Author Topic: Shalom  (Read 5996 times)

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Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2013, 06:20:33 PM »
Okay I just saw the video, honestly who cares? This is a very good way to make money, heck someone should make sh^t like this up, then they can get a lot of dummies to go on and tip them a lot.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Rubystars

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2013, 09:31:01 PM »
No ones human rights were violated, not Alan Turing's, and certainly not the guy's in this story.  You don't have a human right to a tip.  The left has certainly succeeded in making people believe things like this though.

You don't think forcing someone to choose between jail and chemical castration because they want to engage in something between consenting adults, and driving them to suicide over it, is a violation of human rights?

When I had found out what happened to Turing I was in total shock.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 09:53:37 PM by Rubystars »

Offline Rubystars

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2013, 09:35:34 PM »
The real violation of human rights though has been the fact that the mainstream psychiatric and psychological institutions no longer regard homosexuality as a mental disorder. This cuts off people who have unwanted gay thoughts from professional help and resources, leaving their only option to getting help the amateur and often ineffective religious reparative therapy. Now the leftists want to cut off even that resource to them, as flawed as it may be. That's really sad and unfair. Unless the psychological community is going to offer a professional alternative they shouldn't be cutting off the only help people have access to.

Offline kyel

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2013, 07:29:36 AM »
Not really.  I suppose there could have been therapies offered besides chemical ones but if I was in charge one of the choices would have been death so I don't see these choices as inhumane (he actually chose death in the end anyway though).   They sometimes do "chemical castration" for pedophiles today and no one sees a problem with that.  The time of Turing was a more sane era when the homosexual lifestyle was still considered unacceptable and they actually had laws against it.   Another thing the left has succeeded in doing is convincing people that what "consenting adults" do can never be wrong.  Well adultery is also between consenting adults but it tears apart the family unit and the fabric of society, just like homosexuality.  So the only reason this shocks the modern mind is because liberals have corrupted the culture to that extent.


I think death is an extreme choice. A major problem with homosexuality is that if you say its a choice people will think you're insane for suggesting such a thing and will cast you as a "homophobe" because you think logically.

Offline Rubystars

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2013, 08:58:30 AM »
Acting on the homosexual desires is a choice and should not be done because it is sinful and because it hurts both people involved physically and spiritually. It makes them prone to diseases like HIV and some acts can cause unnecessary physical damage in other ways. Even if it wasn't prohibited in the Bible it would still be wrong/icky/against what people should do. The condemnation in the Bible of homosexual behavior is a good thing. I think the response however should be in how to help these people to become celibate, or if bisexual to only act on the heterosexual half of their desires.

Adultery is also wrong and evil. It hurts the people involved, and breaks apart families. In many ways its worse than a homosexual who never tries to get "married" or raise kids because the adulterer is breaking trust, exposing his wife or her husband to diseases without her or his full knowledge/consent, . and exposing the married couple's children to danger and/or a broken home.

Dan, I don't see how you can compare pedophilia to anything else. Pedophiles who act on their deviant desires are always criminals both legally and morally. A child can not give consent. Any sex with a child is automatically rape. I would agree to the immediate death penalty for a convicted pedophile because those types of desires are never going to go away from the perpetrator and they will always be a danger if allowed to be around children at all.

I don't believe that any pedophile who acted on their desires should ever be released back into society. They're a whole level of sick that's above anything else.

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2013, 11:44:48 PM »
It's crazy how they say homosexuals have a right to choose to be gay but then they say they were born that way and criticize for offering the choice not to be gay. They say "it's their choice" or "their democratic choice" but then act like they can't help it.


