Rav Ovadia Yosef the spiritual leaders of shas is dead

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

So what about the Tikun Haklali that says "say NA-NACH-NACHMA-NACHMAN MEUMAN" for a good omen or "I hereby attach myself... in particular to the righteous sage, mainstay of the world, our Rabbi Nachmen..."
Should I not be saying that? Someone gave it to me...

The saying or song " Na Nach" is the song of the redemption.  It was supposedly given to Rabbi Yisroel Ber Odesser from Rabbi Nachman. By singing it, it's supposed to bring the redemption...
There is no harm in it! Just don't pray to, and worship idols! Rabbi Nachman was a GREAT RABBI! And could of been Moshiach, an was a Tzadik, but did not fulfill the prophecy. Like many others, but we can pray in the merit of a Tzadik...

[muman613]

There is a Talmudic idea that in every generation there are 36 righteous/Tzadikim men...

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/837699/jewish/Who-Are-the-36-Hidden-Tzadikim.htm


Question:

Who or what are the 36 holy people? I get the gist of such people being alive at one time, but are they still around? What is their purpose? Is it all a mystery?

Response:

Our holy books say that every generation actually has a minimum (there may be more) of 72 holy men, 36 who live in Israel, and 36 who live outside of Israel.

The number 36 corresponds to the 6 days of creation, and the 30 days of an average month. It also corresponds to the 36 candles kindled during Hanukkah.

The primary source for this teaching is in the Talmud, Succah 45b:

"The world never has less than thirty-six righteous men who receive the Divine Presence every day, for it is said, 'Happy are they that wait lo [for Him]' and the numerical value of 'lo' is thirty-six."

In merit of these righteous individuals, our world receives the divine vitality that keeps it going. We do not know for sure, however, the identity of all these extraordinary individuals.

[muman613]

The saying or song " Na Nach" is the song of the redemption.  It was supposedly given to Rabbi Yisroel Ber Odesser from Rabbi Nachman. By singing it, it's supposed to bring the redemption...
There is no harm in it! Just don't pray to, and worship idols! Rabbi Nachman was a GREAT RABBI! And could of been Moshiach, an was a Tzadik, but did not fulfill the prophecy. Like many others, but we can pray in the merit of a Tzadik...

I agree that Rabbi Nachman was a Tzadik, and I understand the Breslevers learning his works and praising his deeds.

[ChabadKahanist]

Ok but the main point in Chassidut in general is the idea of a "Rebbe". Since they are dead (from these groups) how does the Hassidut still function? Well with Breslov some still go to his kever and all, with Chabad the messicists cant get over the fact that he died soo some of them in 770 still pretend to recieve a dollar from him and salute him (no joke) and do similar things.
 I am asking about the sane one's, how and why do they still go by the title of being Chabad for example when they don't have a Rebbe/leader leading them.

The sane ones are operating like Breslov & go to the Kever,they even built a shul adjacent to the kever in Queens.
The yechi yodelers boycott the kever because they think he is still alive & kicking.
That is what shrinks call denial.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Nobody reading this believes that their Rebbe was Moshiach.

How do you know who reads this?   That was a silly statement.    Either way, it's irrelevant.

I have clearly stated that the argument against mesichists is simple. Should we spend weeks arguing about this? 

It is YOU who took issue with people in this thread accusing them of SLANDER because they spoke negatively about messichists.   So for that reason I ask you, do you have a problem with criticism of messichists?   If so, something is seriously wrong.  And if not, then why do you react the way you do, as if someone is attacking you when no one is, and accuse people of things they didn't do or say?

If you have no problem with criticism of messechists, then take back your accusations against the forum members here.   (Or you can redirect your accusation against CK since he really did slander someone (rav Shach). )

[ChabadKahanist]

I don't know what you're reading but the only slander in this thread was against rav shach.  None of the non messichists among any chassidic sects were spoken of negatively.   Do you have a problem with criticism of messichists?

Not at all they should be ostracized.
Unfortunately the rabbonim in Chabad are taking the attitude if you ignore them they will go away,they are wrong they must be shunned IMHO.

[ChabadKahanist]

How do you know who reads this?   That was a silly statement.    Either way, it's irrelevant.

