To Rejoice or Not to Rejoice in the downfall of the enemy.

[muman613]

While reading more on a topic I posted in a thread in the General Discussion forum I came across the following article which takes an in-depth look on both sides of the question. Should we, or shouldn't we rejoice in the destruction of the wicked. Mostly I quote from Shmuel HaKatan who, in Pirkie Avot, is said to have always said 'Do not rejoice...' which is a quote from Mishlie (Proverbs). There are other sources in scriptures which contribute to this discussion, and this article explores some of them. It also ties in this idea with the Mabel/Flood of Noach...



http://www.dafyomi.co.il/parsha/7pesach3.htm

TO REJOICE OR NOT TO REJOICE?

"He does not rejoice; he but casues others to rejoice"

(CASE #1) "The shout ('Rinnah' - also meaning 'shout of joy') went out in the camp [after the wicked King Ahab had been killed in battle]" (Melachim I 22:36). Rav Acha bar Chanina said: The verse says, "When the wicked perish there are shouts of joy ('Rinnah')" (Mishlei 11:10). This is the reason why there were shouts of joy when Ahab son of Omri perished.

[The Gemara then asks:] Does Hashem truly rejoice in the downfall of the wicked? Does it not state (Divrei Hayyamim II 20:21), "The singers went out before the front line of fighters [of the army of Yehoshaphat, on their way to war with the Moabite army] saying, `Praise Hashem, for His mercy is forever!' " -- and Rabbi Yonatan (CASE #2) asked, Why are the words "for it is good [in His eyes]" omitted here? (That is, the full text of this familiar verse of praise, as quoted in Tehillim 106:1, ibid. 118:1, ibid 118:29, ibid. 136:1, and Divrei Hayyamim I 16:34, is "Praise Hashem, *for it is good [in His eyes]*, for His mercy is forever." The only instance where the intermediate section of this phrase is omitted is the one at hand. -MK) It is because Hashem is not happy at the downfall of the wicked (such as the Moabite army, that Yehoshaphat was about to conquer and destroy. The phrase, "For it is good [in his eyes]," would have implied that Hashem rejoiced in the demise of the Moabite army, while that was not actually so -Rashi, loc. cit.)

Similarly, Rav Shmuel bar Nachman (CASE #3) said in the name of R. Yonatan, what is the meaning of the verse "They did not approach each other throughout the entire night [of the splitting of the Red Sea]" (Shemot 14:20)? It means that the angels in Heaven wanted to sing praises to Hashem at the time of the splitting of the Red Sea, but Hashem held them back, saying, "The works of My hands [= the Egyptians] are drowning in the sea, and you want to sing praises before Me?!" [We thus have two sources to show that Hashem does *not* rejoice when His creations expire.]

[The answer is that indeed] Hashem does not rejoice at the downfall of the wicked; He does, however, cause *others* to rejoice. [This is why, in CASE #1, the *Jews* rejoiced at the death of Ahab. It was others that were rejoicing, but not Hashem Himself. However, in CASE #2, it was not proper for the singers of Yehoshaphat to mention that Hashem, too, is rejoicing in the enemies' death. Nor was it proper, in CASE #3, for the angels to sing praise to Hashem while our Egyptian tormentors were being drowned.]

(Gemara, Sanhedrin 39b)

II

Explanation and proof of the Talmud's conclusion

The Gemara tells us that Hashem Himself does not rejoice when the wicked are destroyed. However, He does encourage joy on the part of man. Why is that? The words of the Gemara may be explained as follows.

In Yechezkel 18:23 we read, " 'Do I desire the death of the wicked man?' asks Hashem. 'It is the return of the wicked man from his evil ways that I desire, so that he might live!' " Hashem prefers that a person repent, and realize his full potential, rather than having him destroyed due to his sins. Thus, when the time comes to punish the evildoers, it is not an occasion for rejoicing for Him. However, it is appropriate for those who were threatened by the evildoer and now find themselves delivered from harm to rejoice. One is certainly expected to express his thanks before Hashem for His beneficence.

