Author Topic: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians  (Read 5339 times)

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Offline kahaneloyalist

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Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« on: March 26, 2014, 03:52:35 PM »
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.579182

Support for Israel is weakening among evangelical Christians, prompting a new struggle for the hearts and minds of younger members of America’s largest pro-Israel demographic group.

While hard numbers are not available, evangelical leaders on both sides of the divide on Israel agree that members of the millennial generation do not share their parents’ passion for the Jewish state; many are seeking some form of evenhandedness when approaching the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

“What is happening is that the hard line of Christian Zionists was not successfully passed forward to the next generation, because it was based on theological themes that are now being questioned by younger evangelicals,” said David Gushee, professor of Christian ethics and director of the Center for Theology and Public Life at Mercer University in Atlanta.

The grip of Christian Zionists over young evangelicals has been loosening for several years, according to observers within the community. But in recent weeks, the leading evangelical pro-Israel organization, Christians United for Israel, has set off alarm bells in articles and interviews decrying the inroads made by pro-Palestinian activists into the evangelical community. CUFI’s leaders are calling for a new strategy to block them.

“The only way of solving a problem is when people know about it,” said CUFI’s executive director, David Brog, who has been leading the effort to win back millennial evangelicals. “This is the best way to rally our troops.”

Brog penned a lengthy article, published in the spring edition of Middle East Quarterly, in which he detailed what he views as a growing phenomenon and the reasons behind it. Titled “The End of Evangelical Support for Israel?” the article laments that “questioning Christian support for the Jewish state is fast becoming a key way for millennials to demonstrate Christian compassion and bona fides.” Brog argues that younger evangelicals are now “in play” and their support for Israel can no longer be taken for granted.

This conclusion is based primarily on gut feelings and anecdotal data. In June 2011, the Pew Research Center conducted a survey among evangelical leaders convened in Cape Town, South Africa, for the third Lausanne Congress of World Evangelization. The findings indicated lower support for Israel than previously believed. A majority of American evangelical leaders (49%) expressed neutrality when asked if they sympathize more with Israelis or with Palestinians. Thirty percent expressed support for Israelis, 13% for the Palestinians.

The survey polled only leaders who participated in this international conference and did not offer insight into the views of rank-and-file evangelicals. But it highlighted the fact that only a minority within the evangelical leadership today hold strong pro-Israel views when it comes to Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and attendant conflict with the Palestinians.

Still, Christian Zionism is by far the largest organized voice on Middle East issues among evangelicals. CUFI, led by the Rev. John Hagee, founder of Cornerstone Church, in San Antonio, has 1.6 million registered supporters and a staff of 25 full-time employees. With an operating budget of more than $7 million, CUFI organizes dozens of pro-Israel events throughout the country and an annual Washington conference that brings together evangelical activists and politicians.

CUFI’s leaders are now trying to mobilize funders and supporters to confront the shift among younger members of their community. The challenge they face is made up of individuals, campus activists and professors, small organizations and even documentary films that depict Israel as encroaching on Christian freedom of faith in the Holy Land.

On university campuses, pro-Palestinian Christians have seen some success in the face of CUFI’s more established 120-chapter campus operation. Activists in Illinois’s Wheaton College, a leading Christian school, protested a planned CUFI event on campus in 2009; in Tulsa, Okla., Oral Roberts University has appointed a harsh critic of Israel to its board of trustees, and at Bethel University, in Minnesota, President Jay Barnes visited Israel and the Palestinian territories on a trip that changed participants’ views on the conflict. Barnes’s wife, Barbara Barnes, published a poem after the trip, in which she wrote: “Apartheid has become a way of life. I believe God mourns.”

American evangelicals sympathetic to the Palestinians are also bringing co-religionists to Israel and the West Bank for tours and conferences. This week, Bethlehem Bible College and the Bethlehem-based Holy Land Trust are hosting their third “Christ at the Checkpoint” conference. Speakers at the gathering, which presents a Palestinian perspective on Israel’s occupation of the West Bank for Christians, include Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish, the Gaza physician who worked closely with both Arabs and Israeli Jews until his three daughters were killed in their home by Israeli tank fire during the 2008 Gaza military campaign; William Wilson, the president of Oral Roberts University; and Gary Burge, a theology professor at Wheaton College and author of the book, “Whose Promise? What Christians Are Not Being Told About Israel and the Palestinians.”

