Marxist Pope

[drlmg]

I do not like this pope... didn't from the first time I read about him.

POPE DEMANDS 'LEGITIMATE REDISTRIBUTION' OF WEALTH

.....denounced trickle-down economic theories as unproven and naive

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_REL_VATICAN_UN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-05-09-06-31-28

During the Reagan years (in US) anyone who did not become wealthier or benefit from the booming economy was either lazy or just plain complacent and unwilling to excel. Re-distributing wealth will accomplish nothing because the reason *most* people are wealthy is because of their self discipline, work ethic, intelligence, etc. Besides, the old saying "easy come - easy go" is fact.... give someone *most* with the typical poor person mentality money and they blow it on a lotto ticket, booze, cigarette, etc. binge instead of saving and spending wisely.

The stereotypes I speak of I think are the majority but certainly not all.... poor does not necessarily mean lazy and stupid, I know there are plenty of hard working good poor people.... They can be helped by making conditions easier to help themselves while the lazy will not help themselves. That is why trickle down works much better than giving, it filters out the bums who deserve nothing while enabling those who are good people to help themselves.

Marxism is NOT Godly, HELPING yourself and others is... Not supporting able bodied people.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Who listens to the pope? Christians don't. Maybe some Jews only like the pip gov takes him seriously

[drlmg]

OK.... so essentially what the Pope says doesn't really matter because everyone knows he is a Marxist and it goes in one ear and out the other?

To me he is sort of like Jessie Jackson, people make him feel as though he is important and let him speak but inside they are thinking "what a moron".

I pray you are right!

[syyuge]

Pedro Romanus the last.

[Debbie Shafer]

This is the pope who will be on the scene when the antichrist enters the picture...  In John chapter 21 Jesus asks Peter to Take care of and feed my sheep.  Peter is the symbol of the present day church present and future.  It is the church's responsibility to take care of the sheep, poor, and underprivileged, not the government's to take from and re-distribute wealth.  Levying illegitimate taxes is stealing, especially under the Constitution.  "Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.  Ephesians 4:28 and Romans 13:9.  Food Stamps, cash for clunkers, cell phones, and Obama care are not among them.

[muman613]

This is the pope who will be on the scene when the antichrist enters the picture...  In John chapter 21 Jesus asks Peter to Take care of and feed my sheep.  Peter is the symbol of the present day church present and future.  It is the church's responsibility to take care of the sheep, poor, and underprivileged, not the government's to take from and re-distribute wealth.  Levying illegitimate taxes is stealing, especially under the Constitution.  "Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.  Ephesians 4:28 and Romans 13:9.  Food Stamps, cash for clunkers, cell phones, and Obama care are not among them.

wow

[muman613]

The Jewish way of income redistribution is the best, Torah ordained way...

[muman613]

Some of the Jewish Halacha (laws) concerning how to support the poor among us...


http://www.torah.org/learning/halacha-overview/chapter35.html]

35. Gifts to the Poor - Matnos Aniyim

a) Gifts from Crops

One who harvests a field or tree should not take everything, but should leave a little (at least 1/60) at the end for the poor, as it says "You shall not finish the end of your field when you reap [and you shall not gather up the remains of your reaping]; you shall leave them for the poor and the stranger".1 One who harvests a field should not pick up fallen stalks but should leave them for the poor, as it says "[You shall not finish reaping the end of your field] and you shall not gather up the remains of your reaping... you shall leave them for the poor and the stranger".2 Similarly, one who harvests a vineyard should not take sparse clusters or pick up fallen fruit but should leave them for the poor, as it says "You shall not strip your vineyard nor gather up the fallen fruit of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the poor and the stranger"1; [and it says "When you harvest your vineyard you shall not strip it behind you; it shall be for the stranger, the orphan and the widow"].3 One who harvests and forgets a small amount should not go back for it but should leave it for the poor, as it says "And if you forget a sheaf in the field you shall not go back to take it; it shall be for the stranger, the orphan and the widow... when you gather your olives you shall not remove everything after you; it shall be for the stranger, the orphan and the widow".4 If the poor are no longer looking for it anyone may take it.a

During the third and sixth years of the sabbatical cycle the second tithe is given to the poor, as it says "At the end of three years you shall take out all the tithe of your crop of that year and put it at your gate; and the Levite shall come... and the stranger and the orphan and widow... and shall eat"5; and it says "When you have finished giving all the tithe of your crop in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give [it] to the Levite, the stranger, the orphan, and the widow and they shall eat".6,b

b) Charity

We are commanded to give charity to the poor in accordance with our means and their needs, as it says "[If there is among you a poor man...] you shall open your hand to him and shall lend him enough for his needs that he lacks"7; and it says "[And if your brother becomes poor...] you shall support him, stranger or settler, and he shall live with you... and your brother shall live with you"8; and it says "You sha1l open your hand to your poor brother and to the poor man in your land".9 It is forbidden to ignore the poor when they ask for aid, as it says "You shall not harden your heart and you shall not shut your hand from your poor brother".7 Redemption of captives is the highest form of charity.c A promise to charity is like a vow. Every city must appoint men to collect and distribute charity.d

One should be especially careful to fulfill the commandment of giving charity, more than any other commandment. The Holy One, blessed be He, listens closely to the cries of the poor, as it says "And when he cries out to Me I will hear, for I am merciful".10 Charity is characteristic of the descendants of Abraham, as it says "For I know... that he will command his children... to do charity [and justice]".11 Israel will not be redeemed except through charity, as it says "Zion will be redeemed through justice; and those who return to it, through charity".

