Everyone gets mad at me again

[Israel Chai]

So I was researching that bahai thing, because it was completely random that the guy started quoting some things from some "prophet" no one ever heard of, and really, the more I searched, the better it looked, because all the leftists and homos and generally evil people were against it. I didn't hear anything about that religion from anyone but leftists, and obviously almost anything they attack looks good.

I found a letter from an x-bahai on angelfire, and basically yep a slightly more moral made-up religion like all the other ones. Also, he's quoting his religion because these people apparently have an obligation to teach their religion to random people with no interest in it, which of course is not proselytizing.
http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/bahailinks.html

Also, I read a letter by their "house of justice", which I suppose is a lovely word for their leadership, and it sounded like the empty nothings we had to read when I was in an Xtian communist sex-cult.

1 January 2011

To the Bahá’ís of the World

Dearly loved Friends,

For the past five days, the Continental Counsellors have been gathered in conference in the Holy Land, engaged in earnest deliberation at once insightful and clear visioned, well grounded and confident, on the progress of the Divine Plan.  The joy and wonder of this gathering, now entering its closing moments, has come from the vivid retelling of your numerous exploits, deeds which secured the astonishing attainment of the goal of the Five Year Plan one year early.  It is hard to express in words how much love for you has been shown in these few, fleeting days.  We praise God that He has raised up a community so accomplished and render thanks to Him for releasing your marvellous potentialities.  You it is who, whether in collective endeavours or individual efforts, are presenting the verities of the Faith and assisting souls to recognize the Blessed Beauty.  You it is who, in your tens of thousands, are serving as tutors of study circles wherever receptivity is kindled.  You it is who, without thought of self, are providing spiritual education to the child and kindly fellowship to the junior youth.  You it is who, through visits to homes and invitations to yours, are forging ties of spiritual kinship that foster a sense of community.  You it is who, when called to serve on the institutions and agencies of the Cause, are accompanying others and rejoicing in their achievements.  And it is all of us,whatever our share in this undertaking, who labour and long, strive and supplicate for the transformation of humanity, envisioned by Baha’u’llah, to be hastened.

A new five-year horizon now beckons, rich with portent.  The features of the Plan that will begin this Ridvan are set out in a letter we addressed to the Counsellors Conference at its opening session and which was transmitted to National Spiritual Assemblies the same day.  We hope that you will be able to give it thoughtful study, alongside the message we addressed to you at Ridvan 2010, at gatherings of all kinds–whether at the national, regional, or cluster level, in local communities, in neighbourhoods and villages, or in the home.  We are certain that, through the consultations about the Plan in which you participate, your understanding will deepen and, conscious of the spiritual forces that support you, you will resolve to make this global enterprise a personal concern and become as occupied with the well-being of the human family as you are with that of your dearest kin.  It brings us great joy that so many souls throughout the Bahá’í community are ready to thus distinguish themselves.  But what gratifies us beyond this is the certain knowledge that victories will be won in the next five years by youth and adults, men and women, who may at present be wholly unaware of Baha’u’llah’s coming, much less acquaintedwith the “society-building power” of His Faith.  For you possess a potent instrument for spiritually empowering the masses of humanity to take charge of their own destiny, aninstrument tempered in the crucible of experience.  You know well, and have heard clearly, the call of Baha’u’llah:  “I am the Sun of Wisdom and the Ocean of Knowledge.  I cheer the faint and revive the dead.  I am the guiding Light that illumineth the way.  I am the royal Falcon on the arm of the Almighty.  I unfold the drooping wings of every broken bird and start it on its flight.”

Our abiding prayers are with each of you.

[signed:  The Universal House of Justice]



I'm not attacking them all out unless I hear that they're trying to convert Jews in Israel. Are they trying to convert Jews in Israel?

[angryChineseKahanist]

 
I'm Maaaaaaaddddd at you.

No I'm not.

[muman613]

Who cares? Never heard of them...

[Israel Chai]

Who cares? Never heard of them...

Their headquarters is in Israel. If they're converting Jews, we need to be more than worried.

[muman613]

Their headquarters is in Israel. If they're converting Jews, we need to be more than worried.