We may add to the words of the Gemara, that even in those very cases (#2, #3) that the Gemara quotes to prove that Hashem does *not* rejoice at the downfall of the evildoers, this dichotomy is evident. Although Yehoshaphat's singers (CASE #2) omitted a few words of praise, they nevertheless *did* sing other praises to Hashem for the victory of which they were assured. Only the phrase "for it is good [in His eyes]," which carries the implication that what has happened is good *in the eyes of Hashem*, was omitted. Similarly, at the splitting of the sea (CASE #3), the Bnai Yisrael, who had just been miraculously saved from certain death at the hands of their Egyptian pursuers, *did* break out into song (Shemot 15). Only the angels on high were reprimanded when they attempted to sing Hashem's praises, for there was no joy *before Hashem* at that time.

III

Sobriety upon the drowning of the Egyptain oppressors?

The Gemara's approach may thus be summed up concisely as follows: Hashem does not rejoice when the wicked are punished, but He does expect the beneficiaries of the wicked person's destruction to rejoice. However, the Maharsha (Berachot 9b, Sanhedrin 39b) quotes a Midrash which seems to contradict this thesis. The Midrash says as follows:

We ought to recite the joyous Hallel prayer (Psalms 113-118, which are recited in the morning prayer on holidays) all seven days of Pesach, just as we do so all seven days of Sukkot. Yet we only recite it on the first day! (The abridged, "half" Hallel that we recite nowadays on the last six days of Pesach and on Rosh Chodesh is only a custom, unlike the Rabinically ordained, mandatory "whole" Hallel recited on "full" festivals.) Why, then, don't we recite Hallel all seven days of Pesach? Because the Egyptians were drowned in the Sea on the seventh day of Pesach, and Hashem said, "Although they were My enemies, I wrote in My Scriptures (Mishlei 24:17), 'Do not rejoice at the downfall of your enemy.' "

(Yalkut Shimoni, Mishlei, end of 2:960; Pesikta deRav Kahana, end of #29. [See also Erchin 10a, where the Gemara gives an entirely different reason for not saying Hallel on the last six days of Pesach.])

According to this Midrash, even we Jews, who were saved from the hands of the Egyptians, should refrain from showing joy (by reciting Hallel) at the downfall of the Egyptians! How, asks the Maharsha, can this be reconciled with the assertion of the Gemara quoted above, that Hashem *does* expect others to rejoice when the wicked are destroyed? The Maharsha leaves this problem unanswered in Berachot, while in Sanhedrin he proposes two possible solutions, both of which are very difficult to reconcile with the words of the Midrash itself. (See also Tzlach, to Berachot 10a and 51b, who suggests some rather forced solutions for this problem.)

We may add that there is an even more obvious problem with this Midrash. If it is considered inappropriate for the Jews to praise Hashem for vanquishing the Egyptians, then why did they sing the Az Yashir song (Shemot 15) upon that occasion? Furthermore, how is it that we recite this same song of praise as part of our daily liturgy -- even on Pesach -- to this very day?

We may suggest a very simple, original answer to these problems, as follows. There is a basic difference between the song of Az Yashir and that of Hallel. In Hallel, we repeatedly recite (three times, or, according to Ashkenazic custom, six times when recited with a congregation), the verse "Praise Hashem, for it is good [in His eyes], for His mercy is forever." The phrase "for it is good" is precisely the expression that the singers of Yehoshaphat found it necessary to omit, as explained above (CASE #2). It is these words which imply that Hashem is pleased with what has occurred. If so, perhaps the Midrash means that specifically the praise of *Hallel*, with its implication of Divine pleasure, is an inappropriate form of thanksgiving on this occasion. Az Yashir, however, which contains no such implication, is an entirely appropriate expression of praise on this occasion! The Midrash that the Maharsha quotes is now identical to CASE #3.

(This approach is in fact apparent in the very words of the above Midrash. The Midrash says, "... though they were *My* enemies I wrote... 'Do not rejoice at the downfall of your enemy.' " The Midrash stresses that the Egyptians were the enemies of *Hashem*, and that *Hashem* wanted to refrain from joy because of the cited verse in Mishlei.)

Our former conclusion, thus still remains valid. Hashem does not rejoice when the wicked are punished, but He does expect the beneficiaries of the wicked person's destruction to rejoice.

