Author Topic: The Tribe of Dinah.  (Read 5821 times)

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Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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The Tribe of Dinah.
« on: November 05, 2013, 09:34:26 PM »
Sorry, but it has been driving me nuts since Chaim mentioned The 13th Tribe... Any thoughts and info?
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: The Tribe of Dinah.
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2013, 10:47:19 PM »
Sorry, but it has been driving me nuts since Chaim mentioned The 13th Tribe... Any thoughts and info?

LOL nice, thanks for reminding me. I would like to have someone ask Chaim on this for the coming up show. Never heard of it before, but from the little that I know I believe (at least its probably a Medrash) that Dina should have been a male, but because Rachel only had 1 child (I think her mother) prayed that she have a girl instead of a boy soo her sister Rachel could have 2 children from who'm will be 2 tribes (technically you can also say 3 since Yosef divided up into Ephraim and Menashe + Benyamin).
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: The Tribe of Dinah.
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2013, 11:28:45 PM »
LOL nice, thanks for reminding me. I would like to have someone ask Chaim on this for the coming up show. Never heard of it before, but from the little that I know I believe (at least its probably a Medrash) that Dina should have been a male, but because Rachel only had 1 child (I think her mother) prayed that she have a girl instead of a boy soo her sister Rachel could have 2 children from who'm will be 2 tribes (technically you can also say 3 since Yosef divided up into Ephraim and Menashe + Benyamin).
Reread what you wrote, you totally confused me... I did ask Chaim though.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: The Tribe of Dinah.
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2013, 12:17:35 AM »
I believe Tag is correct...

Dinah was supposed to be a boy...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: The Tribe of Dinah.
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2013, 12:21:44 AM »
Actually Tag I found a Gemara in the Talmud (not just Medresh) Berachot 60a:

Quote
http://halakhah.com/berakoth/berakoth_60.html

IF A MAN'S WIFE IS PREGNANT AND HE SAYS, MAY [GOD] GRANT THAT MY WIFE BEAR etc. THIS IS A VAIN PRAYER. Are prayers then [in such circumstances] of no avail? R. Joseph cited the following in objection: And afterwards she bore a daughter and called her name Dinah.8  What is meant by 'afterwards'? Rab said: After Leah had passed judgment on herself, saying, 'Twelve tribes are destined to issue from Jacob. Six have issued from me and four from the handmaids, making ten. If this child will be a male, my sister Rachel will not be equal to one of the handmaids'. Forthwith the child was turned to a girl, as it says, And she called her name Dinah!9  — We cannot cite a miraculous event [in refutation of the Mishnah]. Alternatively I may reply that the incident of Leah occurred within forty days [after conception], according to what has been taught: Within the first three days a man should pray that the seed should not putrefy; from the third to the fortieth day he should pray that the child should be a male; from the fortieth day to three months he should pray that it should not be a sandal;10  from three months to six months he should pray that it should not be still-born; from six months to nine months he should pray for a safe delivery. But does such a prayer11  avail? Has not R. Isaac the son of R. Ammi said: If the man first emits seed, the child will be a girl; if the woman first emits seed, the child will be a boy?12  — With what case are we dealing here? If, for instance, they both emitted seed at the same time.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: The Tribe of Dinah.
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2013, 12:24:55 AM »
It is in 60B where we learn about the blessing of 'Baruch Dayan HaEmet'...

IT IS INCUMBENT ON A MAN TO BLESS etc. What is meant by being bound to bless for the evil in the same way as for the good? Shall I say that, just as for good one says the benediction 'Who is good and bestows good', so for evil one should say the benediction 'Who is good and bestows good'? But we have learnt: FOR GOOD TIDINGS ONE SAYS, WHO IS GOOD AND BESTOWS GOOD: FOR EVIL TIDINGS ONE SAYS, BLESSED BE THE TRUE JUDGE? — Raba said: What it really means is that one must receive the evil with gladness. R. Aha said in the name of R. Levi: Where do we find this in the Scripture? I will sing of mercy and justice, unto Thee, O Lord, will I sing praises,'8  whether it is 'mercy' I will sing, or whether it is 'justice' I will sing. R. Samuel b. Nahmani said: We learn it from here: In the Lord I will praise His word, in God I will praise His word.9  'In the Lord10  I will praise His word': this refers to good dispensation; 'In God11  I will praise His word': this refers to the dispensation of suffering. R. Tanhum said: We learn it from here: I will lift up the cup of salvation and call on the name of the Lord;12  I found trouble and sorrow, but I called upon the name of the Lord.13  The Rabbis derive it from here: The Lord gave and the Lord hath taken away,' blessed be the name of the Lord.14
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: The Tribe of Dinah.
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2013, 12:28:16 AM »
Ephraim,

You may find this article interesting:

http://www.torah.org/learning/perceptions/5771/vayeishev.html

Quote
What about Chanukah? Who exemplified the light that is the basis of Chanukah? This week’s parshah alludes to the answer by connecting Yosef to the number 17, the number that represents the light with which God made Creation and which, as Rashi explains, was hidden on the first day of Creation. For, this light is the first thing to be called “good” in the Torah, the Hebrew word having a gematria of 17.

