Modern Orthodox?

[Sveta]

What is the forum's opinion on "Modern Orthodox"? For the past year, I have been leaning towards Breslov. My ex was Haredi and my first shul experience was with Chabad.

Currently, I have been introduced to a new group of people....and they are MO. I have been attending events and there is mixed seating, mixed singing. Things I had not experienced before and said I would not do.

Now, I feel confused. More so, I feel like I am leaning towards being a more liberal person.

I don't mean any disrespect to anyone on the forum who considers themselves modern orthodox. I have no problem with it, it's just that I had not personally experienced it myself. And I feel kind of out of place but I don't want to act like an "ultra" extremist in front of my new MO friends. And I feel like I am loosing the Breslov interest I had before.

Anyways, I heard some people say things like "MO is a heresy". But what do people in the forum feel about it?

Part of the reason why I stopped posting on the forum is because I wanted to lean towards a stricter type of life and now, I find myself hanging out with MO people.

In short, what is the forum's opinion on MO communities?

[muman613]

Shalom IsraeliHeart,

Recently a Modern Orthodox Rabbi published a heresy which the MO establishment did not reject. He suggested that our Torah was not given to us by Hashem, rather it was written by a group of men over a period of many hundred of years. The suggestion riled many people, myself included. It is an obvious heresy to believe that, as one of the 13 principles of Rambam is that Torah is from Hashem given to Moshe at Sinai.

Otherwise I do listen to some MO rabbis.... I do not think that it is best for us though...

[muman613]

How does one lose interest in Breslov? There is always something new to learn. Virtually all Jews find something valuable from the teachings of Rabbi Nachman.

[Sveta]

I may have worded it wrong. I am not loosing interest in the teachings of Rebbe Nachman at all. I am sorry I said it wrong. But I meant fearing loosing interest in the strict lifestyle when the only people I am meeting are more liberal. So, I meant how can I keep up with a more observant lifestyle if others around me are doing things differently.

[Sveta]

Ok, here is the scenario. I went to shul for Shabbat. And after it was over, we all sat down and ate in the same table, men and women. And women singing louder than men. In the same table.
 I, however, was not singing and was the odd one out for not participating. In a Shabbat dinner, the same thing happened and the host asked that we ALL participate.

Maybe it's silly of me or I have been missing something, but is this normal? I mean, it's ok to do this?

Also, I have been looking for a Breslov community in LA but have been unable to find one at all. It's VERY discouraging. What is there for me if there is no one around? I don't know how I could be Breslov if I don't meet other Breslov women and live in a MO community. I'm just confused.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

I'm Modern Orthodox.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

Shalom IsraeliHeart,

Recently a Modern Orthodox Rabbi published a heresy which the MO establishment did not reject. He suggested that our Torah was not given to us by Hashem, rather it was written by a group of men over a period of many hundred of years. The suggestion riled many people, myself included. It is an obvious heresy to believe that, as one of the 13 principles of Rambam is that Torah is from Hashem given to Moshe at Sinai.

Otherwise I do listen to some MO rabbis.... I do not think that it is best for us though...

That is not a rabbi.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

Ok, here is the scenario. I went to shul for Shabbat. And after it was over, we all sat down and ate in the same table, men and women. And women singing louder than men. In the same table.
 I, however, was not singing and was the odd one out for not participating. In a Shabbat dinner, the same thing happened and the host asked that we ALL participate.

Maybe it's silly of me or I have been missing something, but is this normal? I mean, it's ok to do this?

Also, I have been looking for a Breslov community in LA but have been unable to find one at all. It's VERY discouraging. What is there for me if there is no one around? I don't know how I could be Breslov if I don't meet other Breslov women and live in a MO community. I'm just confused.

It seems that type of community is more conducive to meeting someone to marry. Where I live, men and women don't socizalize together. Usually only when in Israel do men and women talk to each other. This can be for the year in Israel yeshivah student or someone just visiting Israel and being involved in social situations where you can meet men and women the same age as you which don't exist in our communities in the exile. That is part of the growing marriage crisis in American Jewry. Non-religious Jews have the marriage crisis of intermarriage and purposefully delaying marriage until later in life.

For religious Jew, the marriage crisis is not having the opportunity to meet someone to marry because you were not raised religious and there is shiduch available or because in the modern age people are still religious back in the old days but without active shadchanim. So the result is young Jews that want to get married that don't know anyone to marry and are not introduced to anyone. I think the Modern Orthodox way is better. My community is too yeshivish, even with a new Modern Orthodox rabbi, the attitude is still yeshivish in the way men and women act together. Also, there are no single women in my synagogue. Anyone single is usually the daughter or a member and when they grow up they usually go to seminary. Most weddings in my synagogue involve someone meeting someone from Baltimore, Lakewood, Brooklyn, or Monsey. People rarely marry someone from the local area.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Ok, here is the scenario. I went to shul for Shabbat. And after it was over, we all sat down and ate in the same table, men and women. And women singing louder than men. In the same table.
 I, however, was not singing and was the odd one out for not participating. In a Shabbat dinner, the same thing happened and the host asked that we ALL participate.