Offline kyel

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« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2013, 12:31:29 AM »
Pedophiles are no more dangerous to society than homosexuals.  So when is the cut-off for when someone can give consent?  I've heard that the brain is not fully formed until age 25.  This is another cultural determination.  Culture, not science, determines what is sick, criminal, unacceptable, etc.  The reason the American Psychological Association does not treat homosexuality is because it does not interfere with secular culture.  And of course the left is actually trying to normalize people now who have "attraction to minors" and incest since their lies worked about homosexuality.  And since gradually society tends to fall hook line and sinker for the flawed liberal arguments and tends to reject the legitimate conservative arguments, in the future you will have many self-hating Jews and Christians arguing for the so-called human rights of pedophiles.

You think homosexuals having sex with eachother is equal to pedophiles who kidnap rape and sometimes kill children?

Offline Israel Chai

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2013, 02:02:16 AM »
You think homosexuals having sex with eachother is equal to pedophiles who kidnap rape and sometimes kill children?

No that's like 3 crimes. More like Arab pedophiles, it's equal.
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Offline nessuno

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2013, 07:24:28 AM »
You think homosexuals having sex with eachother is equal to pedophiles who kidnap rape and sometimes kill children?
Good question.
Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline Rubystars

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2013, 10:02:09 AM »
Pedophiles are no more dangerous to society than homosexuals.

I really don't see how you can say that when pedophiles destroy children's lives, physically and mentally traumatize them, and sometimes even kill the children. Living next door to a homosexual who is only interested in other adults is much safer than living next to a pedophile for a family with children.

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So when is the cut-off for when someone can give consent?  I've heard that the brain is not fully formed until age 25.  This is another cultural determination.  Culture, not science, determines what is sick, criminal, unacceptable, etc.

Both homosexuality and pedophilia are sick and unacceptable. One primarily affects adults who make a conscious choice to engage in the evil behavior, while the other targets innocent children who have no choice but to be victims. A homosexual encounter (let's say two of them meet each other at a bar and decide to go have anal sex together that night), is an abomination, sick, and against God's will. It can also bring judgment down upon the nation that allows that behavior to continue unchecked. However, nobody in that scenario is a victim. It involves two people who chose to engage in degenerate/evil behavior with one another. When a pedophile acts on their deviant desires it automatically creates an unwilling victim.

That's why consent is important in these discussions. Both homosexuality and pedophilia are evil, but pedophilia automatically creates a victim.

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The reason the American Psychological Association does not treat homosexuality is because it does not interfere with secular culture.  And of course the left is actually trying to normalize people now who have "attraction to minors" and incest since their lies worked about homosexuality.

That's true. I've been trying to bring up this point many times on my own facebook wall and other places. People don't want to believe me when I try to warn that normalizing pedophiles is the next step of the communist/liberal agenda but I'm glad that you at least recognize that. The keywords are going to be "minor attracted" and "consenting partners" (notice the difference, it's not consenting adults, but consenting without the adult part tacked on). Pedophiles have for years argued that children are capable of "enjoying" being victimized. This can be traced at least as far back as the evil abomination/pervert Kinsey.

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And since gradually society tends to fall hook line and sinker for the flawed liberal arguments and tends to reject the legitimate conservative arguments, in the future you will have many self-hating Jews and Christians arguing for the so-called human rights of pedophiles.

If someone has an orientation that directs them to be sexually attracted to children then it is up to them to get help before they act on those desires. Or, if someone else knows about it, to get help for the person whether they want it or not. If someone like that steps forward and admits this problem before they act on it, then now at least they have access to some help to try to keep themselves out of trouble and children safe from their urges.

They retain their human rights not to be tortured/killed as long as they don't act on it and are doing everything in their power to seek help and keep children safe.

If someone chooses to act on it then they have forfeited their right to be in society at all and should immediately be put to death.

As for homosexuals in today's society, there should be some kind of solutions available. Mandatory professional treatment should be the first step, to help them not to act on their deviant desires. There's a lot of evidence that an orientation is very difficult to actually change, but with professional treatment they could become celibate and find meaning in their lives in other ways besides sex.

They should never be allowed to raise children.

