They are getting closer to the Torah

[Dexter]

But if someone want to rest it's because he have the need to rest, you won't rest just because you are board .
If you have needs you are not perfect because perfect thing have no needs otherwise he is not perefect .

[Lubab]

But if someone want to rest it's because he have the need to rest, you won't rest just because you are board .
If you have needs you are not perfect because perfect thing have no needs otherwise he is not perefect .

Don't tell G-d what to do.

If G-d wants to have a need or a desire, He will. If you say He can't than you are believing in a god that's even more limited than you and I.

[Lubab]

Your same question could be asked and has been asked about why G-d created the world at all.

Does he have a need for this? A desire?
Does that make Him imperfect?

The answer is as I told you above.


The problem is people limit G-d to their own definitions of perfection and this is a big problem. If G-d is no greater than what your mind can convieve as perfection, then He's no greater than you.

He's the one who invented perfection, He defines it, not us. So if G-d wants to rest, you try and tell Him he can't because He's "perfect".
I wouldn't have the guts.

[Dexter]

But if someone want to rest it's because he have the need to rest, you won't rest just because you are board .
If you have needs you are not perfect because perfect thing have no needs otherwise he is not perefect .

Don't tell G-d what to do.

If G-d wants to have a need or a desire, He will. If you say He can't than you are believing in a G-d that's even more limited than you and I.

There is a BIG (HUGE) diffrent between what you need, as rest, and what you want to do as creat a world .
If G-d rest it's not because he wanted to, it's because he have to, because if someone need to rest it's mean he was tired, and because of that G-d isn't perfect .
Unless you have an answer .

He's the one who invented perfection, He defines it, not us. So if G-d wants to rest, you try and tell Him he can't because He's "perfect".
I wouldn't have the guts.

No, it's men kind that invented perfection to try and define God, and God don't stand in the standarts of perfection.

[jdl4ever]

The section of the Torah about Genesis speaks only in analogies in our way of speaking so that we can comprehend a tiny fraction of what happened.  Some people understand more than others and if you study science you will understand more than others.  G-d has no need to rest and he isn't really resting for that matter since everything is only in existence if G-d himself is currently willing for it to happen by allowing the laws of nature he created to continue to exist.   G-d's rest is in a figurative sense in that after man was created on the sixth day, which was the entire purpose of creation,  G-d's work was finished and creation is no longer happening after that.  G-d is resting in a figurative sense since he is waiting and watching for man to do what is just and right in G-d's eyes and to follow in his ways. 

The Sabbath is a day of rest not only commemorating this event but also commemorating the purpose of G-d's rest.  We set aside that day to separate ourselves from the outside world and concentrate on following in G-d's ways (praying, learning Torah, eating big meals to honor him) and in doing so hopefully we can make the purpose of G-d's rest worthwhile by following in his ways and making G-d himself rejoice on his Sabbath which is still happening according to me.

[Lubab]

The section of the Torah about Genesis speaks only in analogies in our way of speaking so that we can comprehend a tiny fraction of what happened.  Some people understand more than others and if you study science you will understand more than others.  G-d has no need to rest and he isn't really resting for that matter since everything is only in existence if G-d himself is currently willing for it to happen by allowing the laws of nature he created to continue to happen.   G-d's rest is in a figurative sense in that after man was created on the sixth day, which was the entire purpose of creation,  G-d's work was finished and creation is no longer happening after that.  G-d is resting in a figurative sense since he is waiting and watching for man to do what is just and right in G-d's eyes and to follow in his ways. 

Yes. This is also a good point. Thank you.

[jdl4ever]

Dexter, answering your question made me think and opened up a new door to understanding the Sabbath.  It's one of those rare moments when things are coming together ... thank you. 

[Lubab]

But if someone want to rest it's because he have the need to rest, you won't rest just because you are board .
If you have needs you are not perfect because perfect thing have no needs otherwise he is not perefect .

Don't tell G-d what to do.

If G-d wants to have a need or a desire, He will. If you say He can't than you are believing in a G-d that's even more limited than you and I.

There is a BIG (HUGE) diffrent between what you need, as rest, and what you want to do as creat a world .
If G-d rest it's not because he wanted to, it's because he have to, because if someone need to rest it's mean he was tired, and because of that G-d isn't perfect .
Unless you have an answer .

He's the one who invented perfection, He defines it, not us. So if G-d wants to rest, you try and tell Him he can't because He's "perfect".
I wouldn't have the guts.

No, it's men kind that invented perfection to try and define G-d, and G-d don't stand in the standarts of perfection.

Right. I think, on the last point. G-d's not limited to our definition of perfection.

I hope you see now that there really is no difference between G-d's desire to create a world and G-d's desire to create the Sabbath.
Neither had to be created. G-d could've done fine without either one. But He chose those things out of complete unlimited free choice.

This is unlike our choices which are limited by our necessities and human frailties.

