasions and invite members to come to his Shabbatons at his home. He also was the Campus Rabbi for a local college and I got quite involved with that schools Jewish life. Eventually that Rabbi moved away and a Chabad Rabbi took his position, and thus I got more involved with Chabad.

Find yourself a real Rabbi with whom you feel comfortable. We can help you with questions here, but nothing can compare to having a real Rabbi (especially when you really want to convert).

This is why I told him to go the United Synagogue www.theus.org.uk (No relation to United Synagogue in the US,the UK United synagogue is Orthodox & includes many Chabad rabbis & is exclusively Orthodox).
United Synagogue in the UK is the synagogue arm of the London Beth Din under the auspecies of the Chief Rabbi & is strictly Orthodox & recognized worldwide including the Israeli rabbanut.

[Israel Chai]

You provided me with the wisdom to help immeasurably change my life for the better. You deserve more than words, and I am forever in your debt.

Shalom LKZ,

I feel honored for your compliment. I hope I can help everyone find a way to get close to Hashem, because the world is a better place when we know him and through this, we know ourselves and each other.

I have an 'Ask muman613' thread in the 'Ask Posters' forum where people, from time to time, ask me questions about Jewish beliefs. I always try my best to provide an answer based on sources which I find and provide links to additional material supporting my explanation. If anyone has any question which you think I could answer then go ahead and post the question in my thread.

Regarding Jewish prayer. The first and foremost 'central' prayer to Judaism is called the Shema prayer. This prayer is central to several Jewish commandments including the commandments of Mezuzah, Tefillin, and Tzit-Tzits. It is these portions which are written on parchment which is inserted in the mezzuzah (case with scroll attached to door-post) and also inserted into the boxes of Tefillin (Phalactyries) and the Tzit-Tzits are the ritual fringes we wear on our four-cornered garment.

The Shema prayer asserts the ABSOLUTE ONENESS of Hashem, the Master of the Universe, and affirms our connection with him.

The first sentence reads:


SHEMA YISRAEL HASHEM ELOKAINU, HASHEM ECHAD!
HEAR, O ISRAEL, THE LORD IS OUR G-D, THE LORD IS ONE!

COMMENTARY:
(of course when I write the word HASHEM we actually say the word A-D-O-N-A-I (which is also not actually the pronunciation of the 'name' but means 'Our Master/Lord') The real name is called the Tetragrammaton (four letter name) which we call Yud-Kay-Vav-Kay (again I use the letter Kay, which should be read Hey). Jews do not openly use the name of Hashem as we lost the actual pronunciation after the Temple was destroyed, and as a means of preventing 'erasing of the name' which the Torah forbids. If someone should print this page and burn it, if the actual name was contained it could be considered 'CHILLUL HASHEM' or desecration of the name.

The next paragraph discusses the commandments of Tefillin and Mezuzah, and also establishes the system of reward and punishment... Here is the transliteration from Chabad


V'a-hav-ta eit A-do-nai E-lo-he-cha,
B'chawl l'va-v'cha,
u-v'chawl naf-sh'cha,
u-v'chawl m'o-de-cha.
V'ha-yu ha-d'va-rim ha-ei-leh,
A-sher a-no-chi m'tsa-v'cha ha-yom, al l'va-ve-cha.
V'shi-nan-tam l'-va-ne-cha, v'di-bar-ta bam
b'shiv-t'cha b'vei-te-cha,
uv-lech-t'cha va-de-rech,
u-v'shawch-b'cha uv-ku-me-cha.
Uk-shar-tam l'ot al ya-de-cha,
v'ha-yu l'to-ta-fot bein ei-ne-cha.
Uch-tav-tam, al m'zu-zot bei-te-cha, u-vish-a-re-cha.

You shall love the L-rd your G-d with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might. And these words which I command you today shall be upon your heart. You shall teach them thoroughly to your children, and you shall speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road, when you lie down and when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be for a reminder between your eyes. And you shall write them upon the doorposts of your house and upon your gates.

Second Paragraph:

V'ha-ya, im sha-mo-a tish-m'u el mits-vo-tai
a-sher a-no-chi m'tsa-veh et-chem ha-yom
l'a-ha-va et A-do-nai E-lo-hei-chem
ul-awv-do b'chawl l'vav-chem, u-v'chawl naf-sh'chem,
V'na-ta-ti m'tar ar-ts'chem b'i-to, yo-reh u-mal-kosh,
v'a-saf-ta d'ga-ne-cha,
v'ti-ro-sh'cha v'yits-ha-re-cha.
V'na-ta-ti ei-sev b'sa-d'cha liv-hem-te-cha,
v'a-chal-ta v'sa-va-'ta.
Hi-sha-m'ru la-chem pen yif-te l'vav-chem, v'sar-tem,
va-a-vad-tem E-lo-him a-chei-rim, v'hish-ta-cha-vi-tem la-hem.
V'cha-rah af A-do-nai ba-chem, v'a-tsar et ha-sha-ma-yim,
v'lo yi-h'yeh ma-tar, v'ha-a-da-ma lo ti-tein et y'vu-la,
va-a-vad-tem m'hei-ra mei-al ha-a-rets ha-to-va
a-sher A-do-nai no-tein la-chem.
V'sam-tem et d'vara ei-leh, al l'vav-chem v'al naf-sh'chem,
uk-shar-tem o-tam l'ot al yed-chem,
v'ha-yu l'to-ta-fot bein ei-nei-chem.
V'li-mad-tem o-tam et b'nei-chem, l'da-beir bam
b'shiv-t'cha b'vei-te-cha, uv-lech-t'cha va-de-rech
u-v'shawch-b'cha uv-ku-me-cha.
Uch-tav-tam, al m'zu-zot bei-te-cha, u-vish-a-re-cha.
L'ma-an yir-bu y'mei-chem, vi-mei v'nei-chem, al ha-a-da-ma
a-sher nish-ba A-do-nai la-a-vo-tei-chem, la-teit la-hem
ki-mei ha-sha-ma-yim al ha-a-rets.
And it will be, if you will diligently obey My commandments which I enjoin upon you this day, to love the L-rd your G-d and to serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul, I will give rain for your land at the proper time, the early rain and the late rain, and you will gather in your grain, your wine and your oil. And I will give grass in your fields for your cattle, and you will eat and be sated. Take care lest your heart be lured away, and you turn astray and worship alien gods and bow down to them. For then the L-rd's wrath will flare up against you, and He will close the heavens so that there will be no rain and the earth will not yield its produce, and you will swiftly perish from the good land which the L-rd gives you. Therefore, place these words of Mine upon your heart and upon your soul, and bind them for a sign on your hand, and they shall be for a reminder between your eyes. You shall teach them to your children, to speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road, when you lie down and when you rise. And you shall inscribe them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates - so that your days and the days of your children may be prolonged on the land which the L-rd swore to your fathers to give to them for as long as the heavens are above the earth.

Third Paragraph:

Va-yo-meir A-do-nai el Mo-she lei-mor:
Da-beir el b'nei Yis-ra-eil, v'a-mar-ta a-lei-hem
v'a-su la-hem tsi-tsit, al kan-fei vig-dei-hem l'do-ro-tam,
v'na-t'nu al tsi-tsit ha-ka-naf p'til t'chei-let.
V'ha-ya la-chem l'tsi-tsit, ur-i-tem o-to
uz-char-tem et kawl mits-vot A-do-nai, va-a-si-tem o-tam,
v'lo ta-tu-ru a-cha-rei l'vav-chem,
v'a-cha-rei ei-nei-chem
a-sher a-tem zo-nim a-cha-rei-hem,
L'ma-an tiz-k'ru, va-a-si-tem et kawl mits-vo-tai
vi-h'yi-tem k'do-shim lei-lo-hei-chem.
A-ni A-do-nai E-lo-hei-chem,
a-sher ho-tsei-ti et-chem mei-e-rets Mits-ra-yim
li-h'yot la-chem lei-lo-him;
A-ni A-do-nai E-lo-hei-chem… Emet
The L-rd spoke to Moses, saying: Speak to the children of Israel and tell them to make for themselves fringes on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to attach a thread of blue on the fringe of each corner. They shall be to you as tzizit, and you shall look upon them and remember all the commandments of the L-rd and fulfill them, and you will not follow after your heart and after your eyes by which you go astray - so that you may remember and fulfill all My commandments and be holy to your G-d. I am the L-rd your G-d who brought you out of the land of Egypt to be your G-d; I, the L-rd, am your G-d. True.



http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/706163/jewish/In-Hebrew.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/706162/jewish/Translation.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/282822/jewish/Transliteration.htm

[rafeli18]

This is why I told him to go the United Synagogue www.theus.org.uk (No relation to United Synagogue in the US,the UK United synagogue is Orthodox & includes many Chabad rabbis & is exclusively Orthodox).
United Synagogue in the UK is the synagogue arm of the London Beth Din under the auspecies of the Chief Rabbi & is strictly Orthodox & recognized worldwide including the Israeli rabbanut.