Sources:

1. Lev. 23:22    a. 1:1-2,4,5-6,10,15
2. Lev. 19:9-10    b. 6:4
3. Deut. 24:21    c. 7:1-2,13; 8:10
4. Deut. 24:19-20    d. 8:1; 9:1
5. Deut. 14:28-29    e. 10:1,3
6. Deut. 26:12   
7. Deut. 15:7-8   
8. Lev. 25:35-36   
9. Deut. 15:11   
10. Ex. 22:26   
11. Gen. 18:19   
12. Isaiah 1:27

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

"Pope" Bergoglio (ysv) may well be the Antichrist (ysv).

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

"Pope" Bergoglio (ysv) may well be the Antichrist (ysv).

There does seem to be something a little to perfect about him... almost as if he is trying to act like Jesus in front of the whole world...

[drlmg]

Well it could also be argued that the Pope gets the concept itself of wealth redistribution from Christianity, not Marxism, and that this concept influenced the west and Marx, who was baptized Christian, incorporated a form of it into his atheistic philosophy.  There are Christian scriptures that show how redistribution of wealth was how things were run in the early church:

Acts 2:44 All who believed were together and had all things in common;  45 they would sell their possessions and goods and distribute the proceeds to all, as any had need.
Acts 4:32 Now the whole group of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common.
Acts 4:34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold.  35 They laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.

Personally if one group of people wants to do this among themselves voluntarily, I have no problem with it.  But compelling everyone to do this through government means is neither practical nor moral.  It is not practical because people were created to own property and make the right choice of what to do with the things they have, so redistribution will ultimately lead to conflict and loss of freedom.  It is not moral because there are poor people in society such as Muslims who are traitors to every western country they're in, and benefiting them just because they are poor using someone else's wealth is both theft and poses a danger to society.  Charity is a much better way to make sure the actual poor are taken care of than redistribution.

Maybe so.... but as Debbie Shafer emphasized (or so seemed to me), it is the church that takes care of the truly needy NOT the government forcefully confiscating wealth and redistributing it to buy votes.

Is there more to the verses you quote, because as I read it it was not commanding that anyone do that.... just that the group of "believers" were doing it and it was good..... which in a group of good people I am sure would work well but unfortunately the world is full of deadbeats and freeloaders now so it would be insane to expect that to work.

I asked my mom about something similar that I read in the bible.... it sounded just like communism. She explained it in a way that made sense, I just forgot what it was... BTW she is very knowledgeable about history, government, theology, etc.... that is why I ask her... when I run into something that doesn't make sense to me I go to her.

One more thing, the wording just hit me... he DEMANDED "legitimate redistribution".... then let him lead by example and start selling off church property and giving the proceeds to the poor.

[drlmg]

Don't get me wrong, I despise communism, but...

Could one say that communism is evil or a sin, even if the participants are willing? I know for some it is a Utopian dream, to some a means to live off someone elses labor, and to others it is means to power and control.

Even $hitler hated communism.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

    The Puritans even tried communism(which came from earlier movements) and failed, which lead to the greatest system ever.



  The Essenes though considered heretics, but still Jews and followed very strict Torah law lived in communes. ..
 

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

    The Puritans even tried communism(which came from earlier movements) and failed, which lead to the greatest system ever.



  The Essenes though considered heretics, but still Jews and followed very strict Torah law lived in communes. ..
 

 Maybe so, but we "Rabbinites" do have the concept of charity, BUT it has limits. Its 10- 20 %. And it can involve confiscation and distribution when the poor are neglected, BUT their still are limits and to how much one gives or even can give (a normal person isn't allowed to give more then 20% because then he/she will become poor themselves) and also their is respect for a person's property and possessions and no favoritism either to the rich or the poor when it comes to judgment and justice.
 And by the way we don't consider them (essene/heritic sects) to follow "very strict Torah law ", but that is a different discussion.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

And yea, I was also watching Bill Maher and I saw some Catholic (nun?) and him talking about redistribution etc. and I ask myself if this is what they preach especially the Church it should be the first to go and do so. Let them redistribute all of that property they have seized over the centuries. Also they (the celebrities and famous rich people who preach this) let them empty their own pockets and put their money where their mouths are.

[cjd]

And yea, I was also watching Bill Maher and I saw some Catholic (nun?) and him talking about redistribution etc. and I ask myself if this is what they preach especially the Church it should be the first to go and do so. Let them redistribute all of that property they have seized over the centuries. Also they (the celebrities and famous rich people who preach this) let them empty their own pockets and put their money where their mouths are.

The RCC here in the United States does indeed do a great deal of charitable work and has in the past has run a great deal of hospitals and clinics where the poor were able to get help according to their financial need... This said and unless something has drastically changed in policy the church here has never advocated followers turn over  vast amounts of their worldly goods for the church to redistribute as it sees fit... A special collection or program now and then for increased aid for one thing or another but that's it... Even the church itself will not impoverish itself to do charitable work... This Pope has socialist tendencies and may move in that direction however the church as a whole will not follow... This pope does a lot of talking but I honestly believe non Catholics pay more attention to his pipe dreams then the church's actual followers do  

[ChabadKahanist]

"Pope" Bergoglio (ysv) may well be the Antichrist (ysv).

What is an anti-christ?

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

What is an anti-christ?

Armilus, Gog.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Armilus, Gog.

  Naa, no one takes little red ridding hood seriously any more.