Indeed, as we saw in last week’s Haftarah, Yosef is compared to a flame:

The house of Ya’akov will be fire, the house of Yosef a flame, and the house of Eisav for straw; and they will ignite them and devour them. There will be no survivor to the house of Eisav, for God has spoken. (Ovadiah 1:18)

And, not just any flame, but specifically the flame that will rid the world of the descendants of Eisav who will not deserve to live into the Messianic Era:

When Rachel had given birth to Yosef, Ya’akov said to Lavan, “Grant me leave that I may go to my place and to my land.” (Bereishis 30:25)

Since the adversary of Eisav was born, as it says, “The house of Ya’akov will be fire, the house of Yosef a flame, and the house of Eisav straw; and they will ignite them and devour them. (Ovadiah 1:18). Fire without a flame is powerless from a distance, and thus once Yosef was born, Ya’akov trusted in The Holy One, Blessed is He, and desired to return. (Rashi)


The story of Yosef is a curious one indeed. Of all the tribes born, his was the only one that comes with a story:

Rav said: After Leah had passed judgment on herself, saying, “Twelve tribes are destined to be born to Ya’akov. Six have been born from me and four from the handmaids, making ten. If this child will be a male, my sister Rachel will not be equal to one of the handmaids!” As a result, the child was changed to a girl, as it says, “And she called her name Dinah” (Bereishis 30:21). (Brochos 60a)

Hence, though the adversary of Eisav was destined to be born from Leah, as the result of an act of empathy, he was, in the end, born to Rachel. And, since, as the Arizal explains, we know that children are not randomly born to their parents, there must have been some kind of connection between Leah and Yosef, even though he was born to Rachel in the end, and was considered to be closest to her.

What does this mean for history? What does this mean for Chanukah?
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: The Tribe of Dinah.
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2013, 12:39:47 AM »
It occurs to me that there was never supposed to be a 13th tribe. Hashem's plan all along was 12 tribes of Israel. It is for this reason Dinah was born a woman. There is an interesting explanation of Dinah on the Chabad site:

One of the reasons, according to the sages, that Dinah was raped was because she was an 'outgoing' gal. She would go out and not be so modest in doing so. Jacob locked her in a chest to prevent her from meeting Eisav lest he believe he could marry her...



http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/2668/jewish/Outgoing-Woman.htm

Our sages note that in the opening verse of its account, the Torah introduces Dinah as Leah’s child. She is not referred to as “the daughter of Jacob,” or “the daughter of Jacob and Leah,” or even as “the daughter of Leah and Jacob,” but as “the daughter of Leah, whom she bore to Jacob.” Rashi explains:

Because of her going out, she is called “the daughter of Leah.” For [Leah,] too, was an “outgoer,” as it is written, “And Leah went out to greet him” (Genesis 30:16). Regarding her it has been said, “Like mother, like daughter.”

At first glance, this seems an indictment of Leah’s and Dinah’s behavior. The hallmark of the Jewish woman is her tzniut, the modesty in dress and demeanor expressed by the verse (Psalms 45:14), “The entire glory of the king’s daughter is within.” A Jewish girl, Rashi seems to be saying, has no business going out to visit with the daughters of a pagan land; when she does, she is not acting as a daughter of Jacob but like her mother, who is known to have—on occasion—embarked on outings of her own. For the king’s daughter to leave her inner sanctum is to expose herself to all sorts of negative encounters, as Dinah’s case tragically demonstrates.1

This, however, cannot be Rashi’s intention, for it runs contrary to what he writes in his commentary on a previous verse. A few chapters back, where Jacob is preparing for his encounter with his wicked brother Esau, we read (Genesis 32:23):

And [Jacob] took his two wives, his two handmaidens and his eleven sons, and he crossed the ford of Jabbok.

Asks Rashi: What about his daughter?