IV

Timely and untimely deaths

Upon further examination, however, we find other Midrashim which seem to suggest that there is joy *even before Hashem Himself* upon the destruction of sinners.

There is joy before Hashem when the wicked perish, as it says "When the wicked perish there are shouts of joy" (Mishlei 11:10). And it says further, "May sinners be terminated from the world and wicked people cease to exist; praise Hashem, O my soul!" (Psalms 104:35).

(Bamidbar Rabba 3:4).

There is joy before Hashem when the kingdom of the evildoers is uprooted from the world.... There is joy before Hashem when the wicked are removed from the world [such as when the following people perished: King Herod, the generation that served the Golden Calf, Yoav ben Tzeruyah; Avshalom son of King David].

(Megillat Ta'anit, Chs. 3,9)

(Our question from Megillat Ta'anit Ch. 3 is also raised by the commentary Tosafot Chadashim loc. cit., who leaves his question unanswered. See also Agra L'yesharim, by HaGaon Rav Chaim Zimmerman, Ch. 20.)

Further research reveals that these difficulties are actually dealt with by a very early source -- the Midrash HaZohar. The Zohar tells us the following:

There is no joy before Hashem which compares to the joy that exists when the wicked are destroyed, as it says "When the wicked perish there are shouts for joy." You may ask, have we not learned the opposite -- that there is no joy before Hashem when he punishes the wicked!

The answer to this question is that either joy or sadness may be appropriate, depending on the circumstances. When Hashem punishes the wicked after their "measure is full" (i.e. when they have been given every last opportunity to repent, and rejected them all -MK), He rejoices in their demise. But when He punishes them before their "limit" has been reached... instead of rejoicing, there is sorrow before Him.

You may ask, why would Hashem destroy people before their time has come? The answer is that sometimes the wicked bring upon themselves a premature end.... When the evildoers pose an immediate threat to the Jewish nation, Hashem finds it necessary to destroy them without delay. When this happens, Hashem is not pleased with the premature destruction of the wicked. Such was indeed the case when the Egyptians were drowned in the Red Sea (CASE #3), and when Yehoshaphat's armies conquered the forces of Moab (CASE #2).

(Zohar, Noach 61b; see also Shelah, Parashat Beshalach)

According to the Zohar, then, the general rule is that Hashem *is* happy to eliminate the evildoers. It is only when circumstances dictate that the wicked be removed from the world "ahead of schedule" that there is sorrow, rather than joy, before Him. This only occurs when the Bnai Yisrael are faced with immediate danger, and Hashem saves them from imminent death at the expense of the enemy. Such was the case when the Egyptians were drowned in the Red Sea, and when the armies of Moab were destroyed by the Yehoshaphat's fighters.

The reason for this dichotomy is clear. As we have explained before (section II), Hashem would rather see the evildoer mend his ways, than have him destroyed. This is why Hashem allows a person plenty of time to repent, even after the person sins. However, even this merciful reprieve has its limits. A person's time to be taken from this world eventually arrives. At that point, the demise of the sinner is beneficial for both the sinner himself (who will no longer be able to sin), and the world at large (which will no longer be able to learn from the evil ways of the sinner) -- Mishnah, Sanhedrin 71b. The destruction of the wicked sanctifies the Holy Name of Hashem. When the time for the destruction of the wicked has come, there *is* joy before Hashem.

Combining the Zohar and the Gemara, we may now summarize as follows: The beneficiary of Hashem's grace should always rejoice when the forces of evil that had threatened him are destroyed. Hashem Himself also rejoices when the wicked are eliminated. However, when they are eliminated before their due time, He does not rejoice.

V

Punishment of the Jewish nation

However, one Midrash seems to contradict the Zohar's rule of thumb. In the continuation of the Midrash quoted above from Yalkut Shimoni 2:960, we are told that Hashem instructed Noach to refrain from marital relations while he was sheltered in the ark because of the verse: "Do not rejoice at the downfall of your enemy." Hashem instructed Noach to show sensitivity to the plight of the wicked people of his generation by abstaining from marital relations while the evildoers were being annihilated. We know that the people of Noach's generation were given a reprieve of 120 years (Bereishit 6:3), during which they could still improve their ways. Since their downfall came at the end of this specified period, it could in no way be considered to have been brought about "ahead of schedule." Why, then, was this not a period of joy before Hashem? Why was Noach warned to display signs of mourning upon the demise of the sinners of his generation?

