Rav Ovadia Yosef the spiritual leaders of shas is dead

[ChabadKahanist]

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef was niftar a short time ago.

[Kabili]

  very sad day

[mord]

True Baruch Dayan HaEmes

[Dr. Dan]

May his soul realize the wrong decision he made accepting the inception of Oslo accords

May all Torah observant Jews become zealots of kahane's torah

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

He knew a lot about Torah but he also did some evil things. Let us hope his replacement is a true Zionist that rejects land for peace.

[Zelhar]

He knew a lot about Torah but he also did some evil things. Let us hope his replacement is a true Zionist that rejects land for peace.

I just hope there won't be a replacement.

[Kabili]

How dare you guys say evil about the Rav

[Dr. Dan]

How dare you guys say evil about the Rav

What's evil?  Did we curse him?

Aren't we allowed to disagree with some of the decisions this Rav made?

[Rubystars]

How dare you guys say evil about the Rav

I really want to post about this.. but everything I come up with will exist only to serve to make people angry with me. So... I'll just say rest in peace ROY.

[ChabadKahanist]

How dare you guys say evil about the Rav

They are not saying anything evil at all but simply stating the the truth.
FYI,Even though he was a big talmid chochom & a world class posek he made many mistakes such as initially being a puppet of the evil R' Elzazar Shach who said disgusting evil things about both the Lubavitcher,Rebbe,ZT"L,ZYA,HaRav Yosef Ber Soloveitchik,ZT"L,ZY"A & HaRav Adin Steinsaltz,Shlit"a.
The Rebbe & Rav Soloveitchik saved American Jewry in general & Orthodoxy in America in general from extinction(completely assimilating to death),Rav Steinsaltz made gemora accessable to a whole new new generation of Jews.
What did Shach do?
He created generations of welfare cases & draft dodgers as well as alienate thousands of Jews from Judaism by his lack of Ahavat Yisrael & carss manners.
Also because of Rav Ovadia's support of Oslo & giving land for so called "peace" thousands of Jews died & were maimed.
Where is the evil in stating well known facts?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Apparently their are people now criticizing him for being too right-wing. And anti-Arab.


 Anyway here is a good biography of him, his family etc.

 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I think he said right-wing things sometimes to try to get a bigger audience, and to try to get people to forget about his support of Oslo.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,70117.msg599127.html#msg599127

 I posted this earlier and important parts highlighted as well.

[edu]

Rabbi Meir Kahane: Land for Peace - What is the Halacha?

[Every Jew AK47]

Rabbis who believe that Jewish land is for sale to the Muslims are in my opinion even more evil than the Nazis, themselves.

I don't know a lot about this man, except he was known for making a lot of concessions to the Muslims in the name of his special, deep Rabbinical knowledge.  Nothing like using the Talmud/Torah as a way to gain power in politics?  And, just because somebody ha the status of Rav, doesn't mean they cannot be anti-Jewish/anti-Israel.. Has anyone heard of the group named Neturei Karta??   

If someone can enlighten me about this Rabbi, where I may be wrong, I will revoke my sentiments.    What I would like to know is how any Kahanist Jew could mourn a man who supported the destruction of the Jewish state for a peace that will never happen?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Rabbis who believe that Jewish land is for sale to the Muslims are in my opinion even more evil than the Nazis, themselves.

 Not for sale, the difference between Rav Kahane and Rav Ovadia Yosef was 1 underlying principle- that is the Rav Kahane held that land cannot be given over even for (real) peace and Rav Ovadia held that land can be given over for real peace. and saving Jewish lives. It should be in the hands of people who are responsible for the defense of the country to decide (his opinion) That is the difference. Wrong- yes. Evil- No. Different attitude and way of seeing things.

 How do you compare that to the NK (Yimah Shehem) who are just traitors who work to do real harm against Am Yisrael?

[Every Jew AK47]

Not for sale, the difference between Rav Kahane and Rav Ovadia Yosef was 1 underlying principle- that is the Rav Kahane held that land cannot be given over even for (real) peace and Rav Ovadia held that land can be given over for real peace. and saving Jewish lives. It should be in the hands of people who are responsible for the defense of the country to decide (his opinion) That is the difference. Wrong- yes. Evil- No. Different attitude and way of seeing things.