Since G-d doesn't have those limitations, His choice is a truly free choice. He made the rules up from scratch.

[Dexter]

The section of the Torah about Genesis speaks only in analogies in our way of speaking so that we can comprehend a tiny fraction of what happened.  Some people understand more than others and if you study science you will understand more than others.  G-d has no need to rest and he isn't really resting for that matter since everything is only in existence if G-d himself is currently willing for it to happen by allowing the laws of nature he created to continue to exist.   G-d's rest is in a figurative sense in that after man was created on the sixth day, which was the entire purpose of creation,  G-d's work was finished and creation is no longer happening after that.  G-d is resting in a figurative sense since he is waiting and watching for man to do what is just and right in G-d's eyes and to follow in his ways.  

Well, but why wouldn't we understand how the torah speaks about genesis, even if it's "only in analogies in our way of speaking so that we can comprehend a tiny fraction of what happened" ?
How do you know that G-d have no need to rest if it saying that :
2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
2:2 By the seventh day G-d had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.
--
It's very clear that he rested, not for man, but for himself, and the man should rest too in Sabbath as G-d did in the 7 day of the week .

Right. I think, on the last point. G-d's not limited to our definition of perfection.

I hope you see now that there really is no difference between G-d's desire to create a world and G-d's desire to create the Sabbath.
Neither had to be created. G-d could've done fine without either one. But He chose those things out of complete unlimited free choice.

This is unlike our choices which are limited by our necessities and human frailties.

Since G-d doesn't have those limitations, His choice is a truly free choice. He made the rules up from scratch.

If G-d  is not limited to our definition of perfection, than we can't even call him in a name, or write on him, because G-d have NO definition, also saying he have no limits is a definition it self .

[jdl4ever]

I don't understand your difficulty.  G-d resting is an analogy just like it says by the splitting of the sea that G-d used his right hand which is also an analogy since G-d doesn't have a right hand, also G-d creating us in him image is an analogy since he has no image.  G-d's name is also an analogy.  All these things are mere analogies to help us comprehend G-d by speaking in our terms.  G-d is limitless and his oneness is not able to be completely understood or defined by us so we use analogies which is better than using nothing.   Yes, G-d is in fact "resting" on the seventh day but the term "rest" is not the same as it applies to humans, the proper term does not exist in the Hebrew language and "rest" is the best analogy to what G-d is doing. 

[Dexter]

Why does G-d have his own terms ?
And how do you know G-d even have his own terms ?
Why would G-d creat terms for Human and terms for himself, how can we even understand what terms the Torah uses ? what you have said make the Torah Very complicated, now how can we know if G-d actually created the universe from nothing (chaos) ? what is chaos ? is it G-d's term or human one ? what created the chaos and why G-d make the chaos to somthing else by the creation ?

[Lubab]

1. Trees and plants were created on the third day. On the fourth day the sun, moon and heavenly bodies were created. How is that possible if plants require sunlight to grow?

The plants did not really grow until the 6th day when it rained for the first time and man existed to work the field. 2:5 Genesis. And See Rashi there. They were just like sprouts under the ground until that time.

2. On the second day of creation, it is written that the sky was separated from the waters. Gd never said it was good. However, on the third day of creation, Gd said what he created was good twice. How come?

Because the purpose of the creation of the 2nd day wasn't fulfilled until the 3rd day. There could be no use for the waters until there was land which could benefit from the water. See Genesis Rashi 1:7

Make sure when you are learning, you are doing it with Rashi's commentary. Just about all your questions will be answered there.

[newman]

Quote:"on the seventh day he rested from all his work."

That means he ceased.

Shabbat means 'to cease', does it not?

[Dr. Dan]

Tank you...where can i find Rashi's commentaries?

1. Trees and plants were created on the third day. On the fourth day the sun, moon and heavenly bodies were created. How is that possible if plants require sunlight to grow?

The plants did not really grow until the 6th day when it rained for the first time and man existed to work the field. 2:5 Genesis. And See Rashi there. They were just like sprouts under the ground until that time.

2. On the second day of creation, it is written that the sky was separated from the waters. Gd never said it was good. However, on the third day of creation, Gd said what he created was good twice. How come?

Because the purpose of the creation of the 2nd day wasn't fulfilled until the 3rd day. There could be no use for the waters until there was land which could benefit from the water. See Genesis Rashi 1:7

Make sure when you are learning, you are doing it with Rashi's commentary. Just about all your questions will be answered there.

[Lubab]

If G-d  is not limited to our definition of perfection, than we can't even call him in a name, or write on him, because G-d have NO definition, also saying he have no limits is a definition it self .

You are right. The sages stress that there is no definition we can give to G-d to properly describe Him.

That's why we can only use the praises of the prophets, because G-d gave them special permission to use these praises even though at the end of the day, they don't cut the mustard as far as describing G-d. You are right. Nothing could.

