The penalty for Jews taking charity money from Gentiles

[muman613]

I hope the Am Haaretz has heard of Rambam...


http://www.torah.org/learning/mlife/LORch3-8c.html

Maimonides on Life

The Torah of the Rabbis, Part I

Chapter 3, Law 8(c)

"There are three [types of] deniers of the Torah.

(1) One who says the Torah is not from G-d. Even if he claims Moses composed a single verse or single word [of the Torah] on his own, he is [considered] a denier of the Torah.
(2) So too one who denies [the Torah's] explanation, namely the Oral Torah, or he rejects its bearers (lit., 'its tellers') as [did] Tzaddok and Bysos.
(3) One who says the Creator exchanged one commandment with another one, and that this Torah has already become annulled -- even though it was [originally] from G-d, such as [believe] the Christians and the 'Hagarites' (i.e., Muslims).

Any one of these three [is considered] a denier of the Torah."

The Rambam this week continues to enumerate the very short list of exceptions to the principle that all Israel is granted a share in the World to Come. Only people who reject Judaism's most basic principles or who are sinful beyond repair are denied a place in the hereafter.

[StarNfist]

Dude,

I don't know if you had thoughts over Shabbat & reconsidered...

In any case, Shavua Tov... life is long & we learn & get greater.

Truth is that lots of dudes who claim to be Talmidei Chachamim, learn Rambam & know the whole Shas... are really fakes, pretenders & charlatains who know nothing because they don't understand basics of Torah Judaism & Jewish Idea.

They are like some reformed who have PhDs in Judaism.

They study, quote & argue Rambam & Rashi & Ram & Gra & the Whole Gemorah with saliva fountain yet they don't understand a word that these taught.

On the subject of taking charity from Goyim....

Many Jewish lives could of been saved from sand-nazi terrorism in Israel if donations from sincere Christians & other "horrible goyim" would be graciously accepted, used properly to enhance security that is lacking, medical aid, guard dogs, equipment, training, etc.

Donno about my honorable opponents, but since I lost a dozen friends & neighbours to arab bullets, knives & explosives since 2000... after every funeral I had thoughts.

Since hords of big mouth & fat snout yids don't give a [censored]... we should accept money from "horrible" goyim.

I'm pretty sure that if all the Great Rabbonim of the past, including Rambam, would see our dead who could be saved by better defenses, even paid for by goyim, they would agree with me.

But there are lots of paid shabak snitches, leftist pigs & arab terrorist advocates in addition to stupid naiive yids who think they defend "mitzvos" by taking blood on their souls & discarding basic ethics, moral guidance & common sense.

I am very sorry, but I don't see how quoting misunderstood Chazal helps that.

[edu]

Quote from ChabadKahanist

Although I respect Rav Lior I disagree with him on this.
My reasoning is simple because if you take money from them that is less money they can spend on missionary tracts & money in your pocket.
Better in your pocket than to be spent on missionary tracts.

You have no idea ChabadKahanist how much spiritual power they get for their charity, which far outweighs what they seem to lose.
Here's one quote from the midrash about this topic

מדרש זוטא - שיר השירים (בובר) פרשה א

אלו היו בני דור המבול ואנשי סדום עושים צדקה לא היו אבודים, וכן מפורש על סדום, אף על פי שהיו בידם כל העברות לא נחתם גזר דינם אלא על שלא רצו לתן צדקה, שנאמר גאון שבעת לחם [ושלות השקט] היה לה ולבנותיה ויד עני ואביון לא החזיקה -יחזקאל ט"ז מ"ט 

Translation: If the sons of the generation of the flood and the men of Sdome (Sodom) had performed charity, they would not have perished. And thus it is explicit regarding Sdome, even though they had in their hands all the transgressions, their verdict was not sealed except on account that they did not want to give charity, as it says in Yechezkel/Ezekiel 16:49

Behold this was the iniquity of your sister Sdome: she and her daughters had pride, surfeit of bread, and abundance of idleness, and yet she did not strengthen the hand of the poor and needy...

Although the translation could be improved, I more or less relied on the Jerusalem Bible translation for the sake of ease.

[edu]

The Talmud tells us Sota 42b{Soncino Translation}

Raba expounded: As a reward for the four tears which Orpah dropped upon her mother-in-law, she
merited that four mighty warriors should issue from her; as it is said: And they lifted up their voice
and wept again.

Elsewhere the Talmud explains who were these 4 warriors? Golyat {Goliath} Sof, Madon, and Yishbi B'Nov

We see how kindness shown by the Gentiles can come back to haunt us

[ChabadKahanist]

Quote from ChabadKahanistYou have no idea ChabadKahanist how much spiritual power they get for their charity, which far outweighs what they seem to lose.
Here's one quote from the midrash about this topic

מדרש זוטא - שיר השירים (בובר) פרשה א

אלו היו בני דור המבול ואנשי סדום עושים צדקה לא היו אבודים, וכן מפורש על סדום, אף על פי שהיו בידם כל העברות לא נחתם גזר דינם אלא על שלא רצו לתן צדקה, שנאמר גאון שבעת לחם [ושלות השקט] היה לה ולבנותיה ויד עני ואביון לא החזיקה -יחזקאל ט"ז מ"ט 

Translation: If the sons of the generation of the flood and the men of Sdome (Sodom) had performed charity, they would not have perished. And thus it is explicit regarding Sdome, even though they had in their hands all the transgressions, their verdict was not sealed except on account that they did not want to give charity, as it says in Yechezkel/Ezekiel 16:49Although the translation could be improved, I more or less relied on the Jerusalem Bible translation for the sake of ease.

I see your point

[edu]

StarNfist raised several interesting points concerning this issue.
Here is one of them. He said:

In general, charity from Gentiles been accepted by Jews with gratitude through the ages. King Solomon took charity from King of Tyre to build Beis HaMikdosh.

I don't believe the precedent of the King of Tyre can be used as a proof.
1 Shlomo (Solomon) made a business deal with the King of Tyre. It wasn't charity.
2 Although this is an issue hotly debated by the Rishonim because at the time of the 2nd Temple we see that the Jewish people did not want donations from the local populace, some of the Rishonim (under certain conditions) view donations for the Temple from Gentiles as an extension of the rule that we take free will offerings from them and view it as a different category than charity. I repeat this point is in dispute and I don't want to take sides at this point.
3 Some Rishonim held that the King of Tyre was a righteous gentile (Ger Toshav) and therefore obviously different from Christian Missionaries.
4 There is also a dispute among our Rabbis was it a good thing that Shlomo (Solomon) got help from the King of Tyre or was it harmful.