I guess Rav Ovadia Yosef was naive, not evil, then..  In that respect, can we say the rabbis of Neturei Karta are evil, since they also believe that by giving Israel to the Arabs there will be peace and will bring Moshiach?   This now has become a very complicated and confusing subject to me.   

In my opinion, anybody who thinks they can partition the land and give it to the enemies for whatever reason, is warring against Hashem.  To allow Israel to become a land of idolatrous pagans (the Muslims) to me seems evil.  Also, shouldn't we Jews be vigilant in defending the land that Hashem has given to us, rather than begging for mercy and agreeing to make concessions?   

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I don't know a lot about this man, except he was known for making a lot of concessions to the Muslims in the name of his special, deep Rabbinical knowledge.  Nothing like using the Talmud/Torah as a way to gain power in politics? 

 You certainly don't that is why you are speaking like this. His scholarship is unmatched for sure. No one like him now and ever since for a very long time. He knew many many books by heart and wrote encyclopedi's worth of books on Jewish law. Some of his books were literally from Q's and A's from a live show that he did on air on very hard Halahic questions that callers would call in and ask. He would answer and bring statements after statements all by heart and the recordings would then be collected and made into volumes of books. I believe it's his Chazon Ovadia

http://www.seforimcenter.com/prodtype.asp?cookiecheck=yes&PT_ID=418&strPageHistory=cat
 

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I guess Rav Ovadia Yosef was naive, not evil, then..  In that respect, can we say the rabbis of Neturei Karta are evil, since they also believe that by giving Israel to the Arabs there will be peace and will bring Moshiach?   This now has become a very complicated and confusing subject to me.   

In my opinion, anybody who thinks they can partition the land and give it to the enemies for whatever reason, is warring against Hashem.  To allow Israel to become a land of idolatrous pagans (the Muslims) to me seems evil.  Also, shouldn't we Jews be vigilant in defending the land that Hashem has given to us, rather than begging for mercy and agreeing to make concessions?

 He was against the disengagement (from Gazza) . But held that in the prospect of a real (and lasting) peace treaty it would be possible to give up land if in the long run it would save Jewish lives (Pikuah Nefesh), and it should be a decision for the country to make (people in charge of the defense). According to him Pikuah Nefesh is the most important and he quoted the Shulhan Aruch saying that in the case of saving a person's life everything can be violated except 3 things (idolatry, sexual sins and murder). In our opinion he made a critical mistake because the Shulhan Aruch isn't a complete work on Jewish law and it is dealing with the individual and not the nation as a whole.

[Every Jew AK47]

You certainly don't that is why you are speaking like this. His scholarship is unmatched for sure. No one like him now and ever since for a very long time. He knew many many books by heart and wrote encyclopedi's worth of books on Jewish law. Some of his books were literally from Q's and A's from a live show that he did on air on very hard Halahic questions that callers would call in and ask. He would answer and bring statements after statements all by heart and the recordings would then be collected and made into volumes of books. I believe it's his Chazon Ovadia

http://www.seforimcenter.com/prodtype.asp?cookiecheck=yes&PT_ID=418&strPageHistory=cat

With such knowledge maybe he was correct then about partitioning Eretz Yisrael to the Muslimim.

Who am I to argue with a scholar?    I do believe man of his wisdom then can be a greater influence in anything he does.  If he believes in selling off the land of Israel, our holy places, etc that it will save Jewish lives.   Another example could be the well-learned and respect Satmar Rabbi in Hungary, who contributed to the death of 100,000s of Jews in doing what he thought was a way to bring peace to the Jews, that is, obeying Hitler's decrees of going to "labor camps".

There are also many well-learned and scholarly people who come from the Neturei Karta sect..  Once again, should we condemn the people of Neturei Karta, considering they believe by giving Israel to the Arabs we will have peace and save Jewish lives?   If Rav Ovadia is allowed to promote the giving away of Israeli land for peace, since he is well learned and a great Jewish scholar, who are we to condemn any other Jews who promote anti-israel deeds, as long as their long term goal is peace of the Jewish people?

[edu]

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=151215

Deri Targeted in Din Torah Over Oslo Agreement
(Saturday, January 5th, 2013)
Shas co-leader Aryeh Deri has been summoned to appear before a Yerushalayim beis din in a case filed against him stemming from his support of the Oslo Agreement. Deri joins his chareidi MK colleague, MK Moshe Gafne of Yahadut Hatorah, who was targeted in a similar Din Torah last year for his role in permitting the government to expel the Jewish community of Gaza in 2005, Ariel Sharon’s “Disengagement Plan”.