How many have converted? And why aren't they targeted as missionaries by existing laws in Israel?

[Zelhar]

They refrain from proselytizing in Israel according to a historic gentleman's agreement  with Ben Gurion. So pretty much they are a non-issue which is more then I can say about other cults and sects.

Their headquarters is in Israel. If they're converting Jews, we need to be more than worried.

[Israel Chai]

They refrain from proselytizing in Israel according to a historic gentleman's agreement  with Ben Gurion. So pretty much they are a non-issue which is more then I can say about other cults and sects.

If that's the case, all the leftists hate them, and so long as they don't go "teaching" to Jews, I'm cool with them. Even if they have a prophet too, they seem to conform to the Noahide laws as far as I can tell, so regardless of what I think of their beliefs then, that's acceptable, and I will continue to study to see, but so far I think "they can stay".

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Are these the ones who wear mc hammer pants because they believe their messiah will plop out of a man unexpectedly at any time?  Or is that the druze?

[muman613]

Are these the ones who wear mc hammer pants because they believe their messiah will plop out of a man unexpectedly at any time?  Or is that the druze?

Are you serious? Never heard of this..

[Binyamin Yisrael]

They have two holy sites in Israel. Their holiest site is a grave in Akko. Their second holiest site but which is more well known is the Shrine of the Bab in Haifa. The tomb is in the golden dome that looks like a mosque with the Persian gardens on the slopes of Mount Carmel. Their House of Justice is also on Mount Carmel but is not open to the public. I saw their tombs in Haifa and Akko in 1998. They basically say every religion is holy and they take stuff from every religion but they only believe in One G-d. So they believe Hindu and Buddhist figures are prophets and everything contributes to their belief. Their religion was started by someone in Persia that broke off of Islam. So they basically believe that their prophets are the continuation of Islam. So they say the Jewish prophets, Yeshu, and Mohammad paved the way for their prophets. Mohammad did the same in incorporating certain aspects of Judaism and Xtianity. But the Bahais are basically peaceful and the Muslims in Persia persecuted them which is why they escaped to Israel. Their prophets that escaped Persia in the 1800's are buried in Israel. They are not allowed to live in Israel because of their agreement with Ben-Gurion that someone mentioned above. They come to Israel to work at their holy sites for a certain amount of time and then go home and other Bahais come to replace them. They also have Israelis working as security guards for them.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Are you serious? Never heard of this..

Hah, yes I am absolutely serious.  I just can't remember which group is which.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

They have two holy sites in Israel. Their holiest site is a grave in Akko. Their second holiest site but which is more well known is the Shrine of the Bab in Haifa. The tomb is in the golden dome that looks like a mosque with the Persian gardens on the slopes of Mount Carmel. Their House of Justice is also on Mount Carmel but is not open to the public. I saw their tombs in Haifa and Akko in 1998. They basically say every religion is holy and they take stuff from every religion but they only believe in One G-d. So they believe Hindu and Buddhist figures are prophets and everything contributes to their belief. Their religion was started by someone in Persia that broke off of Islam. So they basically believe that their prophets are the continuation of Islam. So they say the Jewish prophets, Yeshu, and Mohammad paved the way for their prophets. Mohammad did the same in incorporating certain aspects of Judaism and Xtianity. But the Bahais are basically peaceful and the Muslims in Persia persecuted them which is why they escaped to Israel. Their prophets that escaped Persia in the 1800's are buried in Israel. They are not allowed to live in Israel because of their agreement with Ben-Gurion that someone mentioned above. They come to Israel to work at their holy sites for a certain amount of time and then go home and other Bahais come to replace them. They also have Israelis working as security guards for them.

Isn't there something called Bahai gardens in Israel?  And is that a holy site for them?    I've heard it's nice-looking aesthetics but wasn't sure what that actually is.  Hope it's something kosher to visit and not some kind of religious thing

[Zelhar]

You can't miss it if you pass downtown Haifa. There is a slice of the mountain that they turned into a steps garden and in the middle there is a golden dome. You need tickets to enter for a tour. I think you can walk in the garden and also enter the buildings there if you want. I haven't done a tour there since I was a little kid though.