The conference’s 12-point “manifesto” strongly condemns “all forms of violence” and warns against the “stereotyping of all faith forms that betray God’s commandment to love our neighbors and enemies.” It also rejects “any exclusive claim to the land of the Bible in the name of God” and states that “racial ethnicity alone does not guarantee the benefits of the Abrahamic Covenant.”

For some on Christian college campuses, the appeal of pro-Palestinian views may be part of a general trend among young evangelicals to question the conservative ways of their parents’ generation. Some students are pursuing a theological understanding of their religion that is more progressive on social issues. Polls conducted in recent years indicate that young white evangelicals are less conservative on issues of same-sex marriage, abortion and contraception. They are also less aligned with the Republican Party. This same trend of political diversification may be taking place on international issues.

CUFI’s concern, as voiced by Brog in his article, is about the younger generation of evangelical leaders; unlike such figures as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, they are not vocal about the issue of Israel. He describes the new generation of evangelical opinion makers as a “largely well-coiffed and fashionably dressed bunch dedicated to marketing Christianity to a skeptical generation by making it cool, compassionate, and less overtly political.”

One of the organizations gaining the most attention on this issue is the Telos Group, a Washington-based not-for-profit set up five years ago that describes itself as “pro-Israeli, pro-Palestinian, pro-American, and pro-peace.” In an interview on Glenn Beck’s “TheBlaze TV,” Brog singled out Telos, saying: “This is not your parents’ anti-Israel group. These guys are savvy, these guys are smart.”

Telos, which focuses a significant part of its work on faith communities, has to date taken 43 groups on tours of Israel and the Palestinian territories. President and co-founder Gregory Khalil said the group intentionally engages with a variety of Israelis and Palestinians on their trips. “I actually think David Brog could learn a lot about Israel if he would join one of our trips,” Khalil said, arguing that Brog mischaracterized the work of Telos.

But while the budding debate in the evangelical world over Israel is real, its proportions may be overstated. “We’re a tiny organization,” Khalil said of his group, which has only two staff members. Other publications and groups cited by CUFI as pro-Palestinian are also much smaller than CUFI’s own pro-Israel operation.

CUFI is not waiting for them to grow larger. In January, at a Jewish fundraising event, the group presented its plan to take two groups a year of young evangelical opinion leaders to Israel. “We need to use the same tool to fight back,” CUFI declared in its pitch for Jewish donor support. The group is also launching speaking tours on campuses, and intends to invest in videos and social media activity that will monitor Christian influencers and “confront them when they cross the line.”

The glaring precedent that pro-Israel evangelicals cite to justify their approach is the path taken by the mainline Protestant churches. In the past, many were sympathetic to Israel, or at worst neutral. But some have since become a stronghold of pro-Palestinian views in the American Christian world. A few groups, such as the Presbyterians, have been leading the way in calls for divestment and boycott against Israel.

But Gushee argued that evangelicals are unlikely to take this path. The mainline Protestant churches today may be aggressively anti-Israel, he said, but the shift among evangelicals “is not from pro-Israel to anti-Israel, but from pro-Israel to a more balanced approach.”
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2014, 05:53:02 PM »
Most people claiming to be Christians never were. This has been the case throughout history. The issues in question may change, but real believers will always be a remnant, a minority.

That being said, I'm surprised Haaretz cares. This Goebbelsian propaganda paper has always been teaming up with the most ferocious Jew-haters the world has had to offer.

Offline muman613

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2014, 06:02:19 PM »
Most people claiming to be Christians never were. This has been the case throughout history. The issues in question may change, but real believers will always be a remnant, a minority.

That being said, I'm surprised Haaretz cares. This Goebbelsian propaganda paper has always been teaming up with the most ferocious Jew-haters the world has had to offer.


Yeah, every 'Christian' thinks he is the 'real Christian' and the others are fakes... To me there is no such thing as a 'real' Christian, they all invented their own churches...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2014, 06:35:07 PM »

Yeah, every 'Christian' thinks he is the 'real Christian' and the others are fakes... To me there is no such thing as a 'real' Christian, they all invented their own churches...
There is actually a specific definition of Christian in the NT, but obviously going into that is outside the scope of JTF. The issue is that for most people it is a banner, a label, a point of cultural identity rather than a personal conversion of heart.