Where was Dinah? Jacob had placed her in a chest and locked her in, lest Esau set his eyes on her. For this, Jacob was punished, for had he not withheld her from his brother, perhaps she would have brought [Esau] back to the proper path. [The punishment was] that she fell into the hands of Shechem.

In other words, it was Jacob’s isolation of Dinah, not Dinah’s and Leah’s outgoingness, that was the cause of Dinah’s misfortune. Dinah should not have been hidden from Esau. Her encounter with the big, bad world should not have been avoided; indeed, it should have been welcomed. Jacob feared that she would be corrupted by her wicked uncle; he should have realized that, with her firm moral grounding and unassailable integrity, she was far more likely to influence Esau for the better.

Interestingly enough, here, too, there is a mother-daughter connection. The Torah (in Genesis 29:17) tells us that “Leah’s eyes were weak.” Rashi explains that they were weak from weeping:

She wept over the thought that she would fall to the lot of Esau. For everyone was saying: Rebecca has two sons and Laban has two daughters; the elder son (Esau) is destined for the elder daughter (Leah), and the younger son (Jacob) for the younger daughter (Rachel).

This was more than common speculation; according to the Midrash, these were matches ordained in heaven. But Leah’s tearful prayers changed the heavenly decree, and both sisters were married to the righteous younger son. But it was Leah who was Esau’s potential soulmate. If she herself felt unequal to the challenge of dealing with his wickedness, her daughter and spiritual heir, Dinah, could have served as the instrument of Esau’s redemption.

This is the deeper significance of the adage, “Like mother, like daughter,” quoted by Rashi. Our children inherit not only our actual traits but also our unrealized potentials. Physically, a brown-eyed mother may transmit to her child the potential for blue eyes inherited from her mother but dormant in her genes. Spiritually, a parent may impart to a child the ability to achieve what, for the parent, is no more than a subtle potential buried in the deepest recesses of his or her soul.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: The Tribe of Dinah.
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2013, 12:53:54 AM »
A very interesting essay on the rape of Dinah according to the sages and commentators.


http://www.njop.org/html/printfiles/Vayishlachprint5770.html

"The Rape of Dinah: Impossible to Fathom!"
Rabbi Ephraim Buchwald


In this week's parasha, parashat Vayishlach, we learn of the brutal abduction and rape of Jacob's daughter, Dinah.

The Bible in Genesis 34:1 tells us: "Va'tay'tzay Dinah bat Leah, ah'sher yal'dah l'Yaakov, lir'oht biv'noht ha'ah'retz," Dinah, the daughter of Leah, whom she had borne to Jacob, went out to look over the daughters of the land. Shechem, the son of Hamor, the Hivvite, who was then the prince of the region, saw her, abducted, raped and violated her.

Professing deep love for Dinah, Shechem attempted to appeal to her emotions to become his wife. When that failed, he demanded that his father, Hamor, negotiate with Dinah's family that she become his wife. Hamor and Shechem go to speak to Jacob. When Dinah's brothers hear the proposal they are outraged and answer Shechem and his father deceitfully, insisting that the only way Dinah could marry Shechem would be if all the men of the city of Shechem would undergo circumcision.

Obsessed with Dinah, Shechem convinces the men to undergo circumcision. On the third day after the circumcision, two of Dinah's brothers, Simeon and Levi, attack the ailing men and murder all the males of the city. Jacob's remaining sons then arrive to plunder the city, taking all the people's wealth, including their flocks and cattle, children and wives.

Jacob is profoundly upset with Simeon and Levi, accusing them of making him odious among the inhabitants of the land and opening the whole family up to attack by the Canaanite nations. Simeon and Levi simply respond (Genesis 34:31), "Should our sister be treated like a harlot?" When Jacob's family eventually leaves Shechem, Scripture (Genesis 35:5) testifies that G-d's fear was on the local people, and they did not pursue Jacob and his family.

The episode of the rape of Dinah raises many questions. One prominent issue is whether the actions of Simeon and Levi were in any way justified. From Jacob's reaction to Simeon and Levi, they seem to be entirely unjustified. However, since G-d put dread in the local population, it appears that their actions were indeed justified.

An even more formidable question, is the issue of Dinah herself. What could Dinah have possibly done to bring upon herself this horrific attack? Even asking such a question in this day and age is considered entirely inappropriate--as this may imply blaming the victim. However, since this question was raised by the Bible commentators of old, who viewed everything as coming from G-d, their views must be discussed even if they are disturbing.

