Author Topic: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz  (Read 1906 times)

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Offline muman613

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Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« on: April 20, 2014, 04:33:10 PM »
This story is laughable, in my opinion.

The so-called 'Messianic Jews' who I have no problem calling Christians (as they are about as Jewish as a ham sandwich) have started a new propaganda campaign claiming that Jesus was with us in Aushwitz.

Jews went to the gas chambers because they were Jewish, not because they were Christian (as a matter of fact they would have survived the Third Reich if they had been born Christian)... Jews are Jewish because they do not accept that Jesus, the messiah of Christianity, is the Moshiach which we are waiting for. Despite all the attempts to missionise us with gospel, despite all the attempts to forcibly convert us to believe that their messiah is Moshiach, we have remained a Jewish people faithful in the G-d of our forefathers, and as a result we have been callously oppressed and scourged by the nations.

The Jewish people are the Suffering Servant of Issiah...

Jesus was not with us in Aushwitz, rather Hashem was there and he had his purpose in dealing with us in the way he did. We don't need any Jesus to atone for our sins, we are each responsible for our actions and we each are required to do teshuva to repair our connection to Hashem.



http://www.israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2014/04/outrageous-jews-for-jesus-makes.html

Outrageous: 'Jews for Jesus' makes promotional video that puts Jesus in Auschwitz

A video that is bound to offend every practicing Jew has been posted by 'Jews for Jesus' (an oxymoronic title if there has ever been one - it's a contradiction to be a Jew and believe that Jesus was the son of God) that places none other than Jesus himself in Auschwitz.

Let's go to the videotape.

Jewish Israel summed it up well:

No words for this desecration of our people created as a promotional clip for Jews for Jesus.

JPost adds:

If messianic Jews were seeking to court controversy, they certainly found the most provocative way of doing that – releasing a video depicting Jesus bearing the cross just as he is about to be sent to the gas chambers at Auschwitz.

Nauseating. Simply nauseating.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2014, 05:02:18 PM »
Auschwitz came about because there is sin in the world and satan will always have his hand against the Chosen People.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2014, 05:17:04 PM »
I think the Nazis would have put him in there, especially if he identified at all with his Jewish heritage, which He did.

A lot of Christians were killed by the Nazis too but they tend to be forgotten.

I don't think that advertising campaigns should deliberately put up things that would cause more strife though.

Offline muman613

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2014, 05:19:52 PM »
I think the Nazis would have put him in there, especially if he identified at all with his Jewish heritage, which He did.

A lot of Christians were killed by the Nazis too but they tend to be forgotten.

I don't think that advertising campaigns should deliberately put up things that would cause more strife though.

The church, in his name, and with his inspiration, persecuted the Jewish people... This was obviously a provocation against the Jewish people. Many righteous Jews died in the Shoah, nothing makes 'him' more righteous than the others...

The Jews were a primary target of the Nazi regime as revealed in the writings of hitler, yemach shemo. His intention of eradicating world Jewry was paramount in the design of the Third Reich. They did not have a 'Final Solution' for the Christians...



You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2014, 05:22:40 PM »
I think the Nazis would have put him in there, especially if he identified at all with his Jewish heritage, which He did.

A lot of Christians were killed by the Nazis too but they tend to be forgotten.

I don't think that advertising campaigns should deliberately put up things that would cause more strife though.
Those are all excellent points Rubystars. The Shoah is most associated with Jews because Jews are the only group that the Nazis set out to totally and completely exterminate without any survivors. It wasn't specifically targeting Christians. Phony "Christians" that supported Sh*tler were spared. (Of course, any real Christian would have been resisting Nazism.)

Muman, I don't understand how Jesus inspired the Holocaust...

Offline muman613

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2014, 05:29:15 PM »
Those are all excellent points Rubystars. The Shoah is most associated with Jews because Jews are the only group that the Nazis set out to totally and completely exterminate without any survivors. It wasn't specifically targeting Christians. Phony "Christians" that supported Sh*tler were spared. (Of course, any real Christian would have been resisting Nazism.)

Muman, I don't understand how Jesus inspired the Holocaust...

