A Non Jewish person asked me these questions. What should I answer?

[fibrogirl]

I was asked by a non Jewish person a few questions about Judaism and I  seem paralysed to answer.
I am worrid I will make a mess of it because I really want to portray Judaism in a positive light.
People here seem more knowledgable than me with my very secular background and life, yet on forums I seem to be bombarded with questions from Non Jews.

They asked
"Do the Jews believe that being the "chosen" people brings other obligations apart from following that 613 commands?"

"I noticed that some of the commandsments seem to be only extend to other Jews such as "Lev. 19:14 — Not to curse any upstanding Jew" or "Lev. 19:17 — Not to hate fellow Jews". Would it be okay to curse and hate us non Jews then?"

How do I answer these questions, particularly question no.2?
Thanks

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Ask Chaim on Ask JTF



- to #2. No we shouldn't fight against any non-Jew just for being non-Jewish. Nor hate them. We SHOULD fight against evil non-Jews and curse them just like we should also fight against evil Jews and curse them.

[fibrogirl]

Thanks Tag Mehir.

I asked Chaim question 2. because that is the one that interested me the most. I can't ask both.

If anyone has any idea on question 1 then let me know. - Are we supposed to be a light onto nations on top of keeping those 613 commandment?
Or is the ideal just keeping those 613 commandments?

[muman613]

firbrogirl,

This is a very common topic among antisemites and thus there is a complex answer.

Indeed we consider ourselves the 'chosen nation' because Hashem calls us by this name. But we must ask what it means to be 'chosen' and when we read the Torah we realize that rather than being chosen the fact of the matter is that the Jewish people chose G-d, Blessed is He, to be our master and leader.

When Hashem wanted to give us the Ten Commandments he actually presented it to the nations before us, and they all had complaints about particular commands (thou shalt not murder did not sit well with the arabs, thou shalt not steal did not sit well with the edomites, etc.) But when Hashem gave Moses the Ten Commandments at Sinai the Jewish people said 'Na'ase Ve Nishmah' we will listen and we will do... Also our father Abraham sought out Hashem and became very close to him despite his families involvement with the idolatrous practices of his time.

We are simultaneously 'Chosen' and the ones who Chose Hashem. We are not better than the nations and each nation is loved by Hashem for their own particular involvement with the evolving process of history. I must go now but will continue this shortly...

[muman613]

One of Chabad's rabbis has addressed the question of 'chosen' people...

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/160993/jewish/Are-the-Jews-the-Chosen-People.htm

Question:

I have long been uncomfortable with the concept of the "Chosen People". To suggest that as Jews we are somehow closer to G-d than all other nations smacks of arrogance, elitism, and racial prejudice. How is that any different to anti-Semitism?

Sincerely,
Margaret

Answer:

Dear Margaret,

That is a fantastic question -- a question that could only come from someone who is chosen. Allow me to explain.

In the Jewish understanding, chosenness leads not to arrogance, but rather to humility. If it were some human king that chose us to be his special people, then your assumption would be correct -- we would become elitists. When a mortal power shows favoritism towards a subject, that subject will become more arrogant as a result -- the closer you are to the king, the more significant you are, and the more significant you are the higher respect you feel you deserve.

But we were chosen by G-d. And the closer you are to G-d, the more you sense your insignificance. While being buddy-buddy with a human leader inflates your ego, a relationship with G-d bursts your selfish bubble. Because G-d is an infinite being, and all delusions of petty self-importance fall away when you stand before infinity. Being close with G-d demands introspection and self-improvement, not smugness.

This is the idea of the Chosen People -- a nation of individuals who have been given the opportunity to sense G-d's closeness, hear His truth and relay his message to the world. All agree that it was the Jews that introduced the world to monotheism and a system of ethics and morals that has shaped the modern view of life and its purpose. And it is the survival of Judaism to this day that attests to the eternal value of this system.

To say that this is ethnocentric is absurd for one simple reason: anyone from any ethnic background can convert to Judaism and become chosen. Jewish chosenness is not a gene, it is a state of the soul. Anyone wishing to take it upon themselves is welcome -- as long as they are ready to have their bubble burst.

So the arrogant person is not acting chosen. The true test of chosenness is how humble you are. You, Margaret, have passed this test with flying colors. Your humility is so deep, it doesn't allow you to accept that you are chosen. While most other religious groups are quite comfortable claiming that they are the best, we Jews will do anything to say that we are nothing special. Now that's what I call a Chosen People!