INN reports this suit was filed against Deri by Geula Hershkowitz, whose husband and son were murdered in terror attacks, and she feels this is the result of the Oslo process.

As was the case in the hazmana against Gafne, the case is being heard by the Jerusalem Monetary Beis Din. Hershkowitz explains that Deri played a role in the Oslo Agreement passing in Knesset, and that has led to the death of over 1,500 Israelis as well as over 14,000 people being injured and/or permanently maimed in attacks. She adds there are over 240 widows and more than 2,700 orphans as a result of Oslo.


She is seeking to have the beis din rule that Deri may no longer as a MK.

-
I am hoping (but making no predictions) that Deri will rapidly lose political power, now that he can no longer rely on Rabbi Yosef to protect him, and some minor comfort will come to the widow, Geula Hershkowitz

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

EveryJew- 1) how do you even say
"There are also many well-learned and scholarly people who come from the Neturei Karta sect."

 Are you even serious in that? What makes them scholars? A beard and a black suit? Seriously, name me 1 book of Halacha they even attempted to write?
 
 On the other hand see the many many many books and saying of this Rav and you cannot even be serious.

 You dont have to disrespect him, you can disagree and rely on a different scholar(s) that held otherwise. That is how Rav Kahane said to do.


 "If he believes in selling off the land of Israel, our holy places, etc that it will save Jewish lives"

 not exactly. The first premise is if it will save Jewish lives in the long run and then the second option is given. You might miss it but their is a huge difference.

 Anyway FYI different places are now condemning him for being an "extremist who was against women's rights, homosexual's and Arabs" .

[muman613]

Baruch Dayan HaEmet (Blessed is the True Judge)...

This man was a gadol of the generation and should be respected. He realized the error of giving land for peace (Pikuach Nefesh) and we should not judge him.

[muman613]

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2013/10/for-those-who-dont-yet-know-enough.html#links

By the way, when you find the 'genuine peace,' call me.

In 1979, amid peace negotiations between Israel and Egypt, Rabbi Yosef ruled that pikuach nefesh granted Israel authority to return the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt.

Shas, however, abstained in a vote on the first Oslo agreement with the Palestinians, and voted against the second. Furthermore, as relations between Israel and the Palestinians began to deteriorate, and specifically following the outbreak of the Second Intifada in 2001, Rabbi Yosef and Shas pulled toward the rightwing of the Israeli political spectrum, supporting the Likud. In 2005, Rabbi Yosef condemned the Gaza disengagement plan spearheaded by then-prime minister Ariel Sharon, saying that he was opposed to unilateral action outside the framework of a peace agreement. Yosef instructed the Shas MKs to vote against the plan in the Knesset.

Yosef has also made several controversial comments regarding Israeli politicians as well as world leaders. During Purim 2000, he said that then-education minister Yossi Sarid was cursed as was Haman. In 2005, Yosef commented that Ariel Sharon was “torturing” the people of Israel with his plan to disengage from the Gaza Strip. “Let God strike him down,” Yosef was quoted in a BBC article as saying at the time. However, after Sharon suffered a stroke and fell into a coma, Yosef led prayer services for his recovery, explaining that he was opposed to the disengagement plan and not to Sharon himself.

Following Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans in 2005, Rabi Yosef blamed the natural disaster on then-U.S. President Bush's support of the Gaza disengagement, as well as on the lack of Torah study among Katrina's victims, who suffered “because they have no God.”

Rav Ovadiah was no fool, and he was not afraid to speak his mind.

Labels: Ariel Sharon, Gaza expulsion, George W. Bush, Middle East peace process, Oslo accords, Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

  Also I think one of the crux differences is perhaps (and this is my little theory) is if Israel today is the "Atchalta deGeula" or not. If it is, it makes more sense to say that land for (real) peace is no good. If its not then according to them it is fine and Jewish lives are more important then land that the State controls and only once their is Moshiah etc. will Israel take over all this land and much more as well (Nile to Euphrates), or the land of the 7 nations of Cannan and 3 more as promised in the Torah. But that time isn't now.

 I think Lubavitch also held like that as well (the last one).