It is YOU who took issue with people in this thread accusing them of SLANDER because they spoke negatively about messichists.   So for that reason I ask you, do you have a problem with criticism of messichists?   If so, something is seriously wrong.  And if not, then why do you react the way you do, as if someone is attacking you when no one is, and accuse people of things they didn't do or say?

If you have no problem with criticism of messechists, then take back your accusations against the forum members here.   (Or you can redirect your accusation against CK since he really did slander someone (rav Shach). )

Yes I did because Shach slandered the Rebbe,Rav Soloveitchik,Rav Steinsaltz & the Gerrer Rebbe & he eventually turned on Rav Ovadia too. The man was a rabid dog who was fill with hate for other Jews.
Having said that I do have problems with some Rav Soloveitchiks students because of their left wing stands,but the Rav himself was a godol & very respected

[muman613]

Round and round....

Kwrbt... This entire thread consists of slander against various Rabbis... The entire messichist thing is irrelevant...

Who here supports messichist beliefs? Why was it even mentioned in a thread about the passing of Rabbi Yosef?

[ChabadKahanist]

Round and round....

Kwrbt... This entire thread consists of slander against various Rabbis... The entire messichist thing is irrelevant...

Who here supports messichist beliefs? Why was it even mentioned in a thread about the passing of Rabbi Yosef?

Good point & let's stick to the topic at hand about the loss of HaRav Ovadia.

[edu]

Since Rabbi Shach's name has been mentioned in this discussion, assuming their information is accurate, there is a Wikipedia article about him
at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elazar_Shach
concerning his views and his history.

Since the Vilna Gaon's name has also been mentioned previously in this discussion, one should be aware that the Chassidim of today behave differently than those faced by the Vilna Gaon (at least some of them) so don't be to quick to come to a conclusion.
Secondly there was a theological argument between the Vilna Gaon (representing the more classical view) and the Chassidic view about the nature of G-d. We are not so aware of this conflict today because one of the Vilna Gaon's chief students Rabbi Chaim of Volozhin in Nefesh Hachaim sided (for the most part) with the Chassidic view of the Baal Hatanya (see in Hebrew, Rabbi Menachem Kasher's Torah Shleima, Miluim to the book of Shmot, siman 15 for more details)

[edu]

One possible difference however, between Rabbi Chaim of Volozhin and some Chassidim is that he says his theoretical views about the nature of G-d should cause no change in halacha, in how we act and serve G-d.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Not at all they should be ostracized.
Unfortunately the rabbonim in Chabad are taking the attitude if you ignore them they will go away,they are wrong they must be shunned IMHO.

Yeah i agree with you on that, my question was for muman.  At this point it's difficult for them practically to effectively shun them because it already grew too big and there are so many.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Yes I did because Shach slandered the Rebbe,Rav Soloveitchik,Rav Steinsaltz & the Gerrer Rebbe & he eventually turned on Rav Ovadia too. The man was a rabid dog who was fill with hate for other Jews.
Having said that I do have problems with some Rav Soloveitchiks students because of their left wing stands,but the Rav himself was a godol & very respected

The point I'm trying to makehere is that two wrongs don't make a right.  Just because he said some nasty things about good people doesn't make him subject to evil speech.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Round and round....

Kwrbt... This entire thread consists of slander against various Rabbis... The entire messichist thing is irrelevant...

Who here supports messichist beliefs? Why was it even mentioned in a thread about the passing of Rabbi Yosef?

Baloney.   This entire thread is definitely NOT slander of good rabbis.  I only saw one get slandered and several people are defending him against the slander.   So how does that fit with your accusation?  It doesn't.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

One possible difference however, between Rabbi Chaim of Volozhin and some Chassidim is that he says his theoretical views about the nature of G-d should cause no change in halacha, in how we act and serve G-d.

Correct.   He "kashered" the baal hatanya/chassidic worldview and then chassidified the Litvish world with the kashered chassidus.  There is no real divide anymore.   I don't know why any time someone on the forum speaks critically regarding a chassid or rebbi, they are accused of being hateful misnaged.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

The saying or song " Na Nach" is the song of the redemption.  It was supposedly given to Rabbi Yisroel Ber Odesser from Rabbi Nachman. By singing it, it's supposed to bring the redemption...
There is no harm in it! Just don't pray to, and worship idols! Rabbi Nachman was a GREAT RABBI! And could of been Moshiach, an was a Tzadik, but did not fulfill the prophecy. Like many others, but we can pray in the merit of a Tzadik...