[muman613]

http://www.simpletoremember.com/faqs/The_Jewish_Nation.htm

1.      Are not all men equal? Does not the Chosen People idea contradict this? Why if the Torah is supposed to be a moral code, was it only given to the Jews? Don't we want all people to be good?   (top)

"How odd of G-d to choose the Jews.
It's not so odd, the Jews chose G-d."

 
     Judaism would prefer that there be no distinctions. In the ideal, had the first Man and Woman not transgressed, there would not have been any Jew or non-Jew - just man[1]. After the sin, the situation was still open for anyone to choose a life of core spirituality and to become the Jewish people[2].  Despite the passing of tens of generations, only Abraham and his descendents chose to dedicate themselves to this task. G-d did not simply accept their role as future recipients of the Torah. Again and again, He tested Abraham[3]. Again and again, He tested Yitzchak and then Yaakov and his children and their children[4]. The nation had to pass the horrific and miserable experience of Egypt, but still they stood fast, ready to commit themselves to G-d’s Torah. Therefore it was only because the Jews consistently and doggedly chose G-d, that G-d ultimately chose the Jews[5].

     Even at this late stage, other nations could also have accepted the Torah. The Torah was in fact offered to everyone. But when even now only the Jews responded, the nations of the world could no longer, as a nation, accept the Torah. Still, any individual non-Jew is welcome to convert and become a part of the Torah-keeping nation. Non-Jews have, in fact,  more spiritual opportunities than Jews. Non-Jews can remain as they are and by keeping the Seven Noachide Laws, get the World to Come. These laws are very basic laws of minimum civilized standards like killing, stealing and not being cruel to animals. Or, if they so desire, they can commit to a higher standard of spirituality by converting. Jews have no such choice. Their only choice is how they will respond to the incontrovertible fact of their Jewishness.

2.      What does it mean to be chosen? Chosen for what?   (top)

     G-d chose us for special duties not privileges[6], because we showed a willingness to accept those duties, which the rest of the world rejected. These responsibilities involve not only a more demanding level of spiritual and moral standards, but also include caring for the broader spiritual fulfillment of the world and all its people[7]. The Jews did not accept the Torah only for themselves, but on behalf of the whole world. Nor have we ever tried to get anyone else to take over our responsibilities.


     The Jews have not had a privileged history in the normal sense of the word. On the contrary, being Jewish means being judged by a stricter standard than non-Jews[8] and suffering the long history of anti-Semitism that we have. Even the gift of the land of Israel was conditional on the highest commitment to G-d and His Torah. And the land that was given was small enough. That we have survived in defiance of any sociological explanation, is testimony to the fact that G-d wants us to continue serving the role that we have[9].

[muman613]

From our Talmudic teachings we can learn why the nations rejected the Torah... This teaching actually is from this coming Shabbats Torah reading of Vaetchanan where the Ten Commandments are reviewed by Moses and the nation...


http://www.tfdixie.com/parshat/vaetchanan/004.htm

CLOUDED VISION
by Yaacov Cohen     
Torah from Dixie Staff Writer   

In this week's Torah portion Moses reviews the Ten Commandments with the Children of Israel, repeating those unforgettable words which comprise the foundation of Judaism.

In this week's Torah portion Moses reviews the Ten Commandments with the Children of Israel, repeating those unforgettable words which comprise the foundation of Judaism. The Talmud (Tractate Kiddushin 31a) teaches how the gentiles reacted when they heard the Ten Commandments which Hashem had given to the Jewish people. When told about the first few commandments (I am Hashem your G-d. . .You shall not have any gods besides me. . .You shall not take the Name of Hashem in vain. . .Safeguard the Shabbat day to sanctify it) their initial reaction was that Hashem was only concerned with His own honor, and they therefore dismissed the Torah as being irrelevant. However, upon hearing the fifth commandment, "Honor your father and your mother," they realized their mistake and acknowledged the importance of the Ten Commandments. Rashi, the fundamental 11th century commentator on the Torah, explains what caused them to change their perspective. When they came to the fifth commandment they reasoned, "If we are commanded to honor our parents, how much more so must we honor Hashem, for He was the one who brought us into being, and our life and death are in His hands."

It is obvious from their response that the nations of the world knew of and believed in Hashem, because otherwise they could not have spoken about Hashem being the one in charge of life and death as described by Rashi. How then could it be that they rejected the commandments in the first place? How could they have possibly believed that it was Hashem who created them and is responsible for their well-being, while at the same time reject His laws?

