Author Topic: Kaparot to do or not to do.  (Read 3452 times)

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Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Kaparot to do or not to do.
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2013, 02:10:23 PM »
This is one custom I have never done yet. Although I do it with money...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Kaparot to do or not to do.
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 02:11:47 PM »
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/564,18786/What-is-Kaparot.html

It is customary to perform the rite of Kaparot (symbolic “atonement”) on the day preceding Yom Kippur. Preferably, kaparot should be done in the early pre-dawn hours of the day before Yom Kippur. (If it is not possible to do so then, the rite may be performed earlier).

The custom of kaparot is an ancient one1, and was established as a reminder of the goat that the High Priest recited confession over on behalf of the Jewish People. That goat was sent to Azazel2. However, in order to ensure that the practice does not resemble a sacrifice in any way (since sacrifices are forbidden outside of the Holy Temple), a chicken is used -- since chickens were not offered on the altar.

The rite consists of taking a chicken -- a male takes a rooster and a female takes a hen -- and waving it over one's head three times while the appropriate text (found in the Siddur or Machzor) is recited. The fowl is then slaughtered in accordance with Halachic procedure. The monetary worth of the kaparot is given to the poor, or as is more popular today, the chicken itself is donated to a charitable cause.

We ask G-d that if we were destined to be the recipients of harsh decrees in the new year, may they be transferred to this chicken in the merit of this charity

If a chicken is unavailable, one may substitute other fowl or animals; many people use a Kosher live fish. Some give the actual fowl to the poor. Others perform the entire rite with money, reciting the prescribed verses and giving the money to charity. There is no prescribed dollar amount; the donation should be according to one's financial abilities.

Though the word kaparot means "atonement," one should not think that kaparot itself serves as a source of atonement. Rather, we ask G-d that if we were destined to be the recipients of harsh decrees in the new year, may they be transferred to this chicken in the merit of this charity. Furthermore, (many find the rite of kaparot very disturbing, and that is exactly the point), the mortality of the chicken should remind us of our own mortality and inspire us to correct our past and value our future.

[Even children, who are devoid of sin, do kaparot, since they, too, are sometimes the recipients of harsh heavenly decrees.]

Footnotes

1. The concept is found in the Talmud; see Talmud tractate Shabbat 81b Rashi "Hai Parpisa".
2. See Leviticus 16:8 ff.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Kaparot to do or not to do.
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2013, 04:45:21 PM »
I think it is connected with the Halachot Yomi but in audio. Also talks about which is preferable chicken of $ (Im in the middle of listening) ~ 8 minutes.

http://www.torahanytime.com/listen-legacy-audio/?file=23491
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Kaparot to do or not to do.
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2013, 11:19:59 AM »
Vilna Gaon was against it, right?  Saying it was a practice of the Emorites if I remember correctly.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Kaparot to do or not to do.
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2013, 01:08:41 PM »
Vilna Gaon was against it, right?  Saying it was a practice of the Emorites if I remember correctly.


according to the Vilna Gaon, kaparot would constitute darchei ha'Emori since the ritual had previously been practiced by idol worshippers. R. Karp notes that according to his thesis, one would have to conclude that the Vilna Gaon was opposed to kaparot; a conclusion that he is reluctant to accept.

http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/716149#
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Kaparot to do or not to do.
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2013, 01:54:56 PM »

according to the Vilna Gaon, kaparot would constitute darchei ha'Emori since the ritual had previously been practiced by idol worshippers. R. Karp notes that according to his thesis, one would have to conclude that the Vilna Gaon was opposed to kaparot; a conclusion that he is reluctant to accept.

http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/716149#

The part in bold is the kind of thinking that makes no sense to me.   It's pretty obvious that when he calls a practice a custom of the Emorites and says that idol worshippers used to do it, he is against the practice.  Why else would he say such things?     Why some people are so "reluctant" to accept what is obviously the reality is surprising to me.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Kaparot to do or not to do.
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2013, 05:11:21 PM »
The part in bold is the kind of thinking that makes no sense to me.   It's pretty obvious that when he calls a practice a custom of the Emorites and says that idol worshippers used to do it, he is against the practice.  Why else would he say such things?     Why some people are so "reluctant" to accept what is obviously the reality is surprising to me.


 Probably because the Gra didn't directly write about it (or it seems to me that he didn't). Read the papers their were others who directly said against it including the RambaN and (maybe ironically) the Shulhan Aruch (which many who claim to only follow it do it today as well, some with $ instead though). But on the other hand their were Geonim who mentioned this soo this was an earlier practice soo perhaps not necessarily a problem.
 Conclusion (for now) I don't know.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.