If we would come up with our own praises we would never be able to stop. G-d just gave permission for certain praises and said "these are good enough for Me".

All these praises, the "Perfect One", the "Kind One", The "Infinite One" are not proper definitions of G-d at all. We say them to remember that though they do not define Him, he is not lacking these qualities.

For instance, if I say "Dexter is a nice guy", that doesn't define you. Dexter is a person with all kinds of emotions and qualities and kindness is only one of them. You are not limited to only doing nice things.

However, my statement is still true because you are not lacking kindness. It is one of your attributes, but I keep in mind that there is much more to you than that.

[Lubab]

Tank you...where can i find Rashi's commentaries?

I like this one:

http://www.judaism.com/seriesdisplay.asp?USN=110

[Lubab]

Quote:"on the seventh day he rested from all his work."

That means he ceased.

Shabbat means 'to cease', does it not?

Yes it does mean "cease". As we say in Kiddush-G-d "ceased" (Shovas) from all His work.

On the 6 days of creation G-d created things as a means to an end.

On Shabbos He created the notion that things are an end unto themselves.

[Dexter]

If G-d  is not limited to our definition of perfection, than we can't even call him in a name, or write on him, because G-d have NO definition, also saying he have no limits is a definition it self .

You are right. The sages stress that there is no definition we can give to G-d to properly describe Him.

That's why we can only use the praises of the prophets, because G-d gave them special permission to use these praises even though at the end of the day, they don't cut the mustard as far as describing G-d. You are right. Nothing could.

If we would come up with our own praises we would never be able to stop. G-d just gave permission for certain praises and said "these are good enough for Me".

All these praises, the "Perfect One", the "Kind One", The "Infinite One" are not proper definitions of G-d at all. We say them to remember that though they do not define Him, he is not lacking these qualities.

For instance, if I say "Dexter is a nice guy", that doesn't define you. Dexter is a person with all kinds of emotions and qualities and kindness is only one of them. You are not limited to only doing nice things.

However, my statement is still true because you are not lacking kindness. It is one of your attributes, but I keep in mind that there is much more to you than that.

So we just need to try and not think about God, and just pray for him ?
And other question, why does god need us to pray  ?

[Dr. Dan]

Tank you...where can i find Rashi's commentaries?

I like this one:

http://www.judaism.com/seriesdisplay.asp?USN=110

Bereisheet...ok...i think i have the exodus one...tough to understand unless it's two people reading it together.

[jdl4ever]

Dexter, we are supposed to think about G-d and try to understand him.  That is the purpose of the Torah since it is a blueprint G-d gave us to follow in his ways.   Each one of the commandments in the Torah reflect an aspect of G-d and by understanding just one commandment and observing it you reach an understanding of that aspect of G-d.  By loving G-d and following in his ways by observing the Torah, we are able to understand G-d to some extent.  However, while we are supposed to try to understand G-d to the best of our ability, we must realize that we will only be able to reach a small fraction of understanding the whole truth about G-d since he is uncomprehensable and our minds can not comprehend his oneness.   According to tradition, even Moses did not understand certain things about G-d. 

[Lubab]

If G-d  is not limited to our definition of perfection, than we can't even call him

So we just need to try and not think about G-d, and just pray for him ?
And other question, why does G-d need us to pray  ?

The main point of prayer is not because G-d needs it, but because we need Him.
We need His assistance in everything we do, and we also need to recognize where all the blessings we have came from. He is giving us all these gifts and if we don't apprecate it, we are being ungrateful.

Our prayers are set up to help us appreciate our blessings and to recognize G-d's involvement in the world.

[Muck DeFuslims]

Some things are unknowable and incomprehensible to the human mind. Try as we might, we can never fully grasp them.

The concept of Creation, or something coming from nothing is incomprehensible, until one accepts that something didn't come from nothing. Something, everything comes from G-d.

Being human we are unable to fully grasp the concept of a time when there was no time, or an entity that is eternal and transcends time.

The opening letter of Genesis is the Hebrew 'bet' or 'b' which is shaped like a backwards English 'c'. As Hebrew is read from right to left, and the Hebrew 'b' is closed on all sides except going forward to the left, this gives us a clue that what there was before Genesis can not be fully understood or known by man.

The very word Adonai has the connotation 'I don't know'.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't think about G-d.

This just means we should accept we can never fully understand G-d.

Scientists will tell us the Universe is expanding. The Universe is stretching, getter larger.

But what is the Universe expanding into ?

If one could travel to the end of the Universe, what would be on the other side ?

Where did everything in the Universe come from ?

These questions are almost imponderable and the answers to them are incomprehensible.

That's because the answer is G-d.

[Dr. Dan]

On that note, i sometimes tell myself that the universe is a type of sphere like the earth is a sphere. Except when talkign about the earth, you can go upwards in to space... If the universe were a type of sphere in all directions..how can one leave it or go outside of it..what is outside of it?  Gd and Heaven.