LSDBR,

Did I say he inspired it? I don't think so.

But as I have stated many times here, and it seems people didn't listen, Christianity did inspire a lot of antisemitism. Did Jesus say this, or say that? I don't know what he said, but I know that the NT has many passages which have inspired Jew hatred.

Those who have established churches in his name have done great sins against the Jewish people. I am not, once again, making claims against Christianity today... But there are historical examples of these so-called 'fake' Christians of the Lutheran and other denominations who have used your messiah as a sword to oppress the Jews in the four corners of exile.

Hashem says to not accept the G-ds of the nations, that they will try to force us to worship their gods... These things have come true, and we still stand strong against those who attempt to sway our worship.

What this post was meant as was as an attack against 'messianic Jews' who are acting as deceivers, as missionizers and as pursuers of Jewish blood. What the Christian messiah means to an average Christian is not my concern, as each person is free to choose how to relate to his creator.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline White Israelite

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2014, 06:23:31 PM »
They couldn't kill the Jews physically so they tried to kill us spiritually with their missionizing. Don't fall into this Jews for Jesus stuff. They are Christian and use deception to turn Jews away from Judaism. If anyone has ever been a victim of messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus please go on YouTube eand watch Jews for Judaism many Jews have been victims and have gone through Baal teshuva and realized they were deceived. Christians are not our enemies but missionary movements and Jews who turn away are and it is important to know the deceptive tactics missionaries use.

Offline mord

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2014, 06:12:19 AM »
In any event he would have been killed for 2 reasons.He never thought of himself as anything but a Jew.2 he was genetically a Jew.Does that make the movie less bad no
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline nessuno

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2014, 08:30:17 AM »
Jews for Jesus  :::D
That always makes me laugh.
Just like the hippie Hari Krishna movement.  :::D

Those are the people standing on the corners in New York City....annoying everybody walking by.
I wouldn't even acknowledge their stupidity.






Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2014, 10:15:24 AM »
I've felt more disconnected from this forum over time because of the fact that Christians believing in basic Christian doctrine such as Jesus providing a way to receive forgiveness for sins, are looked down upon so badly by so many members.

Nobody is forcing anybody to accept Jesus as their Savior even if they were missionizing (and I haven't seen anybody on the forum missionizing). I don't agree with coercive or deceptive methods of missionizing but simply sharing the gospel with the entire world is a basic Christian doctrine which is not stupid or evil. When someone becomes a sincere Christian they become one of my brothers or sisters and I don't like it when they are talked about as if they're scum on the bottom of your shoes.

I haven't felt like posting very much because some really grievous things were never apologized for (just had lame excuses given for them), even by very prominent people. Some people are egotistical and believe they can never, ever do anything wrong.

No Muman I'm not addressing this to you although you've posted your share of things that didn't sit well with me either this isn't about you.

I'm also not going to get into a long, drawn-out discussion over this.

I'm not going to give fuel to antis by listing off my grievances in a public venue.

I just want to say that I hope I feel like getting back into the forum more when it comes closer to the election times again. 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 10:33:40 AM by Rubystars »

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2014, 12:07:32 PM »
I really like Mord's response.

Offline White Israelite

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2014, 12:09:17 PM »
I've felt more disconnected from this forum over time because of the fact that Christians believing in basic Christian doctrine such as Jesus providing a way to receive forgiveness for sins, are looked down upon so badly by so many members.

Nobody is forcing anybody to accept Jesus as their Savior even if they were missionizing (and I haven't seen anybody on the forum missionizing). I don't agree with coercive or deceptive methods of missionizing but simply sharing the gospel with the entire world is a basic Christian doctrine which is not stupid or evil. When someone becomes a sincere Christian they become one of my brothers or sisters and I don't like it when they are talked about as if they're scum on the bottom of your shoes.

I haven't felt like posting very much because some really grievous things were never apologized for (just had lame excuses given for them), even by very prominent people. Some people are egotistical and believe they can never, ever do anything wrong.

No Muman I'm not addressing this to you although you've posted your share of things that didn't sit well with me either this isn't about you.

