Author Topic: Haredi sickness and lies.  (Read 8914 times)

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Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Haredi sickness and lies.
« on: February 27, 2014, 01:28:56 AM »
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2014, 01:33:05 AM »
How is having Haredim in the army an evil "degree" such as Haman had against Am Yisrael. This is not a tragedy at all. This is the ways and actions that Haredim are destroying Am Yisrael. During the time of Haman, Jews made Teshuva, fasted, prayed and prepared for WAR and slaughtered the Nazis who wanted to murder the Jews, over 75,000 of them. Stop saying it is a "decree" etc. etc. this is only falsifying the truth and making the Torah and Judaism look horrible. Its just like during the time of the Holocaust their were "gedolim" who also said to stay in Europe and not go up to Eress Yisrael. If you really look at the Halachot on who and which Torah learners should really be exempt you would find only a small handful who can possibly qualify.

If they (the Haredim) make massive demonstrations and problem's they will work to destroy Am Yisrael. Its a fact that the Haredi population is going higher and higher and they are expecting the rest of society to support them. Its a tragedy that the Haredim themselves are being neglected and made to be poor people who struggle financially because they aren't given the opportunity to succeed and not given skills to succeed. The system of the "Gedolim" made and is making tragic consequences upon the Haredim and the rest of Jewish society. And please stop saying this is a war against Torah, NO this is correct action for the preservation of society and seeing what is good especially down the line. More people serving in the army and more people working for a living and contributing to society, instead of a growing sector who'm make a very big Hillul Hashem upon the rest (as the Rambam strongly says against those who take money for Torah learning, this case is even much much much worse).

And he talks about "unity", what unity is it? Only unity of Haredim who weren't united to begin with. Biggest discrimination is with and among themselves. Everyone else hates them and their haskaffa. Its really against the Torah 100%. Do they not learn Torah, not know about King David? Not learn about how its proper to fight, support one's family, etc. etc. Unfortunately many people are turned off from the Torah because of the actions and ways of the Haredim and their leaders. They reject THAT and not the real Torah.

 And also about "disrespecting the Rabbis", I personally see some of them outright disrespect any Rabbi that doesn't agree with them. They even sometimes don't refer to them as a Rabbi. For example some of the extreme Haredi types don't even refer to HaRav Kook ZTL as Rav Kook, they just say those Kook's, or Kook, omitted Rav to the title, and then when one disagrees with their Rabbis (who they themselves appoint) they accuse you of being a "hater of the Torah" and against the "Gedolim".

If the Haredim will demonstrate, make violence etc. he thinks other Jews will have sympathy for them. Who is he kidding? Many Jews already despise Haredim and on top of that we will see many Jews besides police beating the day lights out of them and hating them even more. Perhaps even get to the point of some of them getting killed.

How does Rabbi Mizrachi who is Sefardic say such things. These things and ideology originated from Askenasim, Sefardim were always Zionists. Even many Askenaism were Zionists also, a minority, mamash minority within the Askenasim usurped the "crown" of the Torah. They disrespect the other Religious Jews and Rabbanim such as Rav Kook ZTL, and then claim "Daas Torah". Sefardim were never anti-Zionists, now this ideology is apparently going to some Sefardim as well, unfortunately, as are many other things never made in the Sefardi world.


 he says "life risk and Eretz Yisrael" its not true, if it was true then Jews would never go into Israel to begin with because every war is a life risk. Its like the sin of the Meraglim, they didn't want to enter Israel. Its also like Europe before the Holocaust, they said its safer to be in the exile and not in Israel. We see G-D killed them in Europe and not the Jews in Israel (contrary to the Satmar/Haredi) ideology. Why you think that G-D killed during the Holocaust the Askenasi Haredim the most?

Next- he says about not believing in demons means not believing in the Gemarah. What about the Rambam? He clearly and explicitly wrote against demons. And its ookay not to believe in some parts of the Talmudh (+ this part can even be metaphorical). Aggadah is not binding, Halacha is. He at 1:38 says that person is an "apikoris" so I ask, is the Rambam an apikoris?

 And last thing- Jews CAN go up on Beit Hsmikdash. Their are definite areas that we can and do go up. Only Am Haartzim who do not know the Halachot and are really afraid of the Arabs say we cannot go up. Hachamim who know these laws say the truth- go to Mikwah and then you can go up. We are all Tamei Met, we can even bring some of the Korbanot, some we even SHOULD do right now. But all of these Halachot are ignored because of ignorance and a desire to live in mins, pins or Monsey.


if they believe and preach that learning Torah protects the nation an that all Jews need to do is to learn Torah and somehow mystically the problems will go away then why will they be (or trying to make) demonstration of the 7th of Adar? Why are they going to do a big bittul Torah during that day? Shouldn't they be sitting in Yeshivot and learning Torah? + they are and will be stealing from the public by doing this because they are being paid to sit and learn in Yeshiva but they will be on the streets instead. Why do their Gedolim teach them to steal? + If Torah learning protects the nation why not learn Torah in order to go against this "Gezera" why doesn't their Torah protect them from them being sent to the IDF?







