Deli that seells Pork burnt this morning in Netanya

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Ze'ev...

You do have a point. I think we are probably coming onto a phiosophical chicken-and-egg question: are self-hating Jews all evil and therefore deserving of death or are they only not yet enlightened? I don't think there will be any answer to this that is satisfactory to all parties. The Bible says, in both Testaments (if you are a Christian) that all sinners deserve death. G-d chooses not to give everyone their just desserts because he is merciful and slow to anger and wants to allow as many people as possible to come to him. Will all of the wicked come to him? No; not even close. But he does leave the window open, even knowing what the final outcome will be with the vast majority of them.

So let's try to implement this in some real-life hypothetical cases:

1: Do I believe that a self-hating Bolshevik couple from Tel Aviv who vote for Kadima and want to see Jews kicked out of all of Judea and Samaria deserve death? Yes.

2: Would I be willing to give them a chance to be exposed to the light of Kahanism and repent? Yes.

3: If they do not repent, and continue to resist Kahanism and do all in their power to stop Chaim from making aliyah and JTF being elected in Israel, should they be put to death? Absolutely.

[Ehud]

Ze'ev...

You do have a point. I think we are probably coming onto a phiosophical chicken-and-egg question: are self-hating Jews all evil and therefore deserving of death or are they only not yet enlightened? I don't think there will be any answer to this that is satisfactory to all parties. The Bible says, in both Testaments (if you are a Christian) that all sinners deserve death. G-d chooses not to give everyone their just desserts because he is merciful and slow to anger and wants to allow as many people as possible to come to him. Will all of the wicked come to him? No; not even close. But he does leave the window open, even knowing what the final outcome will be with the vast majority of them.

So let's try to implement this in some real-life hypothetical cases:

1: Do I believe that a self-hating Bolshevik couple from Tel Aviv who vote for Kadima and want to see Jews kicked out of all of Judea and Samaria deserve death? Yes.

2: Would I be willing to give them a chance to be exposed to the light of Kahanism and repent? Yes.

3: If they do not repent, and continue to resist Kahanism and do all in their power to stop Chaim from making aliyah and JTF being elected in Israel, should they be put to death? Absolutely.

Ok.  Your first example basically describes about 60% of Jewish Israelis.  I think it's safe to say that 60% of Jews vote for Kadima or worse political parties.  At least 50% of Jewish Israelis want Jews out of Judea and Samaria as part of a final "peace deal".  You can dispute those statistics with me, of course they are  rough, but I think that they are indicative of the general situation. 

I don't know if most of them would do all in their power to stop Chaim from making aliyah, most of those people aren't going to do anything to prevent him from coming into the country but I think that at least (I think I'm being conservative here) 50% of Jewish Israelis would prevent a Kahanist government from taking power in Israel.  If you think that those people should all be put to death, you are basically advocating a genocide of nearly 3 million Jews. 

That is something I could never support.

[newman]

Ze'ev...

You do have a point. I think we are probably coming onto a phiosophical chicken-and-egg question: are self-hating Jews all evil and therefore deserving of death or are they only not yet enlightened? I don't think there will be any answer to this that is satisfactory to all parties. The Bible says, in both Testaments (if you are a Christian) that all sinners deserve death. G-d chooses not to give everyone their just desserts because he is merciful and slow to anger and wants to allow as many people as possible to come to him. Will all of the wicked come to him? No; not even close. But he does leave the window open, even knowing what the final outcome will be with the vast majority of them.

So let's try to implement this in some real-life hypothetical cases:

1: Do I believe that a self-hating Bolshevik couple from Tel Aviv who vote for Kadima and want to see Jews kicked out of all of Judea and Samaria deserve death? Yes.

2: Would I be willing to give them a chance to be exposed to the light of Kahanism and repent? Yes.

3: If they do not repent, and continue to resist Kahanism and do all in their power to stop Chaim from making aliyah and JTF being elected in Israel, should they be put to death? Absolutely.

Ok.  Your first example basically describes about 60% of Jewish Israelis.  I think it's safe to say that 60% of Jews vote for Kadima or worse political parties.  At least 50% of Jewish Israelis want Jews out of Judea and Samaria as part of a final "peace deal".  You can dispute those statistics with me, of course they are  rough, but I think that they are indicative of the general situation. 

I don't know if most of them would do all in their power to stop Chaim from making aliyah, most of those people aren't going to do anything to prevent him from coming into the country but I think that at least (I think I'm being conservative here) 50% of Jewish Israelis would prevent a Kahanist government from taking power in Israel.  If you think that those people should all be put to death, you are basically advocating a genocide of nearly 3 million Jews. 

That is something I could never support.

Ze'ev, isn't it fair to say that out of the 50% who support disngagement that at least half will change their mind when it doesn't work?