I've read their page on the conversion process which goes into great detail about the varying stages before the beth din. Without rushing into things I will eventually contact my nearest shul provided I feel this is the right decision to make which I hope it will be. In the mean time I've signed up for various jewish programmes in London. I was thinking about birthright but I have a feeling i'm not eligible

[Israel Chai]

I've read their page on the conversion process which goes into great detail about the varying stages before the beth din. Without rushing into things I will eventually contact my nearest shul provided I feel this is the right decision to make which I hope it will be. In the mean time I've signed up for various jewish programmes in London. I was thinking about birthright but I have a feeling i'm not eligible

Pfft birthright lets deform Jews and everyone in. The good thing about the trip is Israel. Nothing can take away from Israel and that proved it to me.

Figure out what's special about Israel, and here's where the spirituality comes in, or you'll just be a tourist in a nice resort.

[rafeli18]

Pfft birthright lets deform Jews and everyone in. The good thing about the trip is Israel. Nothing can take away from Israel and that proved it to me.

Figure out what's special about Israel, and here's where the spirituality comes in, or you'll just be a tourist in a nice resort.

Indeed, even from a superficial perspective Israel is breathtakingly beautiful and one could argue that this in itself induces some form of spirituality in the heart. Would you say visiting Israel is essential in terms of conversion?

[Israel Chai]

Indeed, even from a superficial perspective Israel is breathtakingly beautiful and one could argue that this in itself induces some form of spirituality in the heart. Would you say visiting Israel is essential in terms of conversion?

The beauty gives you peace, which is probably useful in experiencing spirituality. The land itself is rejoicing to see you, and you're filled with pride and feel invincible. It's important to first understand what you're experiencing.

[rafeli18]

The beauty gives you peace, which is probably useful in experiencing spirituality. The land itself is rejoicing to see you, and you're filled with pride and feel invincible. It's important to first understand what you're experiencing.

Indeed, the negev desert for example is breathtaking. It's enough to make you weep with joy even from looking at photos.How often do you visit y'eretz israel ?

[Israel Chai]

Indeed, the negev desert for example is breathtaking. It's enough to make you weep with joy even from looking at photos.How often do you visit y'eretz israel ?

Hopefully, forever soon.

[rafeli18]

Hopefully, forever soon.

This is something the world needs and quickly otherwise evil will flourish.Obama's vile in demanding a pre 1967 retreat. Don't you think?

[rafeli18]

It doesn't take a genius to know Jerusalem is the capital of Judaism and indeed Israel.

[ChabadKahanist]

I've read their page on the conversion process which goes into great detail about the varying stages before the beth din. Without rushing into things I will eventually contact my nearest shul provided I feel this is the right decision to make which I hope it will be. In the mean time I've signed up for various jewish programmes in London. I was thinking about birthright but I have a feeling i'm not eligible

Wise move & currently you are not eligible,however if after you convert & providing you are the right age which I think is up until 21 or 22 you would be.

[rafeli18]

Wise move & currently you are not eligible,however if after you convert & providing you are the right age which I think is up until 21 or 22 you would be.

My father's technically jewish however. Ideally, would it be advisable to go to israel first before making this decision?

[ChabadKahanist]

My father's technically jewish however. Ideally, would it be advisable to go to israel first before making this decision?

First of all you would need proof of that if you were intending to immigrate here,however just to visit anybody can visit here.
If you could prove it it would not help as you can not get married here or be buried in a Jewish cemetary unless your mother is Jewish or you had a proper recognized conversion which is why I suggested go to the United Synagogue & London Beth Din.

[rafeli18]

First of all you would need proof of that if you were intending to immigrate here,however just to visit anybody can visit here.
If you could prove it it would not help as you can not get married here or be buried in a Jewish cemetary unless your mother is Jewish or you had a proper recognized conversion which is why I suggested go to the United Synagogue & London Beth Din.

Oh no sorry I was referring to birthright. What I meant was before making the decision to convert with the beth din would you advise visiting Israel to ascertain the extent of my spiritual connection?

[ChabadKahanist]

Oh no sorry I was referring to birthright. What I meant was before making the decision to convert with the beth din would you advise visiting Israel to ascertain the extent of my spiritual connection?

It may not be a bad idea.

[rafeli18]

Jerusalem would obviously be my first port of call although if B.O. gets his way we'll see

[ChabadKahanist]

Jerusalem would obviously be my first port of call although if B.O. gets his way we'll see

By BO do you mean body odor or Barack Obama?
 
Seriously not to worry Obama will not have has way G-d forbid.
Jerusalem is a good place to start.

[rafeli18]

Body odour is far more tolerable.
I've read about online conversions. Are they recognised as being legitimate?

[rafeli18]

For obvious reasons ?

[muman613]

Dan,

I already have urged him to find a competent Orthodox Rabbi and gave him the save advice you just gave (not that repeating it is bad). I believe that it would be best for Rafeli18 to do this as soon as possible.

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,70460.msg602335.html#msg602335