 Yea right 

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Correct.   He "kashered" the baal hatanya/chassidic worldview and then chassidified the Litvish world with the kashered chassidus.  There is no real divide anymore. 

 Even though the Gra usually get's the credit for stomping out the Hassidim and mysticism in general, he also was somewhat mystically inclined.
 If I had to go back I would probably go to the Yaabess. Today's firm world has a lot of focus on the "spiritual" or Ruhnios instead of the Pshat and dealing with our problems physically.
 
 Ironically though on the other hand the more mystically crazies are the one's on the front lines for the physical. Its a whole kookoo mess (like the messicists who fight for the land of Israel and some Breslovers).
 But anyway this mystical type reliance and all is what's causing a lot of the problems. Some literally are preaching from very passive (on what to do) books like the Zohar (which was written in the exile)  and such and just expecting things to happen.

[muman613]

The slander continues...

The Jewish people are a diverse people. Those who seek to divide us and label anyone who observes the commandments differently are the troublemakers of our people. I see a lot of this from some of the members here, and this saddens me greatly. This one calls that one 'Yeshivish' , that one calls this one 'Litvish' and that one 'crazy'.

I am sure that those who are throwing around these labels are themselves being judged by others for the worse. You who divide the Jewish people are only assisting in the destruction of our people.

The whole Chassidic movement attempts to bring all Jews together so we can accomplish the goals laid out in our Torah. I suspect those who are using these labels are just too young to know what damage they are doing. Judaism is a spiritual religion, the mystical aspects have kept us alive in the long exile.

If you think your 'rational' judaism is going to change the world, go do it. Stop pointing fingers at those who are much more successfull at keeping Jews Jewish than the 'rationalists'.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Yea right 

"Yeah right" what?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

"Yeah right" what?

 Your statements I quoted. Go back and see.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Your statements I quoted. Go back and see.

The whole thing?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I just heard from someone else that (they claim) that Rav Ovadia Yosef REVERSED his ruling on "land for peace"

 now I also found this- "Letter Reveals Rav Ovadia Retracted ‘Land for Peace’ Ruling in 2003"

Read more at: http://www.jewishpress.com/news/letter-reveals-rav-ovadia-reversed-land-for-peace-ruling-in-2003/2013/10/09/2/

[muman613]

I just heard from someone else that (they claim) that Rav Ovadia Yosef REVERSED his ruling on "land for peace"

 now I also found this- "Letter Reveals Rav Ovadia Retracted ‘Land for Peace’ Ruling in 2003"

Read more at: http://www.jewishpress.com/news/letter-reveals-rav-ovadia-reversed-land-for-peace-ruling-in-2003/2013/10/09/2/

I heard this from my Rabbi last Shabbat. I was saying that I had heard that he regretted his original opinion.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The slander continues...

The Jewish people are a diverse people. Those who seek to divide us and label anyone who observes the commandments differently are the troublemakers of our people. I see a lot of this from some of the members here, and this saddens me greatly. This one calls that one 'Yeshivish' , that one calls this one 'Litvish' and that one 'crazy'.

I am sure that those who are throwing around these labels are themselves being judged by others for the worse. You who divide the Jewish people are only assisting in the destruction of our people.

The whole Chassidic movement attempts to bring all Jews together so we can accomplish the goals laid out in our Torah. I suspect those who are using these labels are just too young to know what damage they are doing. Judaism is a spiritual religion, the mystical aspects have kept us alive in the long exile.

If you think your 'rational' judaism is going to change the world, go do it. Stop pointing fingers at those who are much more successfull at keeping Jews Jewish than the 'rationalists'.

Litvish and yeshivish are terms which frum people self identify with.  So there is no slander involved.  Maybe you are just not familiar with this terminology so you think there is insult where there is none.  Your accusations are outrageous and have zero connection to anything I wrote in this thread.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

. I was saying that I had heard that he regretted his original opinion.

heard from where?  Your noggin?