We see from here the catastrophic effects of having a negiah -- a bias or preconceived idea. The evil inclination within them convinced the nations of the world to reject the commandments. Because of the negiah embodied deep within their souls that wanted to have freedom from outside demands and responsibilities, they were able to pervert the true understanding of Hashem's laws, and in the process perceive Hashem as giving the commandments for His own honor and glory.

What was it about the fifth commandment, though, that allowed them to see the truth through their debilitating biases and twisted logic?

Honoring one's parents is a logical mitzvah. All of the nations of the world appreciated the importance of it. Once they had heard that law, one which they could easily understand, they were able to expand upon its value and gain a greater belief in Hashem. Because of this, they were able to overcome their previous biases, and through the logic described by Rashi, comprehend the concept expressed by the first few commandments.

The Talmud is teaching us a very valuable insight into how we can gain a better recognition of Hashem and of His mitzvot. When we are faced with circumstances which test our emunah (faith), or by a mitzvah which we don't quite understand, the best thing we can do is to try to think about a similar situation or an easier more practical and understandable mitzvah. By applying the knowledge of that more intelligible mitzvah or situation to a difficult and enigmatic incident, we can gain a greater belief and trust in Hashem. Through this, we will be able to gain a better insight into the more difficult concepts and puzzling mitzvot, and thereby reach our utmost potential in developing our faith in Hashem.

[muman613]

From http://www.simpletoremember.com/faqs/The_Jewish_Nation.htm

5.      How do we explain discriminatory laws like interest, Loshon Horo (negative speech about another person) and returning a lost object which apply to Jews and not to non-Jews?   (top)

     There are two categories of discriminatory laws. One set of laws is designed to keep us separate from the nations of the world. For example, the laws of kashrus, including יין נסך prevent social contact from becoming overly intimate, while the law against intermarriage keeps us intact as a nation. The whole world has an interest in keeping the identity of the Jews intact. It would be a tragedy for all if this nation, which has made such a disproportionate contribution to the world, would no longer be around to continue its phenomenally productive and creative input in advancing civilization.

     A second group of laws, however, seems to be more problematic. These are laws which seem to unfairly discriminate against the non-Jew, such as the laws of interest[26], loshon hora (negative speech about another person) and hashavas aveida (returning a lost object) [27]. If we look closely, we will see that a common thread underlies all these laws. All represent exceptional standards of behavior not demanded or even expected by the broader society. If a mother were to buy her child an ice cream, we would not expect all the kids in the neighborhood crying foul that she hadn’t bought each and every one of them an ice cream as well. It is expected that a mother will set a higher standard of care and concern for her own children. (Of course there is a certain standard by which she should conduct herself toward those who are not her members of her family as well.)

     So too with the Jewish people. We are entitled to, no we ought to set a higher standard amongst our family members, our fellow Jews, than we do with the rest of the world. Let us look at some of the specific examples.

     Interest is an essential component of a modern economy. If there would be no interest, people would find it very difficult to find money to borrow and business ventures would dry up. Economies would stagnate and, with growing populations, there would be increasing unemployment and even worse. G-d wants us to take and give interest. He created interest as a part of the inexorable laws of economics. But he asked us to set a higher standard amongst our family members.

     So too with Loshon Hora (negative speech about another person). The American Supreme Court upholds the right of people to talk Loshon Hora as a constitutional right. Millions of people would be out of a job if Loshon Hora laws were upheld – the entire newspaper industry, talk show hosts and many others. People who first become exposed to these laws comment that they never realized how much of their day was spent talking Loshon Hora. But HaShem (G-d) in His wisdom demanded that the Jews keep a higher standard amongst family members. (In fact, we are urged not to talk Loshon Hora against non-Jews as well. For here the logic we applied in interest, that Loshon Hora might actually be good for the world, surely does not apply.)

     Similarly, Hashavas Aveida (returning a lost object). Certainly, many countries have laws requiring that if one finds a wallet in the street that one hand it in. But the laws of Hashavas Aveida demand much more of us than that. They require that we look after the object, which, if it is an animal, mean feeding it and working out what, in the long-term, are in the best financial interests of the owner. HaShavas Aveida laws tell us to run around and put up signs in the local synagogues and sometimes to hold onto an object for years. No country has laws that come even close to this exulted standard. G-d says again, “For family members, I expect you to go the extra mile.” Some even regard Noachide observant non-Jews as being family members in this regard[28].