I'm also not going to get into a long, drawn-out discussion over this.

I'm not going to give fuel to antis by listing off my grievances in a public venue.

I just want to say that I hope I feel like getting back into the forum more when it comes closer to the election times again.

I am sorry to hear that you feel this way Ruby. I have always had respect and love for our Christian friends and I do not have any issues with what righteous Gentiles believe in, there are different forms of Christians, there are righteous Christians who believe in good morals and following the bible, many who support Israel and the covenant with the Jews, there are people who call themselves Christians who hate Israel and the Jews and use replacement theology and say we broke the covenant or claim we descend from the serpent and eve and claim we can never have salvation, and then there are groups of Christians who may support Israel and Jews but the intention is to eventually convert the Jews.

Some groups may be doing it out of ignorance of other Jews, but many missionaries that target Jews comes in huge form of messianic groups that pretend to be Jewish and say jews are under the law but are required to accept Jesus as the ultimate blood sacrifice while following parts of the Torah, this is impossible in our beliefs because Jews actually do not require blood to be used as a sacrifice and we do not believe that Jesus fulfilled prophecies with his time on earth which is why we do not accept him as messiah but messianics use mistranslations from the Hebrew of Jeremiah, Isaiah and others to try to point to Jesus being the Jewish messiah when they are not.

Other Christians try to convert jews to be used to bring other jews to Christianity as a token member, I know many people this has happened too and it's caused many jews to lose contact with their family, it's lead to spiritual conflict, and confusion.

It's not so much an issue with what others believe but it's the deception and tactics that many missionaries use to turn jews away from being Jewish, especially when it comes to twisting words in the tanakh and the Torah and we are committing a grave sin if we turn away from this.

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/prooftext10is53.html

Ruby I appreciate that many Christians are supporters of Jews and Israel but just like Christians, we have people in the world who claim to be Jewish and do many bad things that do not represent judaism. It's the same with Christianity, when someone uses Jesus or the cross to spread misinformation or to do evil things while claiming to be a Christian, then it is not their core beliefs.

Offline White Israelite

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2014, 12:11:39 PM »
I also posted this on here jews for Jesus youtube for other jews to counter missionaries to see that blood is not required for forgiveness of sins and that praying to Gd directly is true repentance. Hopefully this should help many jews focus back on the tanakh,

Forgiveness of sin in judaism, jews do not need Jesus

When they sin against you -- for there is no one who does not sin -- and you become angry with them and give them over to the enemy, who takes them captive to his own land, far away or near; and if they have a change of heart in the land where they are held captive, and repent and plead with you in the land of their conquerors and say, `We have sinned, we have done wrong, we have acted wickedly;' and if they turn back to you with all their heart and soul in the land of their enemies who took them captive, and pray to you toward the land you gave their fathers, toward the city you have chosen and the temple I have built for your Name; then from heaven, your dwelling place, hear their prayer and their plea, and uphold their cause. And forgive your people, who have sinned against you; forgive all the offenses they have committed against you, and cause their conquerors to show them mercy. [I Kings 8:46-50]

Seek the Etrnl while He may be found;
Call upon the Etrnl while He is near.
Let the wicked abandon his ways,
and the evil his designs.
Let him return to the Etrnl and He will have mercy upon him;
let him return to our Gd, for He is ever ready to forgive. [Isaiah 55:6-7]

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. [Psalm 32:1]
When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. [Psalm 32:3]
I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Etrnl; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. [Psalm 32:5]

Therefore, I pray, let my Etrnl's forbearance be great, as You have declared, saying, 'The Etrnl! slow to anger and abounding in kindness; forgiving iniquity and transgression...' Pardon, I pray, the iniquity of this people according to Your great kindness, as You have forgiven this people ever since Egypt. [Numbers 14:17-19]

Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire;
mine ears hast thou opened:
burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. [Psalm 40:6]

And Samuel said, Hath the Etrnl as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Etrnl? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams [1 Samuel 15:22]

For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. The sacrifices of Gd are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O Gd, thou wilt not despise. [Psalm 51:16-17]

...if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. [2 Chronicles 7:14]

But if from there you seek the Etrnl your Gd, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul. [Deuteronomy 4:29]



Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2014, 01:56:37 PM »
My problem isn't with the missionaries as much as it is the Jews who know less about Judaism than many of these non-Jews...That's what Kahane believed.  The Baptist know the scriptures better than us.
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Offline Lisa

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2014, 02:23:26 PM »
My problem isn't with the missionaries as much as it is the Jews who know less about Judaism than many of these non-Jews...That's what Kahane believed.  The Baptist know the scriptures better than us.