Rashi (Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki, 1040-1105, foremost commentator on the Bible) comments on the verse in Genesis 34:1, that states that Dinah "went out to look at the daughters of the land." Noting that the verse specifically refers to Dinah as the "daughter of Leah," and not the daughter of Jacob, indicates, says Rashi, that Dina was a "yatzaneet," excessively outgoing, and extremely forward, very much like her mother Leah.

On what occasion was Dina's mother, Leah, excessively outgoing? In parashat Vayeitzei, (Genesis 30:14), we learn that Reuven finds duddaim--mandrakes, a fertility drug or an aphrodisiac, and brings them to his mother, Leah. Rachel, who is barren and desperate for a child, insists on having them, and trades her night with Jacob for the mandrakes. That evening, when Jacob returned from the field, he is met by Leah who brazenly insists that Jacob spend the night with her, since she has "hired him" with her son's duddaim. The commentators suggest that this immodest behavior proved ruinous for her daughter, Dinah, who, following her mother's example, went out into the lawless city of Shechem, and as a result was attacked.

However, Rashi's comments in a previous episode, suggest still another reason for the rape of Dinah. Before confronting his brother Esau after many years of estrangement, Jacob quietly transfers his family to the other side of the river Jabbok. Scripture notes in Genesis 32:23 that Jacob arose that night, took his two wives, his two handmaids and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. Rashi famously asks, "V'Dinah hay'chahn hay'tah?" Why does the verse mention eleven sons, but not Jacob's daughter, Dinah? Rashi, citing the Midrash, maintains that Jacob had placed Dinah in a sealed box so that Esau would not lay his lecherous eyes on her and seek to marry the lovely girl. Despite the fact that Jacob was trying to protect Dinah from Esau, says Rashi, Jacob was punished, because by keeping Dinah from his brother, he prevented Dinah from possibly influencing Esau and perhaps returning him to goodness. Instead, she fell into the hands of Shechem.

As opposed to his comments in Vayishlach, Rashi's approach here suggests that the rape of Dinah was not punishment for Dinah's actions, but rather for Jacob's failure to allow Dinah to positively influence his brother Esau.

To many observers, both answers cited by Rashi are highly unsatisfactory. After all, our bible in Deuteronomy 24:16 states emphatically, "Ish b'chet'oh yu'mah'too," every person is responsible for his own sin! Judaism does not countenance an innocent person being punished for the sin of another person.

Rejecting the possibility that the "reason" for Dinah's rape was possibly due to her own dealings or Jacob's inappropriate actions, leaves the entire issue unresolved.

Sidestepping the issue of cause or guilt, the rabbis of the Midrash seem to assert that this entire episode was not at all a punishment, but simply the playing out of Jewish destiny. According to the Midrash, Dinah becomes pregnant and gives birth to a girl, named Osnat. Dinah's brothers are very unhappy to have the child of a rape in their home, and demand that the child be expelled. This troubled Jacob very much. Without going into the details that may be found in the Midrash, Osnat ultimately winds up in the house of Potiphar, where she saves Joseph's life and eventually marries him. She bears him two children, Ephraim and Menashe, whose great loyalty to Jewish tradition merits them the distinction of becoming the progenitors of two full-fledged tribes of Israel. The reason for Dinah's pain and trauma is unaddressed, but the end result is a dramatic change in the destiny of the Jewish people.

When all is said and done, for many students of the Bible there are no adequate answers, and the episode of Dinah's rape remains unfathomable and impossible to understand. It is another chapter in the never-ending quest to make sense of human suffering.

My son, Naphtali Buchwald, shared with me an interesting insight concerning Rashi's second opinion that states that Jacob hid Dinah in the box preventing her from influencing Esau. Naphtali notes that by the Midrashic account, Dinah at that time should be about six years old and Esau 97 years old. How would it be possible for such a young girl to influence a grown man whose fierce attitudes had already been shaped? After all, his own father Isaac was not able to influence Esau, nor was his mother Rebecca, or his brother Jacob? How then could this little child be expected to influence Esau? Naphtali cited the opinion of the Darshan of Jerusalem who answered that question with three simple Yiddish words, "A Yiddishe veib!" a Jewish wife, implying that when a Jewish woman puts her mind to something she can surely achieve it. If she wishes to influence her husband, she can have more influence on him than even Abraham, Isaac or Rebecca. That is the power of Jewish wives.

There are a lot of Jewish men who can testify to the fact that there is much truth to this claim. I am surely one of them.

May you be blessed.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: The Tribe of Dinah.
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2013, 10:17:08 AM »
Reread what you wrote, you totally confused me... I did ask Chaim though.
Nevermind, I got it.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.