.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2014, 01:48:35 AM »
Oh my tag... You are losing it...

Haman said to King Achashverosh, "There is one nation, scattered and dispersed among the nations throughout the provinces of your kingdom, whose laws are unlike those of any other nation and who do not obey the laws of the King. It is not in the King's interest to tolerate them.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2014, 02:17:48 AM »
Oh my tag... You are losing it...

Haman said to King Achashverosh, "There is one nation, scattered and dispersed among the nations throughout the provinces of your kingdom, whose laws are unlike those of any other nation and who do not obey the laws of the King. It is not in the King's interest to tolerate them.

 Not germane to the discussion. Nice try.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2014, 03:57:08 PM »
Not germane to the discussion. Nice try.

More than a nice try.... It expresses my opinion of how you are dividing and bringing the evil decree onto the Jewish people... I think your recent posts have been utterly disgusting regarding hatred of fellow Jews.

You would rather blame the problems on a segment of Jewish population rather than take responsibility for them. Same thing happened in Germany when the secular Jews didn't consider nazis so bad because they were only going after the 'ultra-religious' Jews and they had nothing to worry about.


Your jumping on the bandwagon of hatred of haredim is the same kind of sinat chinam...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2014, 04:00:09 PM »
Also I consider Rabbi Mizrachi a respectable and righteous man who has many more mitzvot than you or I. Do you know how many Jews he has brought back to Torah? Do you know how hard he works? Making videos, making CD's, and touring the world to spread the message of Torah?

You on the other hand have done what? You sit and ridicule his teaching?

Shame on you! You don't have to agree with him, if you don't agree you could be civil about it rather than call his teaching lies and sickness. You don't have it in you to act civilly, as a Jew should.

Go read your Rambam and learn how a talmid chocham is supposed to behave...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2014, 04:01:15 PM »
My quote from Megillah Ester is to show you how similar you are to Haman...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2014, 04:10:23 PM »
Muman- "sinat chinam... "

  What is Sinat Hinam do you even know. BASELESS hatred . Key word, baseless.

 Him doing good work doesn't take away that what he said here (and in other things) is questionable and worse, wrong. Someone doing something correct and good doesn't give them free, unquestionable access to say and do whatever they like and have people follow him/them blindly. That is a CULT.
 
 He is a public figure and what he says publicly should and can be questioned, publicly.

 For example he said that those who don't believe in Demons are "Apikorsim", so the sources were brought to him from the Rambam directly and was asked then does that make the Rambam anapikoris, he refuses to answer.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2014, 04:12:37 PM »
  Also you don't think that when they will be making massive demonstrations (they plan to on the 7th of Adar) then that isn't hatred of other Jews? Or when they disrespect Rav Kahane or Rav Kook especially and not even refer to him as Rav Kook, but just Kook that isn't Sinat Hinam? They totally usurped the Torah from under our feet. I'm sick of tolerating the intolerant.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2014, 04:15:19 PM »
Muman- "sinat chinam... "

  What is Sinat Hinam do you even know. BASELESS hatred . Key word, baseless.

 Him doing good work doesn't take away that what he said here (and in other things) is questionable and worse, wrong. Someone doing something correct and good doesn't give them free, unquestionable access to say and do whatever they like and have people follow him/them blindly. That is a CULT.
 
 He is a public figure and what he says publicly should and can be questioned, publicly.

 For example he said that those who don't believe in Demons are "Apikorsim", so the sources were brought to him from the Rambam directly and was asked then does that make the Rambam anapikoris, he refuses to answer.

That does not justify your disrespect and your hatred...

The Torah sages often do not agree on everything. You seem to think that everyone has to agree 100% on the interpretation of things. I listen to many Rabbis and I look for the commonality between them and write off the differences.

I can point to many who disagree with Rambam... Do I think that because other sages disagree with Rambam it makes Rambam wrong? No! We study Rambam along with other great sages...

But you hear something that doesn't jive with your narrow view of Judaism and you take it upon yourself to disrespect a man who has great merit. Instead of trying to understand what he is saying you immediately rush to write a missive which trashes him. That makes you the wrong party.

And what he said is true.... According to Rambam a Apikorsis denies the oral tradition. I have posted this several times.