Good post, Dr. Dan.  If more Jews were proud and knowledgeable about their heritage, and religion, crazy groups like J4J wouldn't even exist.  They would have no target market. 

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2014, 08:27:08 PM »
I've felt more disconnected from this forum over time because of the fact that Christians believing in basic Christian doctrine such as Jesus providing a way to receive forgiveness for sins, are looked down upon so badly by so many members.

Nobody is forcing anybody to accept Jesus as their Savior even if they were missionizing (and I haven't seen anybody on the forum missionizing). I don't agree with coercive or deceptive methods of missionizing but simply sharing the gospel with the entire world is a basic Christian doctrine which is not stupid or evil. When someone becomes a sincere Christian they become one of my brothers or sisters and I don't like it when they are talked about as if they're scum on the bottom of your shoes.

I haven't felt like posting very much because some really grievous things were never apologized for (just had lame excuses given for them), even by very prominent people. Some people are egotistical and believe they can never, ever do anything wrong.

No Muman I'm not addressing this to you although you've posted your share of things that didn't sit well with me either this isn't about you.

I'm also not going to get into a long, drawn-out discussion over this.

I'm not going to give fuel to antis by listing off my grievances in a public venue.

I just want to say that I hope I feel like getting back into the forum more when it comes closer to the election times again.
I'm very sorry this happened Rubystars!

Whether the Christians were right,  or the Jew's were right, it doesn't matter. It happened for a reason, it was all in the hand of G-d. And he has an end plan. ..

Christians and Jews have been fighting for 2000 year's over differences, it's time to get over it. I truly believe we are getting close to the end of the journey. When two groups support the same cause, they should not nitpick each other and hurt each other's feelings. They should help each other! With a gentle hand. If they are the enemy, then that is a different story.

These kind of act's and behaviors only hurt the American JTF and breeds anti-semitism...
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 09:07:28 PM by אפרים בן נח »
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline nessuno

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2014, 09:13:08 PM »
I'm very sorry this happened Rubystars!

Whether the Christians were right,  or the Jew's were right, it doesn't matter. It happened for a reason, it was all in the hand of G-d. And he has an end plan. ..

Christians and Jews have been fighting for 2000 year's over differences, it's time to get over it. I truly believe we are getting close to the end of the journey. When two groups support the same cause, they should not nitpick each other and hurt each other's feelings. They should help each other! With a gentle hand. If they are the enemy, then that is a different story.

These kind of act's and behaviors only hurt the American JTF and breeds anti-semitism...
Excellent post.  Thank You.
Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline Every Jew AK47

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2014, 09:22:12 PM »
As sick as the Anti-Semitism of Christians throughout the ages makes me, I can say if we are here to attract a Christian audience to support our cause and to bring Christians to our side, we are not doing a great job by mocking their G-d or the Saviour they look up to..  Whether or not we reject him (Jesus) as G-d, Moshiach, Rabbi or think he is a fairy tale, we should not insult or mock "Jesus" or "Christians" as a whole or put down their religion.   

The Anti-Jesus attitude isn't going to be much help to us and will also help send many potential Kahanists and supporters of Israel/Jewish people to the fold of David Duke and the StørmFrønt crowd.  David DUke and other Anti-Semites bank of the fact that Judaism is "Anti-Christian".  They make claims, which are totally false, that the Talmud and Jews talks about killing, hating and mocking Christians.  Let us not give any fuel to the fires of these Jew haters, who also probably frequent this forum as well, just as we would frequent theirs to see what type of activity they are being involved in.