[Ehud]

Well, we disengaged from Gaza only to be met with daily qassam fire into southern Israel and that didn't seem to convert a big chunk of the disengagement supporters.  That doesn't seem to stop most Israelis and their support of a pull-out from Judea and Samaria and the harassment of the settlers there. 

Most Israelis know that The "Palestinians" rejected the partition plan, rejected the Oslo accords, reject everything, hear Hamas every day saying that they want all of Israel and nothing less, see Hezballah and Hamas terrorists launching rockets into pre-1967 Israel. 

They see these things and they still think that a "land for peace" will create a long-lasting solution.  What else do people need to see that will indicate to them that this plan won't work?

[newman]

Well, we disengaged from Gaza only to be met with daily qassam fire into southern Israel and that didn't seem to convert a big chunk of the disengagement supporters.  That doesn't seem to stop most Israelis and their support of a pull-out from Judea and Samaria and the harassment of the settlers there. 

Most Israelis know that The "PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis" rejected the partition plan, rejected the Oslo accords, reject everything, hear Hamas every day saying that they want all of Israel and nothing less, see Hezballah and Hamas terrorists launching rockets into pre-1967 Israel. 

They see these things and they still think that a "land for peace" will create a long-lasting solution.  What else do people need to see that will indicate to them that this plan won't work?

That's discouraging. It means near 50% of Israeli Jews have incurable madness.

[aC23]

If the suspect is religious (and guilty), I would be ashamed of the act. Lighting a fire on Shabbat is a complete sin. Even asking a Gentile to do it is disallowed. I am all for burning these pork selling delis down, as long as it isn't done on Shabbat

Shavua tov all

[Shlomo]

It is possible he didn't do it. "The suspect denied the allegations"

I know a few other "buildings" in Israel that I wouldn't mind watching burn down.

[newman]

It is possible he didn't do it. "The suspect denied the allegations"

I know a few other "buildings" in Israel that I wouldn't mind watching burn down.

Like the one beginning with a 'k', for instance?

[Lubab]

There are haredi Jews in Israel that frequently violate the Shabbat to harrass and otherwise harm Shabbat violators.

If this sounds like lunacy to you-it is.

They've created a new religion where bashing non-religious people for not keeping halacha is more imporantant that keeping halacha.

I'm not saying the Shabbath violator is right either.

It's a situation where all parties invovled are wrong.

[Dr. Dan]

Listen, the only real reason why pork and pigs should be allowed in Israel is to get rid of the Muzzies!

[newman]

There are haredi Jews in Israel that frequently violate the Shabbat to harrass and otherwise harm Shabbat violators.

If this sounds like lunacy to you-it is.

They've created a new religion where bashing non-religious people for not keeping halacha is more imporantant that keeping halacha.

I'm not saying the Shabbath violator is right either.

It's a situation where all parties invovled are wrong.

Are the charedim violating Shabbos by chucking rocks?....even in good cause?

[aC23]

Absolutely, and I hate it when they do. It's disgustingly hypocritical and completely ASSUR. Not to mention a massive chillul Hashem.

I don't care if they're right or wrong, what annoys me greatly is that they do these things in the name of religion. REAL Torah observant Jews would NEVER violate Shabbat for ANY reason (other than a life-threatening one, of course)

[newman]

Absolutely, and I hate it when they do. It's disgustingly hypocritical and completely ASSUR. Not to mention a massive chillul Hashem.

I don't care if they're right or wrong, what annoys me greatly is that they do these things in the name of religion. REAL Torah observant Jews would NEVER violate Shabbat for ANY reason (other than a life-threatening one, of course)

I've heard reliable testimony of Jewish babies being killed or injured when rocks from these charedim go through car windows. That's inexcusable.

[Lubab]

There are haredi Jews in Israel that frequently violate the Shabbat to harrass and otherwise harm Shabbat violators.

If this sounds like lunacy to you-it is.

They've created a new religion where bashing non-religious people for not keeping halacha is more imporantant that keeping halacha.

I'm not saying the Shabbath violator is right either.

It's a situation where all parties invovled are wrong.

Are the charedim violating Shabbos by chucking rocks?....even in good cause?

Yes. Your not even allowed to move rocks at all on Shabbos.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

There are haredi Jews in Israel that frequently violate the Shabbat to harrass and otherwise harm Shabbat violators.

If this sounds like lunacy to you-it is.

They've created a new religion where bashing non-religious people for not keeping halacha is more imporantant that keeping halacha.

I'm not saying the Shabbath violator is right either.

It's a situation where all parties invovled are wrong.

I agree with you completely, Lubab. A lot of these so-called ultra-religious Jews don't even work and devote their lives to this utter nonsense. Yet they hate JTF and Kahanism and even Zionism itself. Makes no sense to me. They are cuckoo.