Demons are a part of the oral tradition. Try as you might you cannot dismiss it... I do believe that angels and demons do exist. Does that make me an apikoris according to your narrow view of Jewish belief? Hardly...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2014, 04:16:12 PM »
Do two wrongs make things right? Not at all...

Because your neighbor is acting like a boor does that make it right for you to? not according to our Torah.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2014, 04:18:06 PM »
Obviously I know what sinat chinam is... And you are exhibiting it...

You make excuses in order to hate Jews... Just because they don't act and believe like you do...

Also because they don't respect your rabbi, does that give you the right to disrespect other rabbis? Very childish...

But you were quick to post a video by Rabbi Mizrachi when he said it was not permitted to visit Uman.... I guess you like him when he says things to your liking...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2014, 04:21:41 PM »
Quote
http://www.templeinstitute.org/oral_tradition.htm

The Oral Tradition and the Tanach Are Equally Divine

The Jewish people depend on the Oral Tradition for the interpretation of the Torah. Indeed, as we have illustrated above, the Bible simply cannot be understood without it. These examples show that the written text could even be perceived as being defective unless it is supplemented by the information contained in the Oral Tradition. This is why believing in the Divine source of the Oral Tradition is so important for the Jewish people... for if it is denied that this tradition is G-d-given, this can lead to the denial of the Divine origins of the written text as well. Thus, if one does not believe in the Oral Tradition, he is regarded as one who does not accept any aspect of the Torah.

Originally, this tradition was meant to be transmitted by word of mouth only, throughout the ages. It was always handed down from master to student. Since the time of Moses, it had been passed down in this manner in every generation. This process ensured that this information was transmitted in a clear manner. Any student who had a question was always able to ask, as opposed to studying from a text which is only written-it can always be misinterpreted.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2014, 04:24:21 PM »
http://www.dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=1502&txtSearch=apikorsim

The next category discussed by the Rambam is that of "Kofrim" ("rejecters"), and consists of people who maintain one of the following three beliefs:

1) That the Torah was not transmitted in its entirety from God. Even if one denies the divine origin of a single verse or a single word of the Torah, and claims that Moshe wrote it independently, without it being dictated by the Almighty, he loses his share in the World to Come.

2) That the Rabbinic tradition of Torah She'be'al Peh (oral tradition) does not originate from God. Even if a person accepts the divine origin of the written Law, he is deemed a "Kofer" if he rejects the traditions of the Sages in explaining and applying the written Torah.

3) That the Torah or any part thereof is no longer applicable, or has been supplanted by a different law or system of laws. Christians, for example, believe in the divine origin of the Torah but claim that it has since been replaced by a new law. Anybody who maintains such a belief, or says about even a single Misva that it has been repealed or substituted with another law, has no share in the next world.



http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/dafyomi2/yevamos/insites/ye-dt-077.htm

Quote
The Rambam also writes (Hilchos Mamrim 3:2) that one who denies any part of the oral tradition (Mesorah sh'Ba'al Peh) is considered an Apikorus and we have permission to execute him ("whoever kills him has done a great Mitzvah (Asah Mitzvah Gedolah)").
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2014, 04:24:50 PM »
Dude learn how to read. It was him who put the Rambam in the category of an "apikoris" (because the Rambam wrote against the belief in Demons)
 and other wrong statements he (R Mizrachi) is making publicly.

 A challenge isn't disrespect. If he is a public figure he has to be able to answer the questions especially on things he said.

 
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2014, 04:27:49 PM »
Dude learn how to read. It was him who put the Rambam in the category of an "apikoris" and other wrong statements he is making publicly.

Dude, you are the one who needs to learn how to read...

According to Rambams own words.... One who denies the oral tradition is  considered an apikorsis...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2014, 04:29:16 PM »
Dude, you are the one who needs to learn how to read...

According to Rambams own words.... One who denies the oral tradition is  considered an apikorsis...

 According to Rambam's own words demons do not exist.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2014, 04:29:49 PM »
http://breslov.org/ask-a-breslover-are-demons-for-real/

Q: What does Judaism say about demons?

A: The Gemara speaks of them in a matter of fact way as quite real and entities to be reckoned with. The Mishnah states that they were created in the twilight of genesis (which is a subject of interpretation among the commentators). The Zohar also discusses demons, as do many other kabbalistic texts. Yet we have a tradition that the Arizal banished the demons of his era. And although some came back subsequently, the Baal Shem Tov to sent them packing. Since then — who knows?

Yet the Rambam, under the influence of the Arab-Greek rationalism of his day, basically dismissed them as imaginary, or at least inconsequential if one didn’t believe in them.