Let us not close our eyes to the wrongdoings that Christians have done in the past, but not let us be arrogant and denigrating and understand the sensitivities of our Christian Kahanist members here.  Remember, we are in need of gathering support and we don't want JTF to become a Christian bashing forum.  That is why I cannot really partake in Anti-Christian threads.  It is one thing if there is a certain church or denomination of Christianity that promotes Anti-Semitism, which we are to stand up against, but we should not attack "Christianity" or their religion as a whole.

Just so you know I hate the "Jews for Jesus/Messianic" movements and the Evangelists who think they need to save Jews from hell..  I don't hate Christians at all nor do I hate their g-d Jesus or the Trinity g-d or whatever they believe in.  Even if G-d to them is Zeus , Vishnu, Krishna, Thor, Odin, etc etc I do not look down on them if their religion teaches peace, friendship , tolerance and is not at enemy with the Jewish people..   



The so-called 'Messianic Jews' who I have no problem calling Christians (as they are about as Jewish as a ham sandwich) have started a new propaganda campaign claiming that Jesus was with us in Aushwitz.

Calling Messianic Jews,  "Christian" is an insult to real Christians who truly are faithful to their religion.  You are essentially polarizing and denigrating Christians as a whole, by referring to Messianic Jews as "Christians".    Should we refer to Madonna and the new age Kabbalists as really "Jews"?  Just because they follow some twisted version of Gnosticism that incorporates Judeo-Christian theology, doesn't make the religion Christian or Jewish.

European Protestant and almost all Orthodox Christianity is truly a Greek/Hellenist religion and it really has little to do with Judaism at all.. Messianic Jews are a mockery to both Jews and Christians.
Please keep the Kahanist movement strong and free of internal strife and drama.

Offline White Israelite

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2014, 11:44:16 PM »
It gets complex because we have Christian allies and its impossible to not offend without really telling the truth why Jews and Christians believe in 2 different things.

I respect Christians who support us but the truth is unless we completely avoid talking about religion all together there's going to come a point that dialogue and conflict are going to occur in some form and that is what the enemy wants.

Jews believe in the Torah and the tanakh as well as well as oral Torah the talmud. We are still waiting for messiah.

Christians believe in salvation of sins through Jesus with some basis and extensions on tanakh but claiming its been fulfilled.

Some Christians support us because they believe it is prophecy that Jews will one day become Christians and that Israel is part if prophecy like john hagee, this I oppose because it is against jewish scripture.

Other Christians believe in a dual covenant that Jews have their own covenant with God and Christians their own. While its not within Jewish scriptures, this would make sense as a approach of Christians who support Jews and some Jews believe at the time our own messiah comes, the entire world would acknowledge God at that point.

The other Christians are missionaries who believe that the Jews are blind and must.accept Jesus or be destined to hell, these are the Christians I worry about because they have done a convincing job infiltrating Israel, modifying or misinterpreting scripture and creating false movements to convert Jews. Some have gone as far as to make Jews believe they are completed Jews and even sell tallit with Jesus name on it. Others hand out literature for example at some work places my wife has been harassed while customers give her missionary stuff targetting Jews which I will post pictures of, it tries to claim the tanakh prophesies Jesus so it is a real danger with deception.

The main issue we have is jews who aren't aware of what's happening . 

Offline muman613

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2014, 01:02:17 AM »
As I said several times in this thread... We need to stand against the missionaries and so-called 'messianic jews' who are for all intent and purposes the same as Christians (because they believe that a man was G-d and he was messiah). There is nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade...

I do not know what pro-JTF Christians believe... It is good to know that there are pro-Israel Christians but as I have said many times there is reason to question their support. If they truly believe in the prophets of Israel then their support is Kosher in my mind, otherwise we may be better off without it.

Again, this thread was not an attack on the Christians who were born Christians (as they are permitted to believe things Jews are not [within the confines of the 7 noachide laws]) but these people who were born Jewish and attempt to deceive and destroy the faith of the Jewish nation. They are as Amalek (try to instill doubt in the mind of the Jew) and they must be fought with all we have.