     Jews are expected to be totally honest in their dealings with non-Jews, to pay their taxes, to give charity to non-Jewish causes, to look after the non-Jew (Ger Toshav) who settles in Israel[29] and to make a positive contribution to their broader society. But Jews are expected to do even more than that for their fellow Jew. This is completely understandable; no – it is even it be expected.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Thanks Tag Mehir.

I asked Chaim question 2. because that is the one that interested me the most. I can't ask both.

If anyone has any idea on question 1 then let me know. - Are we supposed to be a light onto nations on top of keeping those 613 commandment?
Or is the ideal just keeping those 613 commandments?

 (maybe someone answered below I didn't read it at least yet but)

Keeping the Commandments INCLUDES being a light to the nations of the world. It is also a positive commandment to influence (when possible) both Jews who aren't observant and the non-Jews as well to get closer to G-D and His ideals and ways. To Know Him, to have Yirah ("fear" or Awe) of Him and to love Him.

[muman613]

RE: the Light unto the nations:


http://www.aish.com/tp/i/oai/48949091.html

Bo (Exodus 10:1-13:16)
Light Unto the Nations
by Rabbi Zev Leff

"The Israelites [also] did as Moses had said. They requested silver and gold articles and clothing from the Egyptians. God made the Egyptians respect the people, and they granted their request. [The Israelites] thus drained Egypt of its wealth." (Exodus 12:35-36)

Prior to the Exodus, God caused the Jews to find favor in the eyes of the Egyptians. The immediate reason for this was so that the Egyptians would readily offer their vessels of gold and silver to the Israelites, in fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham that his descendants would leave their servitude with great wealth. But if that were God's only intention, it would have been sufficient to cause the Egyptians to give over their wealth out of fear of the Israelites.

We must, therefore, seek another explanation for the miracle of the Jews finding favor in the eyes of the Egyptians (see Nachmanides to Exodus 11:3) - i.e., some reason why it made a difference whether the Egyptians loved and respected us or merely feared us.

Throughout our exile we have been mocked, hated and killed by the nations of the world. We have had to strengthen ourselves not to concern ourselves with those who deride us because of our service to God (see Rema to Code of Jewish Law, OC 1:1). There is a danger, however that this state of affairs will be seen as being the way things are meant to be, that we will view the mockery to which we are subjected as an indication of the perfection of our service of God.

The Torah teaches us that the opposite is true:

"Learn and observe [the Torah] for it is your wisdom and understanding in the eyes of the nations, who will hear of all these laws and proclaim that this is truly a great, wise and understanding nation." (Deut. 4:6)

It is clear that the Torah attaches importance to the respect given us by the nations of the world.

The Netziv writes (Ha'amek Davar to Numbers 14:21) that the goal of creation is that God's glory fill the entire earth - i.e., that all human beings recognize Him. As we proclaim twice daily in the Shema, our perception of the oneness of God will only be complete when God, Who is acknowledged now only by the Jewish people, will be the one God recognized by the entire world:

"When God will be King over the whole world, on that day will He be One and His Name one." (Zechariah 14 9)

This acknowledgment of God by the nations of the world is so important that the miracle of the splitting of the Sea was performed in order that "the Egyptians should know that I am God" (Exodus 7:5). Ibn Ezra adds that the Egyptians referred to were those who drowned. Thus the Splitting of the Sea was warranted even for the few seconds of recognition of God by the drowning Egyptians. The World to Come is not limited to Jews; the righteous gentile, who observes the seven Mitzvot incumbent upon him as Divine imperatives, also merits Olam Haba.

We, the Nation of Priests, represent God to the world by our exemplary lifestyle, and imbue the world with knowledge of His existence:

"We are a light unto the nations." (Isaiah 42:6)

The Netziv explains that this function could have been achieved by the Jewish people settling in Israel and inspiring the entire world through an awareness of the miraculous Divine Providence that guides the Jew in his land. We did not merit this. As a consequence, it became necessary to spread the knowledge of God by living among the nations and causing them to witness how we sacrifice ourselves for God's Name. Our survival as a solitary lamb among 70 hungry wolves points to the existence of a Divine Creator, whose Divine Providence guides and protects His nation.