Many Modern Orthodox Jews today share the Rambam’s attitude, while Chassidim and other traditionalists believe in them, at least theologically.

Dovid Sears

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2014, 04:30:28 PM »
According to Rambam's own words demons do not exist.

But according to other sages they do exist... So which do you accept?

You are sounding more and more like a Rambamist rather than a Jew...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2014, 04:32:59 PM »
But according to other sages they do exist... So which do you accept?

You are sounding more and more like a Rambamist rather than a Jew...

 Dude I can respect someone believing in them, but then he literally disrespected those who do not with the statement of "apikoris"
 So it goes logically that if someone who does not believe in demons is an apikoris then the Rambam is an apikoris. This is logic 101. So I ask you and him, do you call the Rambam an apikoris YES OR NO (not asking if their are those who believe in demons yes or no).

 So following the Rambam doesn't make me a Jew ( I don't 100%, but those who do, this is a very serious accusation and real sinat Hinam you are espousing) then you ask to get respect?
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2014, 04:35:20 PM »
Here it is where it is said (40 seconds)

http://youtu.be/l5N8rE0dTDA?t=1h38m

 And here is the Rambam on it (demons)

sources- Commentary to Mishna Avoda Zara 4, 7.
Hilchot Avoda Zara 11; 11, 16.
The guide to the perplex 3, 46.





.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2014, 04:36:10 PM »
Haredi MK wants to possibly boycott Judea and Samaria.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/177938#.Uw-sVJt3u1s
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2014, 04:39:51 PM »
Dude I can respect someone believing in them, but then he literally disrespected those who do not with the statement of "apikoris"
 So it goes logically that if someone who does not believe in demons is an apikoris then the Rambam is an apikoris. This is logic 101. So I ask you and him, do you call the Rambam an apikoris YES OR NO (not asking if their are those who believe in demons yes or no).

 So following the Rambam doesn't make me a Jew ( I don't 100%, but those who do, this is a very serious accusation and real sinat Hinam you are espousing) then you ask to get respect?

Tag,

I am not accusing you personally of anything here.

I fully respect Rambam, love his writing and believe he did great things codifying the Halachas which we live with today. I don't seek to diminish his teaching. Heaven forbid... But I do not believe that everything Rambam writes is the full story of Jewish belief.

As you know I lean toward Chassidic belief. I associate with Chabad and have a personal love of Breslov and find their rich Kabbalistic heritage very interesting.

I would NEVER state that Rambam was an Apikorsis. It is something which I would not even think of. But I admit that there are things I don't agree with. Maybe with more study I will come to understand what he was trying to say.

While I believe in angels and demons I do not believe that they take physical form. Like the Ayin Hara (evil eye) I consider demons to be spiritual forces which drive our physical lives in some way. I try to reconcile what I believe with what Rambam appears to say.

I am sorry if I appeared to say you are not a Jew. I know that you are a Jew and I hope that you find these disagreements as nothing personal.

I do personally dislike Lapid and that (along with defending the haredim) is what drew me into this machloket with you.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2014, 04:42:02 PM »
Tag,

I will have to continue this discussion later this evening... Gotta get back to work here...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Haredi sickness and lies.
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2014, 04:54:33 PM »
  You can believe in demon's, that's your personal opinion and conclusions. I can and do respect that. What I don't respect are the type of statements that Mizrachi had made. He made and makes inflammatory statements and labels people apikorsim and such without perhaps even knowing the implications of his words. So I ask the logical conclusion if he calls the Rambam an apikoris or not, and if yes then okay, if not then why not. Why is it that every other Jew who doesn't believe it is an "apikoris" while the Rambam who writes about it is not an apikoris?
  Go to him and ask him this question. Anyway this was just 1 of the many other things in this video alone.
 Why should we (or me) as Dati-Leumi and believe in Eress Yisrael and in our Torah have to listen to these lies made in public and them inflating war against Israel and we just sit and accept it, after all its "Daas Torah" or so they claim. Why should we sit quietly when we are continually attacked, our Torah hijacked and they demand to "wage war" against and especially against Judea and Samaria Dati-Leumi Jews?
 They look down upon the Dati-Leumi and don't tolerate others, but then expect and demand to tolerate them. I say enough is enough, death to their false ideology that lead Jews to the gas chambers, that had them participate in Gush Katif, that wrecks the economy and some of them even talking about siding with the Arabs and possibly living as Dhimmis (obviously complete delusional morans, because even if the Arabs would let them live, will they pay them money to "sit and learn" as they supposedly claim, or will they make them their B^tch and make them do hard work if they have the mercy of even allowing them to live.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.