However their "holiest of holies" is actually the tomb of their "prophet" in The Bahai gardens of Acre are less known.

Isn't there something called Bahai gardens in Israel?  And is that a holy site for them?    I've heard it's nice-looking aesthetics but wasn't sure what that actually is.  Hope it's something kosher to visit and not some kind of religious thing

[Binyamin Yisrael]

The white building with columns on the Left is their House of Justice. The dome holds the tomb of one of their leaders called the Bab. That's their second holiest site. I saw the inside in 1998. It's not idolatry so there isn't any prohibition of going in. Strict Halacha holds one can go inside of a mosque and even use it for Jewish prayer if that's the only place you can do so. They don't call it a mosque. They also don't call it a temple. They call it the Shrine of the Bab. They have what they call temples. There are I think 10 Bahai Temples in the World. Their sites in Israel are not temples. I used to think the Shrine of the Bab was their version of the Temple Mount (Meaning the holiest site in their religion.). When I was a kid I used to call it the Bahai Mosque but now I know it's not a mosque either.

My dad was born in Haifa and my family lives in the Haifa area so I've known about the Bahai site since I was a little kid (1980's).

[Binyamin Yisrael]

They basically believe that all the religions contributed some stuff, even polytheistic religions and that they know more and more than back then. I guess they say Buddha and the Hindus didn't know the full truth of One G-d and people learned over time through all the religions. I think that's what one of them explained to me when I asked them questions in Haifa. Their religion is not idolatry. In that respect it's no worse than Islam. Both are heresies. But in regards to Islam and violence, Bahais are better.

Here is what Wikiepedia says.

Bahá'ís believe God to be generally regular and periodic in revealing His will to mankind through messengers/prophets, which are named Manifestations of God. Each messenger in turn establishes a covenant and founds a religion. This process of revelation, according to the Bahá'í writings, is also never ceasing,[1] which is contrary to many other belief systems that believe in a finality of their prophet/messenger. The general theme of the successive and continuous religions founded by Manifestations of God is that there is an evolutionary tendency, and that each Manifestation of God brings a larger measure of revelation (or religion) to humankind than the previous one.[4] The differences in the revelation brought by the Manifestations of God is stated to be not inherent in the characteristics of the Manifestation of God, but instead attributed to the various worldly, societal and human factors;[4] these differences are in accordance with the "conditions" and "varying requirements of the age" and the "spiritual capacity" of humanity.[4] These differences are seen to be needed since human society has slowly and gradually evolved through higher stages of unification from the family to tribes and then nations.[4]

Thus religious truth is seen to be relative to its recipients and not absolute; while the messengers proclaimed eternal moral and spiritual truths that are renewed by each messenger, they also changed their message to reflect the particular spiritual and material evolution of humanity at the time of the appearance of the messenger.[1] In the Bahá'í view, since humanity's spiritual capacity and receptivity has increased over time, the extent to which these spiritual truths are expounded changes.[4]

Bahá'u'lláh, the founder of the Bahá'í Faith, explained that the appearance of successive messengers was like the annual coming of Spring, which brings new life to the world which has come to neglect the teachings of the previous messenger.[1] He also used an analogy of the world as the human body, and revelation as a robe of "justice and wisdom".

Whenever this robe hath fulfilled its purpose, the Almighty will assuredly renew it. For every age requireth a fresh measure of the light of God. Every Divine Revelation hath been sent down in a manner that befitted the circumstances of the age in which it hath appeared.[5]

Bahá'u'lláh mentioned in the Kitáb-i-Íqán that God will renew the "City of God" about every thousand years,[6] and specifically mentioned that a new Manifestation of God would not appear within 1000 years of Bahá'u'lláh's message.[7][8]

Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Moses, Zoroaster, and Krishna were all named by Bahá'u'lláh as being among the establishers of religion, termed Manifestations of God, as well as himself, and his forerunner the Báb. Bahá'u'lláh also expressly or implicitly referred to Adam, Noah, Saleh, Húd, and an unnamed prophet of the Sabians as messengers of God.