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2014, 09:40:26 PM »
Evangelical Christians hate Ha'aretz and Ha'aretz hates them. Ha'aeretz likes Christians such as John Ba'al Kerry.


Offline Lisa

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2014, 09:57:40 PM »
Pro-Jew Christians are a good thing, and I am thankful for them, but unfortunately they are only small and recent splinter movements within Christendom, which has traditionally embraced replacement theology, which naturally leads to anti-Semitism at the end of the day.

When you say recent splinter, how recently do you mean?  What do you think caused it?

Offline muman613

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2014, 10:07:59 PM »
When you say recent splinter, how recently do you mean?  What do you think caused it?

The establishment of the state of Israel. Before this virtually all of Christianity was against the Jewish people. Some branches of Christianity felt threatened by the rise of the Jewish state, while others saw it as a step toward the rapture (involving the return of their messiah, and the death of the Jewish people who reject him)..



You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2014, 10:35:42 PM »
Yawn. Does this mean they'll pack up Jews for Idolatry and all their other movements to convert Jews now?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Lisa

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2014, 10:58:03 PM »
Well ever since Protestantism started, there have been many different churches arising who claim to take their doctrine from the Christian Bible alone, and have no unified tradition, so you have many different people interpreting it in different ways.  So in any given Protestant church you have a mish-mash of different philosophies--for example some believe you have to be baptized and some don't, some believe you have to speak in tongues and some don't, and some believe people have free will and some don't, etc.  Now one of the Christian philosophies that came about in the 1800's was Dispensationalism, which says that the Jews are still God's chosen people and Christians are a separate covenant altogether, while the church historically said that only Christians (both Gentiles and Jews who believe in Jesus) were God's true people because the covenant with the followers of Jesus made the national covenant with the Jews obsolete because all the promises were fulfilled "spiritually".  I'm sure with the establishment of the State of Israel, more people came to believe in the dispensationalist philosophy.  People from a variety of churches who have been influenced by this philosophy tend to be the most pro-Israel.

Thanks Dan.

So what brought about this "Dispensationlist" philosophy?

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2014, 12:19:12 AM »
The explanation is that the majority of those who have called themselves Christians throughout history have not truly been. Would a moral person whose heart has been regenerated support Nazism and genocide and discrimination?

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2014, 03:24:01 PM »
There were lots of "moral" people like the Greeks and Romans that did, and lots of people with "regenerated hearts", even ones that were "reborn" like the Assyrians that did. Anyways, yes, you're completely correct, the real true actual version of Catholicism came into being recently and was always the true one.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2014, 03:35:21 PM »
There were lots of "moral" people like the Greeks and Romans that did, and lots of people with "regenerated hearts", even ones that were "reborn" like the Assyrians that did. Anyways, yes, you're completely correct, the real true actual version of Catholicism came into being recently and was always the true one.
Is it not obvious who is really a righteous person and who isn't? History is full of evil people and of phony "good" people.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2014, 03:50:56 PM »
Is it not obvious who is really a righteous person and who isn't? History is full of evil people and of phony "good" people.

Yet everyone says their beliefs makes them good people. Good people x= good ideology. Some people are good in spite of things. You look at the majority to determine the effect of the belief.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2014, 06:20:47 PM »
Yet everyone says their beliefs makes them good people. Good people x= good ideology. Some people are good in spite of things. You look at the majority to determine the effect of the belief.
Most Republicans are phony RINO sellouts, most Jews are self-hating, most "conservatives" today would have been called extreme liberals 50 years ago, etc. Most people are just no damn good, period.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2014, 06:35:43 PM »
The "good" people in any given religion do not necessarily represent the authentic believers in that religion.  For example, it is great that there are some Muslims who oppose jihad, but those are not really the true believers in Islam when you consider Islamic sources and the historic interpretation of those sources.
The "good" Muslims are generally the secular ones, or those who have deliberately chosen to overlook or ignore the parts of the Koran they don't like and thus have basically created a new religion; that's the difference.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2014, 06:36:08 PM »
The "good" people in any given religion do not necessarily represent the authentic believers in that religion.  For example, it is great that there are some Muslims who oppose jihad, but those are not really the true believers in Islam when you consider Islamic sources and the historic interpretation of those sources.