I get along with all people... As long as they understand where my Judaism stands we have no problems. My good friend is a Mormon and we have theological discussions almost every time we spend time together. We agree on many aspects of the nature of G-d (we discussed Rambams 13 principles of faith last night)...

We, the religious Jews, have more in common with the religious Christians than with the secular atheists.

Quote
Deuteronomy 13:7-10

7. If your brother, the son of your mother, tempts you in secret or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your embrace, or your friend, who is as your own soul saying, "Let us go and worship other gods, which neither you, nor your forefathers have known."
8. Of the gods of the peoples around you, [whether] near to you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth;
9. You shall not desire him, and you shall not hearken to him; neither shall you pity him, have mercy upon him, nor shield him.
10. But you shall surely kill him, your hand shall be the first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

Quote
You shall not desire him: Heb. לֹא-תֹאבֶה. You shall feel no longing (תאב) towards him; do not love him (לֹא תֹאהֲבֶנוּ)). Since it is said, “You shall love your fellow man as yourself” (Lev. 19:18), [therefore it is necessary to tell us that] this person, [however,] you shall not love.
    
לא תאבה לו: לא תהא תאב לו. לא תאהבנו. לפי שנאמר (ויקרא יט, יח) ואהבת לרעך כמוך, את זה לא תאהב:
and do not hearken to him: when he pleads for his life, that you should pardon him. [It is necessary to state this] because it says, “[If you see the donkey of your enemy] you shall surely help him” (Exod. 23:5); this person, [however,] you shall not help.
    
ולא תשמע אליו: בהתחננו על נפשו למחול לו, לפי שנאמר (שמות כג, ה) עזוב תעזוב עמו, לזה לא תעזוב:
neither shall you pity him: [It is necessary to state this] because it says, “you shall not stand idly by the blood of your fellow man” (Lev. 19:16). This person [however] you shall not pity. — [Sifrei]
    
ולא תחוס עינך עליו: לפי שנאמר (ויקרא יט, טז) לא תעמוד על דם רעך, על זה לא תחוס:
[neither shall you…] have mercy upon him: Do not search for merits in his favor.
    
ולא תחמול: לא תהפוך בזכותו:
nor shall you shield him: If you are aware of something that will condemn him, you are not permitted to remain silent. — [Sifrei]
    
ולא תכסה עליו: אם אתה יודע לו חובה אינך רשאי לשתוק:
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 01:17:40 AM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2014, 01:24:26 AM »
I must state that I hate missionaries who attempt to proselytize Jews. I have never seen anyone here try to do that, so do not think I am implying that JTF Christians want us to convert... But I have a personal stake in this, as I do against pisslam, because my fathers brother has flipped to the 'messianic side' and he attempted to get my father while on his death bed to accept 'the lord Jesus'. It aggravated me to no end knowing this and I have CUT OFF my uncle from ever speaking to me again (I hope he dies alone and afraid).

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Every Jew AK47

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2014, 02:52:26 AM »
I must state that I hate missionaries who attempt to proselytize Jews. I have never seen anyone here try to do that, so do not think I am implying that JTF Christians want us to convert... But I have a personal stake in this, as I do against pisslam, because my fathers brother has flipped to the 'messianic side' and he attempted to get my father while on his death bed to accept 'the lord Jesus'. It aggravated me to no end knowing this and I have CUT OFF my uncle from ever speaking to me again (I hope he dies alone and afraid).

To wish that on your uncle is morbid at best..  Many Jews in Galut have gone astray, should we just wish they die and not make teshuva?? There must be some redemption to the Jewish people..  Did the Prophets wish all the people to die and suffer when they went off to worship foreign g_ds or did they cry out for Israel to make Teshuva, repent and return their hearts to Hashem??

I understand your sentiments considering he tried to spread his poison to your father, but if he succeeded in converting your father, would you then wish the same on your father?? Obviously, somebody indoctrinated your uncle and tricked him into becoming a Messianic.  Who is more to blame??  Perhaps, he also felt it was hard finding his place in a Jewish community, whereas Moshekis and Christians welcomed him with open arms..  Do you think that is impossible? 