In another Midrash (Bamidbar Rabba 3:4) we find, in fact, a difference of opinion among Tannaim (sages of the Mishnaic era) on this very point. According to one opinion, Hashem was saddened (as it were) at the annihilation of mankind during the flood, while according to another opinion He rejoiced. The opinion that maintains that Hashem rejoiced at the time of the Great Flood conforms very nicely with the words of the Zohar quoted above (section IV). But how are we to understand the other opinion in the Midrash? Why should Hashem feel "remorse" over the demise of the sinners in the Great Flood?

Let us begin our attempt to resolve this question by first asking another question. In Chapter 28 of Devarim there is a lengthy, detailed description of the curses which would befall the Jewish people if they did not follow the commandments of Hashem. Towards the end of this section (known as the "Tochechah," or The Rebuke) the Torah says, "It will happen that just as Hashem rejoiced when He brought goodness to you and multiplied you, so will Hashem rejoice ('Yasis') over you to destroy you and to annihilate you" (ibid. 28:63). The word for "will rejoice" can be written in two ways -- "Yasus" (see Yeshayah 35:1) or "Yasis." The Gemara in Sanhedrin (39b -- at the end of the selection quoted at the beginning of this essay) points out that the word Yasis is used here rather than Yasus because it has the double-entendre of meaning "to *cause* to rejoice" as well. Thus, the Gemara explains, what the verse is intimating to us is that when Hashem feels that it is necessary to punish us and to bring the Tochechah to reality, He will not do so joyfully. He will *cause others* -- our enemies -- to rejoice, but He will not rejoice Himself, because Hashem does not rejoice at the destruction of the wicked.

Here again, the words of the Gemara do not seem to conform to those of the Zohar. The verses of The Rebuke are clearly discussing a punishment of evildoers that is both well deserved and timely. Why, then, should Hashem not be pleased when this punishment is meted out? According to the Zohar, Hashem is remorseful only when He is "forced" to administer punishment before its time is due!

A more careful look at the Zohar will enable us to resolve this problem. The Zohar, in the selection quoted above, continues its discussion by saying,

"The one exception [to the rule that Hashem rejoices when the wicked are punished after their time had lapsed] is when He destroyed the Holy Temple. When the Jews angered Him and brought about the destruction of the Temple, there was no joy before Hashem."

(Zohar Noach, 61b)

(It is clear from the context of the Zohar that the Zohar is not referring solely to the destruction of the Holy Temple, but to any calamity that befalls the entire Jewish nation -MK) The logic of this exception is obvious. Upon the destruction of the Jewish people or the Holy Temple, the overall effect is inevitably a diminishing of Hashem's glory. The Jewish nation accepted upon itself the mission to bring Hashem's Glory to the attention of all of the inhabitants of the world. Who but the Jews would accomplish this mission? Therefore, the destruction of the Jewish nation cannot be compared to the destruction of wicked individuals or of gentile nations. When Hashem puts the Tochechah into action against the Jewish people, He does not rejoice in its implementation -- even though it may be well deserved.

The words of the Zohar can be corroborated by dozens of statements in various Midrashim and in the Talmud. Hashem is always portrayed as being profoundly saddened on the occasion of the destruction of the Temple and the exile of the Jews from the Land of Israel. (See also Megillah 16a, "Hani Mili B'Yisrael....")

Perhaps, then, this is the explanation of the opinion cited above which asserts that Hashem was saddened by the destruction of mankind during the Great Flood, although this destruction was well deserved by any account. Before the advent of the patriarch Avraham and his descendants (the Jewish people), since there was as yet no "chosen nation," all of humankind was considered as the Jewish people are today. Hence, during the Flood, when all of the inhabitants of the world perished, the people upon whom it was incumbent to advance Hashem's glory in the world had perished. There was a great loss in the potential to sanctify Hashem's Name in this world. As in the case of the destruction of the Jewish people in later times, such a loss, deserved as it may have been, could not be a source of joy for Hashem!