Universal cycles

In addition to the idea of religion being progressively revealed from the same God through different prophets/messengers, there also exists in Bahá'í literature, the idea of a universal cycle,[9] which represents a series of dispensations, and is used to categorize human history and social evolution in a number of ways.[10][11] It is viewed as a superset of the sequence of progressive revelations, and currently comprises two cycles.

The Adamic cycle, also known as the Prophetic cycle is stated to have begun approximately 6,000 years ago with a Manifestation of God referred to in various sacred scriptures as Adam, and ended with the dispensation of Muhammad.[12][13] In this cycle, Bahá'í belief is that Manifestations of God continued to advance human civilization at regular intervals through progressive revelation. The Abrahamic religions and Dharmic religions are partial recognitions of this cycle, from a Bahá'í point of view.

In Bahá'í belief, the Bahá'í cycle, or Cycle of Fulfillment, began with the Báb and includes Bahá'u'lláh, and will last at least five hundred thousand years with numerous Manifestations of God appearing throughout that time.[13][14] It is stated in Bahá'í literature that the Manifestations of God in the Adamic cycle, in addition to bringing their own teachings, foretold of the Cycle of Fulfillment.[15]

[muman613]

Why post that stuff? I can care less about what they believe as long as they don't expect to have Jewish land and to erect monuments to their deity.

In my opinion it is contrary to basic Jewish beliefs, which hold that the Jewish nation is the chosen nation to represent Hashem in this world. We were redeemed from Mount Sinai and brought down the 10 commandments which are upheld even among non-Jews. Our prophets envisioned a future where Jews will be redeemed from the ill-will of the nations. All this other belief is nonsense from a Jewish perspective... In my 'humble' opinion.

[Israel Chai]

Why post that stuff? I can care less about what they believe as long as they don't expect to have Jewish land and to erect monuments to their deity.

In my opinion it is contrary to basic Jewish beliefs, which hold that the Jewish nation is the chosen nation to represent Hashem in this world. We were redeemed from Mount Sinai and brought down the 10 commandments which are upheld even among non-Jews. Our prophets envisioned a future where Jews will be redeemed from the ill-will of the nations. All this other belief is nonsense from a Jewish perspective... In my 'humble' opinion.

That goes without saying. The question in halacha is: Bahai: they must go, or they can stay?

[Binyamin Yisrael]

Why post that stuff? I can care less about what they believe as long as they don't expect to have Jewish land and to erect monuments to their deity.

They don't pray to the Bab. People accuse Jews of praying to tzadikim. The Bab isn't their deity. It's not like Christianity that prays to a dead Jew.

Maybe the issue is how can they take over a whole slope of a mountain in the Land of Israel when the Land belongs to the Jews. I remember my dad asked how did they take over all the mountain and they said it belongs to everyone. I guess they see themselves as a universal religion. In that way it seems like a bunch of Commies. Their House of Justice could be seen by some as a UN.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

But do they wear mc hammer pants is the pertinent question.  I think that may be actually be the Druze.

Bahai people accept muhammad as a supposed prophet (they just differ from islam in that they think other so-called prophets came after him and added more - muzzies of course want to kill them for this) so there is only so much compliment one could give them.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

They don't want to kill infidels though so they are basically harmless. I asked one of them how could they accept Mohammad if he said to kill all Non-Muslims so he said the Koran also speaks of love. I guess they pick and choose whatever they want from all the religions. If they accept Hindu and Buddhist prophets but reject the idolatry associated with it, I guess they do the same with Islam and reject the murder and theft associated with it. If JTF can be friends with Christians, there is no reason to be against the Bahais. Both the Bahais and Christianity have false prophets. The Bahais don't have idolatry so in that case they are above Christians. Also, historically Christians have done more harm to Jews than Bahais. I don't think any Bahai has ever done anything to harm the Jewish People. They are a minority among wherever they live just as Jews are minorities outside of Israel. The Bahais don't have a country so they don't bother anyone.

[Israel Chai]

OK so harmless and not idolatrous. That basically answers the question. So long as they don't start "teaching" for the purpose of converting or teaching to tell us their "prophesies", we can live together and it looks 100% kosher.

And they did a pretty good job with the mountain, I'll give them that.