Being caught committing homosexual acts again should have further punishment, but I don't think giving a man hormones until he starts to have feminine characteristics and driving him to suicide is a very good idea. The constitution is against cruel or unusual punishments like that.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 10:29:25 AM by Rubystars »

Offline drlmg

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2013, 11:00:49 AM »
Personally I feel that the couple only alienated the gay waiter..... in other words "we are too good for you, we will ALLOW you to serve us but leave no tip"...
Treating someone with respect does not equate to condoning their lifestyle. I don't think the waiter's lifestyle should even be an issue in this situation. If the waiter invited them to participate in gay activities  :fright: (or similar) they could respectfully decline and voice their opinion on homosexuality, otherwise they come across as "holier than thou".

Offline Israel Chai

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2013, 11:08:37 AM »
Personally I feel that the couple only alienated the gay waiter..... in other words "we are too good for you, we will ALLOW you to serve us but leave no tip"...
Treating someone with respect does not equate to condoning their lifestyle. I don't think the waiter's lifestyle should even be an issue in this situation. If the waiter invited them to participate in gay activities  :fright: (or similar) they could respectfully decline and voice their opinion on homosexuality, otherwise they come across as "holier than thou".

I don't think so. They're just hypocrites. If they didn't want to support his disgusting behavior, they shouldn't have eaten at the restaurant. If they didn't like the twisted voice they have, they should have canceled their order and left. My option would be one of the previous two. If they stay there until the end, they show they have no problem with them, and they were just using this tipping thing as a way to get the guy to read their note, because they were too afraid to tell him upfront.
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Offline drlmg

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2013, 11:29:55 AM »
I don't think so. They're just hypocrites. If they didn't want to support his disgusting behavior, they shouldn't have eaten at the restaurant. If they didn't like the twisted voice they have, they should have canceled their order and left. My option would be one of the previous two. If they stay there until the end, they show they have no problem with them, and they were just using this tipping thing as a way to get the guy to read their note, because they were too afraid to tell him upfront.

I totally agree....

Offline Rubystars

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2013, 11:34:46 AM »
Treating someone with respect does not equate to condoning their lifestyle.

Right.


Offline muman613

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2013, 04:55:22 PM »
All sexual deviancy is sickness... I am of the belief that bestiality will be legal before pedophilia because animals are not capable of saying no, thus they implicitly are granting consent. Animals do not have civil rights at this time and thus they have no recourse through the law. They are also unable to make complaints to the authorities.

I believe the common thread which runs through all three (homosexual, bestial, and pedophile) perversions has to do with domination of the other, sadistic pleasure at being able to penetrate and violate the other. Because of this I find myself agreeing with Dan on most of this topic.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline nessuno

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2013, 04:57:29 PM »
People should not eat out if they have all these problems.
Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2013, 05:35:05 PM »
Dan--maybe there is no right to a tip, but there is an expectation that human beings that profess to be Christians don't act like d-bags. The behavior of the couple accomplished nothing, certainly not getting the allegedly gay waiter to change his mind.

Rubystars--I don't agree with how Turing was treated but I do think that unrepentant homosexuals should receive involuntary psychological assistance. Homosexuality is a mental illness.

Offline Israel Chai

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2013, 09:07:44 PM »
Dan--maybe there is no right to a tip, but there is an expectation that human beings that profess to be Christians don't act like d-bags. The behavior of the couple accomplished nothing, certainly not getting the allegedly gay waiter to change his mind.

Rubystars--I don't agree with how Turing was treated but I do think that unrepentant homosexuals should receive involuntary psychological assistance. Homosexuality is a mental illness.

I really don't have a problem with how he was treated. These twisted people were once executed, so I'm not crying that he didn't get a tip. The fact that they wanted to behave harshly wasn't unjustified, there was someone doing a terrible sin that would destroy his life here and after physical death. It's completely understandable. If you're going to do something, though, do it, make a stand, don't sit quietly and leave a note on how you're completely opposed to the person you just took benefit from. If you really had a problem, you wouldn't take his service for money, or money for free. I am literally boycotting half the coffee shops where I live for this reason.