 I think that any religion/ideology can be interpreted and applied in whichever way one wishes. True many times their is the general ideology, but people usually don't read, understand or care about the whole. Perhaps Judaism and the Torah as well. It wouldn't represent the whole truth but people find whatever they want to find within anything.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline christians4jews

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2014, 07:16:56 PM »
In Christianity there is no such thing as good as they are "none good but god".

Offline muman613

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2014, 08:00:59 PM »
Most Republicans are phony RINO sellouts, most Jews are self-hating, most "conservatives" today would have been called extreme liberals 50 years ago, etc. Most people are just no damn good, period.

And most Christians are rotten scoundrels..

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline serbian army

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2014, 08:16:23 PM »
I don't know about other churches but in every Serbian church there is admiration for Jewish people. In January at family celebration our local priest spoke about how we should look upon Jews and donate more for our church. According to him God has given many Jews a very good fortunes because of their willingness to donate. At many seminars priests compare what Jerusalem means for the Jews and what Kosovo means for us.
Serbia will never surrender Kosovo to the breakaway province's ethnic Albanian majority or trade its territory for European Union or NATO membership,

Offline Lisa

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2014, 08:34:24 PM »
And most Christians are rotten scoundrels..

I must be missing something.

Offline muman613

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2014, 09:35:18 PM »
I must be missing something.

Quote
Most Republicans are phony RINO sellouts, most Jews are self-hating, most "conservatives" today would have been called extreme liberals 50 years ago, etc. Most people are just no damn good, period.

So if MOST Jews are self-hating so too it is correct to say MOST Christians are rotten scoundrels...

I think it is an overstatement to say MOST Jews are self-hating. If fact most Jews I know are not... But I guess if we are going to generalize, we may as well GENERALIZE!

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lisa

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2014, 10:33:16 PM »
Oh, I see.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2014, 01:39:54 AM »
Most Republicans are phony RINO sellouts, most Jews are self-hating, most "conservatives" today would have been called extreme liberals 50 years ago, etc. Most people are just no damn good, period.

Today they are. Historically, more Republicans were righteous. Most people aren't good. That I agree with. Remember though, you're talking to someone who was raised in this religion, and I have family who still try to argue with me about the religion. I started out in a xtian communist "apocalyptic" sex cult, which wasn't accepted by the mainstream, I went to the best Jesuit school in the section of the continent, and later discovered real true actual xtianity with Evangelicals. I also had a Mormon friend, and there isn't really many denominations of the religion I can't tell you every single detail about. Without Muman and Tag, I would have been somewhere else today, likely terrible.

What I can tell you is that the "real" versions of the religion deny certain parts of their scripture, the mainstream ones add their own proudly made-up books to it, the outcasts combine it with other religions and ideologies, and the book itself, no one follows, since it's pretty confusing (I'm being as undivisive as possible).

If the creator of the universe came down and said it wasn't true, most people would be back at it the next day, since it simply works well with group mentality (not the term I'm actually thinking of).

Muman, most Jews are secular, and by their religion, have no share in the world to come, so they're at least ignorant or insane, and most of the ones you see on the tube are self-hating. Historically, most Jews were 100% religious, and many of the most positively influential people of the world came from them.

My point in all this is that in this generation, everything is the opposite. Except muslims. They're still the same as they started.
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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2014, 02:03:49 AM »
And most Christians are rotten scoundrels..
Yeah, you're right. I acknowledged that; we all did.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Israel is losing its grip on evangelical Christians
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2014, 02:05:11 AM »
I don't know about other churches but in every Serbian church there is admiration for Jewish people. In January at family celebration our local priest spoke about how we should look upon Jews and donate more for our church. According to him God has given many Jews a very good fortunes because of their willingness to donate. At many seminars priests compare what Jerusalem means for the Jews and what Kosovo means for us.
Yes, that's true. You don't need to be a dispensationalist evangelical to support Jews. Many Christians that are not of that background do too.