Jewish law consistently exhorts us to act in a way which will effect a sanctification of the Divine Name, and thereby brings us respect as a holy and upright people. We are forbidden to desecrate God's Name by giving non-Jews reason to castigate us for conduct unbefitting a holy nation (see Code of Jewish Law CM 266 regarding returning lost articles to a non-Jew). Sanctification of God's Name is a facet of the Mitzvah of love of God. Maimonides in Sefer HaMitzvos writes that this Mitzvah includes an imperative to call out to all mankind to serve God and acknowledge Him.

The Midrash (Vayikra Rabba 6) says, " 'And he is a witness,' this refers to the Jewish people, as it says, 'You are my witnesses, says God, and I am your Lord...' If you will not testify, you will carry His sin." If you do not relate My existence to the nations, says God, I will exact punishment from you. The nations of the world should ideally function in unison with us to proclaim and acknowledge the Creator.

We bring 70 sacrifices on Sukkot for the benefit of the 70 nations, yet we bring them in descending order to intimate that the nations should decrease. There is no contradiction in this. The need for 70 distinct nations is only a result of the Tower of Babel at which mankind united to deny God. As a consequence, God created divisions among them to thwart this attempt to countermand the purpose of man. The ideal, however, is that mankind should unite in the service of God. As the prophet Zephaniah proclaims:

"Then will I return to the nations a clear language so that they can all call on the Name of God and serve Him in unison." (Zephaniah 3:9)

As God's representatives, we must ultimately command the respect and favor of the nations of the world in order to fill the world with His glory. That occurs, says Rashi, only when we fulfill the Mitzvot properly. A Mitzvah fulfilled properly is Godly and perfect, and can only command respect and admiration. If we fail to perform the Mitzvot properly, however, then we will be considered fools. Derision and mockery will be our lot, for the portion of the Mitzvah improperly performed is not Divine and therefore elicits ridicule that then spreads and encompasses the entire Mitzvah.

The Sages explain that the verse, "All nations of the earth will see that God's Name has been called upon you and will respect and fear you," refers to the Tefillin placed on the head. The Vilna Gaon added that this means not just the Tefillin on the head but the Tefillin in the head - i.e. the internalized intention with which the Mitzvah is performed.

The scorn of the nations of the world is not a sign of our perfection, but rather that something is lacking in our service of God, that we have failed in our role of leading a life of holiness separate from the nations and their lifestyles. The metaphysical law that "Esav hates Yaakov" guards us against the possibility of assimilation and spiritual self-destruction. But when we fulfill our role properly, the entire world will want to share in our service of God.

Prior to our first redemption - the model of the final redemption to come - God brought us favor in the Egyptians' eyes, so that we would not forget this ideal. The Egyptians readily gave us vessels of gold and silver to enhance our service to God in the desert. The clothing they gave us represented the honor and glory in which they wished to garb us. And so it will be in the final redemption.

May we merit, through our meticulous performance of the Mitzvot, the respect, honor, and admiration of the entire world, rather than the mockery and abuse that is our current lot. Then all nations will follow our lead in serving God and bringing the world to perfection.

[fibrogirl]

Thank you everyone and especially Muman.

I will try to take that all and summarise it for the person.

I was asked those questions on a conservative British internal politics forum.  It was supposed to have nothing to do with Israel.  During the Gaza war those questions like those sprung up. It is weird the way that war had an effect on people. 

We are seeing the true colours of Britain and Europe come out.
Moshe Feiglin once said that many non Jews are fascinated by us and I see that he is right.

Here in Israel I get the feeling that the media elites only half understand how badly Israel is portrayed.  They still have the Oslo mindset, even if it is less strong than 10 years ago.

[edu]