Sadly, we are so quick to hate and condemn our own people when they go run to evil cults like the Moshekis (Messianic Jews) , Islam , Neo-Kabbalists, etc, however, we seem to always overlook our own wrongdoings.  I have struggled very hard to be accepted by my own Jewish people.  While people in my own Jewish community told me I am not worthy of shidduch or even attending their synagogue because my income is too low and I cannot make fees, I have had Moshekis and CHristians try to convince me and coerce me to join their churches or functions.  They would pamper me as "Chosen" or use any other type of method to win me over. .   I have pretty thick skin and know that I rather accept death, even if I do myself in, then to leave my Jewish faith and culture.   However, not all Jews are so diligent.   Many Jews, who struggle financially, were not born into Orthodoxy or religion , unmarried and have no friends have a hard time fitting into Jewish community which can be polarizing, demanding and "expensive".    This is the irony of the current situation we live in today, especially in the USA, where Jewish communities function more like country clubs.   

So, before you wish for your uncle to suffer, die , perish , etc, maybe you can take a broader look at what may have led your uncle to go astray and leave his Jewish roots for the Messianic cult or even to convert to Christianity.   Sadly, I find too many Jews very swift in judgment and too slow in reason.  We also rather resort to punishing wrongdoers than look as to what may have led people to do wrong in the first place.      My feeling is that Messianic Jews and rogue Christian evangelists are gaining the upper hand, because of the lack of community and care Jews have for one another.  We spend too much time looking down on each other rather than trying to support one another.

I would say its wrong to wish such horrible things on your uncle and that you should hope he can make teshuva..  Let's focus on what is spreading the virus not just killing off the victims of the disease.

Please keep the Kahanist movement strong and free of internal strife and drama.

Offline muman613

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2014, 03:15:38 AM »
EJA44,

I am one of the most forgiving and I always hope that teshuva can be done. But I tried to rebuke my uncle and he never called me back, and his email went dead. I would have continued trying to appeal to his Jewish neshama but he would rather not deal with the guilt he must feel.

I have a Jewish community, a Chabad Jewish community which is growing. We are inclusive and have many Jewish families, and even some who have converted to Judaism. Everyone is treated well no matter where they come from. We regularly have Rabbis from around the areas spend Shabbat with us. I like out in the boonies of Jewish life, and Chabad have several shlichum within a 20 minute drive of where I live. It is one of the only ways I can keep a mostly kosher existence here in Northern California.

But regarding trying to bring my uncle back. I think it is a lost cause. And as I posted in another thread, any Jew who attempts to sway another Jew to follow a god which is foreign to Jews should not be pitied, even if a family member.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2014, 05:10:16 AM »
There are left-wing "religious" Jews that try to proselytize to real Jews. How do Jews deal with this?

Offline Every Jew AK47

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Re: Jesus was with us, the Jewish people, in Aushwitz
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2014, 05:25:17 AM »
There are left-wing "religious" Jews that try to proselytize to real Jews. How do Jews deal with this?

I actually agree with you on this ChaimFan... So many people are freaking out about Messianics, but fail to see the danger of the Deformists (Reformists)..  I, personally, think Reformists are every bit is damaging to Judaism as the Moshekis and even maybe worse. The problem with The Deform is that many Jews will actually think they practice Judaism, while they bastardize our religion.  The Deformists now have lesbian goyim women who they ordain as rabbis.  I really wonder why so many people here focus on Messianics when a majority of Jews are running to the Reform.   And, if we want to talk about degrading our religion, culture, etc, the Deformists have made great contributions.  The Deform as a whole have voted for Obama and many Deformists advocate for giving Yehudah and Shomron to the Palestinians for the sake of peace.. 

Most Moshekis I meet will practice a heretical religion and coerce others to join them, but at least I haven't heard of any of them advocating for a "Peace for Land" deal like I hear frequently from Deformists.   Both Messianics and Deformists have lesbian looking women wearing tallit, carrying Torah scrolls around their shuls, making a mockery of Hashem's most prized treasure on the earth, His Torah. 
Please keep the Kahanist movement strong and free of internal strife and drama.