 Wait what you described the first post and now are totally different. If you prayed separately but ate sitting together it is fine. About the singing not too sure but their could be room for leniency since it was singing as a group and not individually, but anyway a women should act modestly in such a situation and not sing. 


 In general be careful with some "Modern Othodox" as well. Anyone can label themselves as they wish, MO could be a cover up for deform or CONservative's as well.

[muman613]

I agree with what Tag said. The only requirement is for separate davening. As long as you don't touch a person of the opposite gender I don't think there is any problem with 'mixed seating' at the meal. I usually try not to sit next to a married woman if I can, otherwise I just do not shake hands or 'hug' as some do.

See this post for more info on the MO (also called Open Orthodoxy) Rabbi I mentioned @

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,70653.msg603250.html#msg603250

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

What is the forum's opinion on "Modern Orthodox"? For the past year, I have been leaning towards Breslov. My ex was Haredi and my first shul experience was with Chabad.

Currently, I have been introduced to a new group of people....and they are MO. I have been attending events and there is mixed seating, mixed singing. Things I had not experienced before and said I would not do.

Now, I feel confused. More so, I feel like I am leaning towards being a more liberal person.

I don't mean any disrespect to anyone on the forum who considers themselves modern orthodox. I have no problem with it, it's just that I had not personally experienced it myself. And I feel kind of out of place but I don't want to act like an "ultra" extremist in front of my new MO friends. And I feel like I am loosing the Breslov interest I had before.

Anyways, I heard some people say things like "MO is a heresy". But what do people in the forum feel about it?

Part of the reason why I stopped posting on the forum is because I wanted to lean towards a stricter type of life and now, I find myself hanging out with MO people.

In short, what is the forum's opinion on MO communities?

Is there something "strict" religiously about not posting on the forum?   

MO is a mixed bag.   The leftwing are completely nuts.  The "MO Machmir" (right wing modern orthodox) is very religious with good values and just a few cultural differences from the more yeshivish crowd.   I don't (and they don't) see a problem with those cultural differences (usually things like "mixed seating" etc) because they are not halachically forbidden things, and usually they are actually closer to tradition than what people currently do  - For example:  mixed seating at weddings.  Nothing wrong with it and used to be a norm.   Now it's become taboo in some circles.

[Sveta]

Is there something "strict" religiously about not posting on the forum?   

Not necessarily. I was trying to "quit" the internet. But I guess I just could not do it.

Thank you all for your replies. This was very helpful information to me.

[Israel Chai]

You can daven there, but nothing replaces hardcore orthodox who tell it like it is and have the pride in Hashem not to water down the truth, and fill you with pride for Judaism.

I have no problem with the Modern Othodox, but some rabbis that I heard speak there gave nice, pretty speeches instead of hard hitting things, which you can easily argue does damage to the Jewish people.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

MO is a mixed bag.   The leftwing are completely nuts.  The "MO Machmir" (right wing modern orthodox) is very religious with good values and just a few cultural differences from the more yeshivish crowd. 

By Left Wing do you mean politically or their level of observance? I call myself Modern Orthodox Liberal (The term was invented on Frumster.) to describe my level of observance. My level of religious ideology and politics is Right Wing Jewish nationalist.

It seems that too many Modern Orthodox rabbis in the United States tend to be less Right Wing politically. In Israel it's the opposite. Modern Orthodoxy in Israel is called National Religious (Religious Zionist) while the the Haredim are known not to be Zionists. The Haredim in the United States are more likely to vote Republican than other Orthodox Jews. Haredi rabbis are not afraid to speak up against Obama. The rabbi of my synagogue thinks that he can't be political because of the separation of religion and state, thereby jeopardizing the tax exempt status of the synagogue. The rabbi also likes to promote AIPAC. I told him they don't help Pollard. He said they don't take an opinion (their words) and he said AIPAC's "Israel update" that he puts on the Shabbat announcements shows AIPAC's successes. But they don't take political position so how can they be successful? They just seem to be a mouthpiece for the Hate Department. I thought if Orthodox synagogues work in AIPAC, they would try to influence AIPAC but it seems it's just a waste of money when the rabbi goes to their convention where all they do is eat and hear speeches by evil Establishment people. The rabbi was surprised when I said Nefesh B'Nefesh is a real Right Wing group unlike AIPAC when Nefesh B'Nefesh sent the synagogue a check to have the rabbi speak about aliyah. If a group is not Right Wing, then it would be an evil group. Judaism and the Bible are Right Wing so I don't know how someone could speak as a Leftist in the name of Judaism.