There is an aspect of a Jew being chosen not related to our obligation to fulfill the 613 commandments which a gentile does not have.
Ramchal (Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzatto) in Daat Tevunote translated into English by Feldheim publishers as "The Knowing Heart".
Ramchal explains in theory 2 people could do the same exact action and for one it will be a mitzva and another a sin.
A Cohen if he eats the parts allocated to a Cohen from a sacrifice, will be performing a mitzva. A non-Cohen (even of Jewish descent if this is not clear to you)  can do the very same act and for him it is a sin.
That is because the Cohen has been infused with a special type of holiness that when connected with specific actions such as eating from the parts of a sacrifice allocated to the Cohen elevates himself and elevates the world. When a non-Cohen who lacks this innate holiness does the act it damages himself and the world.
Ramchal also says that 2 people who are both obligated to do the same commandment can have different effects on the world based on their holiness.
Thousands of Jews who are not so holy can learn Torah and you might not notice any visible change in nature taking place. However, Yonatan Ben Uziel who had developed himself to a high level of holiness, when he learned Torah, the Talmud says any bird that flew over his head at that time was burnt up. Ramchal understands this is due to the combination of the mitzva of learning Torah together with his awesome holiness, which caused visible changes in the natural world.
Israel as a whole at Mount Sinai even before Moses went up the Mountain to receive the Torah from G-d was infused with a special holiness not given to other nations. So because of their nature when they do commandments it both helps themselves and elevates the entire world.
Non-Jews even if they do the commandments - even for the many commandments where there is no prohibition against a non-Jew performing them, nevertheless, because they lack the same innate holiness, their good deeds will not have the same great impact either on themselves or on the world.
True they might get extra-credit on a personal level for going beyond the call of duty in this world or in the world to come, but it will be on a lower level and won't have the strong impact on the world in the same way that a Jews deeds have impact on the world.
There are additional implications of the Jews being the Chosen People, but I have given a sufficient answer for a simple internet forum.

[edu]

As far as hating people is concerned using the Koren Translation to Psalms Tehillim chapte 139 I will quote

Do I not hate O L-rd, those who hate thee? and do I not strive with those who rise up aginst thee?
I hate them with the utmost hatred: I count them as my enemies.

This verse applies both to those of Jewish Descent or non-Jewish Descent who hate the L-rd.

[muman613]

Interesting point edu and I agree that a Jew has a much greater potential for spiritual and material greatness. It is a potential which has both a positive and negative aspect. Indeed we have much greater responsibility in this world with all the mitzvot required of us, and our responsibility is both to our Jewish people and also a responsibility to the world (not our enemies, but the nations which are not preventing us from doing what we have to).

[muman613]

As far as hating people is concerned using the Koren Translation to Psalms Tehillim chapte 139 I will quoteThis verse applies both to those of Jewish Descent or non-Jewish Descent who hate the L-rd.

But edu, there are varying levels of hatred. The Torah is clear that we are not to hate our brother in our heart (rather to rebuke him), to not bear a grudge, and to unload the donkey of our 'enemy'. These laws are halacha, and are enumerated among the 613 commandments. The psalm you quoted is not halacha but rather a wisdom which must be considered in context.

Surely those who hate Hashem, the Holy one blessed is he, hate the Jewish people. And hating the mortal enemy of the Jewish people is a mitzvah (remember the commandment of not forgetting what Amalek did).

So my point is that the Torah implies two kinds of enemies. A) a person who we perceive has done wrong to us personally, either insulting us or speaking badly about us. And B) a national enemy who hates the Jewish people and our G-d. The Torah suggests we should not hate the A category, and we should hate the B category.

“Do not hate your brother in your heart, you will surely rebuke a member of your people, and you will not bear sin upon him.” Kedoshim 19:17

"If you chance upon your enemy's ox or his donkey going astray, you shall surely bring it back to him. If you see the donkey of one whom you hate lying under its burden, you shall refrain from leaving him [to bear the burden]; you shall help him to lift it up." (Shmot 23:4-5)

“Do not take revenge and do not bear a grudge against a member of your people.. ” Kedoshim, 19:18.

"You shall not curse the deaf nor place a stumbling block before the blind; you shall fear your God - I am your Lord."  (Leviticus 19:14)
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/961942/jewish/Negative-Commandment-317.htm

[kyel]

Ask Chaim on Ask JTF



- to #2. No we shouldn't fight against any non-Jew just for being non-Jewish. Nor hate them. We SHOULD fight against evil non-Jews and curse them just like we should also fight against evil Jews and curse them.

It is not good to just flat out curse someone, especially when you do it so often it becomes a habit, and then the curse has no meaning because you use it like a normal expression of speech. It is more righteous to pray that the wicked change their ways, or having faith that Hashem will bring justice. This can be seen many times throughout the Talmud and written Torah. (For example David and Yoav ben Tzeruya). Also it is good to keep in mind that humans have a limited perception of people, while Hashem is able to see the whole picture when it comes to judgement of someone.