If someone lies to you in a sales presentation, are you going to purchase the product, and then write a note that you will not give him a referral because you disagree with liars, or even if he didn't lie but is a known liar? When's the last time the baptists here sat around and sang Amen to a pastor who wants Arabs to rule America, and then drops a piece of paper with "I disagree" on it in the collection plate? You spit on the floor if they say, "stay", and you leave.
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Offline muman613

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2013, 10:34:28 PM »
Dan,

The problem is that this person was doing his job at the time. He was not engaging in any homosexual activity. The Torah does not prohibit the appearance of being homosexual, it clearly only forbids the actual sex act itself. Besides that, in order to have the death penalty, at least two witnesses of the act are required and they must have warned the transgressor before the crime that it is prohibited. This is the required sequence of events according to the Torah (as I understand it) in order to prosecute a homosexual.

None of those events took place. On what basis was this person (waiter) determined to be a homosexual? Obviously he did not engage in the prohibited action while working in the restaurant. So I question whether it was really a pure act on the part of the customers who left the note.

Again, if we are to push for enforcing the prohibition against sexual immorality we must also be aware that the Torah expressly commands the death penalty for Jews who do not observe the Sabbath. If we were really standing up for the Torah we would be just as mad at all the Jews who desecrate the Sabbath and call for the death penalty for them, just as much as for the homosexual...

The Torah actually has a narrative about a man who transgressed Shabbat, and how he was put to death. There is no such narrative concerning the death of a homosexual...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Rubystars

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2013, 12:12:01 PM »
Dan--maybe there is no right to a tip, but there is an expectation that human beings that profess to be Christians don't act like d-bags. The behavior of the couple accomplished nothing, certainly not getting the allegedly gay waiter to change his mind.

Rubystars--I don't agree with how Turing was treated but I do think that unrepentant homosexuals should receive involuntary psychological assistance. Homosexuality is a mental illness.

As long as they don't attempt to bring their homosexuality into the public domain by pushing for redefining marriage or trying to adopt children to two "parents" of the same sex, then I don't really think it's any of our business if someone is homosexual or not as long as the person keeps it private. What they choose to do if they are having sexual acts with people of the same sex will bring God's judgment upon them if they don't repent for and change their behavior. I don't want the government intruding into someone's bedroom activities like that just because what they are doing might be a sin. Sins bring their own judgments, both in this world and the next.

When they are open homosexuals and promote homosexuality and special rights for homosexuals then it becomes in the public interest to do something about the problem. God will judge a nation that allows that kind of thing. Public homosexuality is a nation destroyer.

Then I think they should be subject to involuntary treatment (not necessarily to change the orientation, but at least to help them be celibate). I do think an orientation can be fluid to some degree and change over the course of a person's life but just as heterosexuals generally couldn't imagine enjoying sex with someone of the same sex, true homosexuals (who are not bisexual) wouldn't enjoy sex with someone of the opposite sex and therapy generally isn't going to change that unless the person is still very young and impressionable. I don't think anybody should try to enforce that they actually form an opposite sex relationship which they could never be fully emotionally invested in.  Celibacy should be the goal for true homosexuals and bisexuals should be encouraged to either be celibate or stick to opposite sex relationships.

There is one thing that Dan said that I agree with and that's that just because something is between consenting adults doesn't make it right. I think Kinsey is partly at fault for promoting the idea that it is. Obviously something like homosexuality hurts the people involved spiritually and sometimes physically as well.

I recently saw a video of someone talking about how they had M/M sex with someone they trusted and found out they were HIV positive after the fact. Now that person has to live with the spectre of AIDS hanging over them the rest of their lives. If they ever lose access to the medications they take, or the medicines stop working, that person will probably develop and die of AIDS. That's something that never would have happened to them if they had followed what the Bible taught. This was a judgment they brought upon themselves by their evil choice in behavior. There are serious consequences for sinful behavior that will happen to the people involved whether or not anybody gives them an official punishment.