The opposing opinion in the Midrash Bamidbar Rabba, which maintains that Hashem *did* rejoice at the destruction of mankind during the Great Flood, would perhaps disagree with this conclusion. This Tana would argue that only the saintly Avraham and his descendants could be considered potential sanctifiers of Hashem's Name in this world. Therefore, even before Avraham's time only the ancestors of Avraham, and therefore of the Jewish nation, were considered to be the vehicles for the revelation of the Divine Glory in this world. Since Noach (Avraham's grandfather) escaped from the Great Flood unscathed, and the sinners who perished had sinned their "full measure," there was joy before Hashem at the time of the Great Flood!

[Zelhar]

Can you also provide the bottom line of what is the rabbinic opinion ?

[edu]

I dealt at length in a previous discussion, why the angels did not sing Shira during the night time of Yom Suf translated Red or Reed Sea
See http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,68834.0.html for more details.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Can you also provide the bottom line of what is the rabbinic opinion ?

 Didn't read his post here, but bottom line is (from Rav Kahane and others as well brought this down).

 When an individual in a personal enemy- such as 2 Jews get into a fight over a business or something else like that, then it is forbidden to rejoice on his.her downfall AND one should work to break his/her own "ego" if you will and do things to be friends or at least not enemies (for example load one's "enemies" donkeys even before unloaded a friends donkey). That is all about one's personal enemy not having to do with G-D or Am Yisrael,
 BUT when dealing with a Rasha who is a public enemy of G-D or Am Yisrael it is not only not forbidden to rejoice it is a great Misswah to rejoice and do everything one can to bring their downfall. For example Mordechai kicked Haman (if your familiar with the story), Haman tod him isn't it written in your Torah to to rejoice when an enemy falls, Mordechai explained it thus that that is one's personal enemy but you Haman are a Rasha who wants to destroy Am Yisrael and fight against G-D, in me kicking you its a Mitsswah to do soo and rejoice.

[muman613]

Indeed we are to rejoice the destruction of the enemies of the Jewish people.

This is evidenced through the Song at the Sea, the celebration of Chanukah (The victory of the Chasmoneans over the Hellenists), the celebration of Purim (The victory of the Jews over the Persians).

The point is that the reason we are permitted to rejoice these enemies is because they are the enemies of Hashem, and thus this is why they are the enemy of the Jewish people. We celebrate the revelation of the divine providence, and the special relation the Jewish people hold in Hashems world. We should not take personal pleasure in the fact that they suffered, as it would have been better if they had repented and avoided the decree.

I can enjoy the death of the rasha Osama Bin Laden and rejoice in the concept that he died violently before his time, according to the official story. But it would have been better for the world if the evil Bin Laden had been visited by an angel who would have informed him of his misunderstanding of the nature of G-d, and he turned from jihad to being a used car salesman (or whatever).

I do pray for the destruction of the wicked. But I do not take pleasure in the pain and suffering because I have been through pain and suffering for my transgressions, and I hope that other wicked people can find their way to return to Hashems preferred path.

[Zelhar]

What if displaying joy at the fall of a great national enemy might cost us an arm and a leg ? For example when some evil Tzar (or... Stalin) had died in Russia If Jews would have displayed rejoice that would be like inviting a pogrom on themselves.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

What if displaying joy at the fall of a great national enemy might cost us an arm and a leg ? For example when some evil Tzar (or... Stalin) had died in Russia If Jews would have displayed rejoice that would be like inviting a pogrom on themselves.

 Obviously one should be smart and like in many cases Pikuah Nefesh is more important then the rejoicing itself.
   Also in that case it isn't really that complete since then he would be replaced by another one and who knows if the next would be worse or not?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Well is displaying joy over the downfall of the enemy actually one of the 613?  I don't think so and I don't think it's obligatory--I just thought it was something people naturally feel compelled to do as a result of God's deliverance.

 Perhaps it is and the manifestation of it is the Hallel.

[muman613]

Well is displaying joy over the downfall of the enemy actually one of the 613?  I don't think so and I don't think it's obligatory--I just thought it was something people naturally feel compelled to do as a result of God's deliverance.

You are correct. It is not a mitzvah... But the question is raised in the Talmud, in Pirkie Avot, and in the Ketuvim(Writings)...