Offline Rubystars

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2013, 12:21:46 PM »
All sexual deviancy is sickness... I am of the belief that bestiality will be legal before pedophilia because animals are not capable of saying no, thus they implicitly are granting consent. Animals do not have civil rights at this time and thus they have no recourse through the law. They are also unable to make complaints to the authorities.

I believe the common thread which runs through all three (homosexual, bestial, and pedophile) perversions has to do with domination of the other, sadistic pleasure at being able to penetrate and violate the other. Because of this I find myself agreeing with Dan on most of this topic.

Bestiality is already legal in some areas of the USA. I think the liberals are going to normalize pedophilia first to the general public though so they can begin to make that legal too at least in some areas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoophilia_and_the_law_in_the_United_States

Dan and I both agree that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination. I just don't think homosexuals should be subject to bizarre punishments like being made to grow breasts from hormone treatments like Turing was.

Offline Shlomo

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Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2013, 07:27:51 PM »
While I agree that homosexual behavior is completely wrong, and I have the highest respect for Dan Ben Noah, I can't see how this helps anything at all... except to make people in Kansas side with the homosexual waiter from sympathy (which is what happened). So really, it just made it worse. The Torah tells us that the end result matters.

What kind of person leaves a hate filled mega-self-righteous sounding note telling the guy he had great customer service, that he's going to hell, making sure to throw in there that the person writing the note is going to heaven, telling him "we hope you will see the tip your fag choices made you lose out on" (I mean, really? What like $3?), and then says " It is never too late for GOD’S love"? So they think this guy is going to be straight now and run out and buy a Bible because he didn't get a tip and got called names in an arrogant sounding note that tells him God hates him? What normal person does this?

Does Westboro Baptist Church do any good at all with their signs at funerals saying "God Hates Fags"? Absolutely not. They are all idiots, and we do not wish to imitate them in any shape or form.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a stunt done by gays to gain sympathy. I wish this thread would quietly drift off of the main page.
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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2013, 07:48:35 PM »
While I agree that homosexual behavior is completely wrong, and I have the highest respect for Dan Ben Noah, I can't see how this helps anything at all... except to make people in Kansas side with the homosexual waiter from sympathy (which is what happened). So really, it just made it worse. The Torah tells us that the end result matters.

What kind of person leaves a hate filled mega-self-righteous sounding note telling the guy he had great customer service, that he's going to hell, making sure to throw in there that the person writing the note is going to heaven, telling him "we hope you will see the tip your fag choices made you lose out on" (I mean, really? What like $3?), and then says " It is never too late for GOD’S love"? So they think this guy is going to be straight now and run out and buy a Bible because he didn't get a tip and got called names in an arrogant sounding note that tells him God hates him? What normal person does this?

Does Westboro Baptist Church do any good at all with their signs at funerals saying "God Hates Fags"? Absolutely not. They are all idiots, and we do not wish to imitate them in any shape or form.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a stunt done by gays to gain sympathy. I wish this thread would quietly drift off of the main page.
I think you're right.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #48 on: October 31, 2013, 09:16:09 PM »


I wouldn't be surprised if this was a stunt done by gays to gain sympathy.

My thoughts exactly, but I kinda maxed out on conspiracies for the week with my dentistry...
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Offline AsheDina

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Re: Kansas couple gives note instead of tip to gay waiter
« Reply #49 on: November 01, 2013, 12:59:42 PM »
That's what a normal person would see. The left sees this as an example that all conservatives are hateful people.

These people that stiffed him didnt show an example of any type of kindness at all.  Homosexuals are sick people. Bigtime.

He is WORKING. 
If they didnt want him to serve them, they simply could have requested another table in another section.
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