http://vbm-torah.org/archive/shmuel/65shmuel.htm


"R. Yehuda said in the name of Rav: All the curses wherewith David cursed Yoav were fulfilled in David's own descendants.  [It is written:] "Let there not fail from the house of Yoav one that has an issue, or that is a leper, or that leans on a staff, or that falls by the sword, or that lacks bread" (v. 29) – "He that has an issue" [was fulfilled] in Rechov'am… "A leper" – Uziyahu… "He that leans on a staff" — Asa… "He that falls by the sword" — Yoshiyahu… "That lacks bread" — Yekhonya… R. Yehuda said in the name of Rav: Thus people say: Let yourself be cursed rather than curse [another].[2] (Sanhedrin 48b-49a)"

[edu]

quote from muman613

But edu, there are varying levels of hatred. The Torah is clear that we are not to hate our brother in our heart (rather to rebuke him), to not bear a grudge, and to unload the donkey of our 'enemy'. These laws are halacha, and are enumerated among the 613 commandments. The psalm you quoted is not halacha but rather a wisdom which must be considered in context.

The Psalm I quoted is halacha and brought by Mishna Brurah's Be'ur Halacha to Siman 1 beginning with the words V'lo Yitbayesh
Here is a rough translation :

   

"But if he is standing in a place that has Apikorsim (heretics) that rise up against the Torah and wish to enact some regulations in the matters of the city, and by means of this they will bring the people to transgress the will of G-d; and he opened in peace, and his words were not obeyed. In such a situation the Beit Yosef did not speak of at all. And it is a mitzvah to hate them and quarrel with them and nullify their plotting with all that he has the ability to do. And King David, peace be unto him said, '' Do I not hate, Hashem, those that hate you and with those that rise up against you , I shall quarrel ! I hate them with an utmost hatred: I count them as my enemies''. (Psalms 139:21,22)

See chapter 10 of Ohr Haraayon of Rabbi Meir Kahane for other categories of evil Jews who it is a mitzva to hate.

[muman613]

You must agree that the 'enemy' in this is not the enemy of the commandments I posted above. Again there are two levels of enemy, A) The ENEMY of the Jewish people who we must hate, and B) A personal enemy who we must NOT hate...

I suspect the original poster in this thread was discussing the (B) type enemy and not the (A) type.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Anyone ever wonder if we hate to much?

[fibrogirl]

You must agree that the 'enemy' in this is not the enemy of the commandments I posted above. Again there are two levels of enemy, A) The ENEMY of the Jewish people who we must hate, and B) A personal enemy who we must NOT hate...

I suspect the original poster in this thread was discussing the (B) type enemy and not the (A) type.

I was asking if it was O.K to hate non Jews and about the different standard of behaviour between Jews and Gentiles in Judaism.

After my question was answered,    someone took the discussion onto something else: hating national enemies of the Jewish people A) and personal enemies B)
That is fine because I found that even more interesting than my original question.



Yes I occasionally wonder if we hate too much.

[Israel Chai]

I was asked by a non Jewish person a few questions about Judaism and I  seem paralysed to answer.
I am worrid I will make a mess of it because I really want to portray Judaism in a positive light.
People here seem more knowledgable than me with my very secular background and life, yet on forums I seem to be bombarded with questions from Non Jews.

They asked
"Do the Jews believe that being the "chosen" people brings other obligations apart from following that 613 commands?"

"I noticed that some of the commandsments seem to be only extend to other Jews such as "Lev. 19:14 — Not to curse any upstanding Jew" or "Lev. 19:17 — Not to hate fellow Jews". Would it be okay to curse and hate us non Jews then?"

How do I answer these questions, particularly question no.2?
Thanks

1. The question is flawed, and comes from the retard xtian mistranslations of Torah. "Chosen" in the Hebrew means drawn out, in other words, that Hashem "chose" us to be separate from the rest of the world. You are required to follow every law from common sense (you can't dress in your fanciest Zimbabwe clothes in New York, or pee in the rivers in Michigan publicly like everyone does in Venice, or that will make chilul Hashem. Also, the Rabbis expand on our commandments in Talmud, so with that, it's half a life to learn how to fully keep them, so you should be fine with the 613, if you understand all the elements that go into each one. Also, commandments like "you must be holy" are so vast, that there isn't room for much else after the 613.

2. Rabbi Mizrachi answered this. Yes it is permitted to speak lashon hara about goyim, but not Jews. He said (and I'm pretty sure he was speaking about us) that if you start with speaking lashon hara about Arabs and people who deserve it, next thing you'll be speaking lashon hara about the chief Rabbi of Israel, so it's strongly not recommended. Lashon hara isn't a curse or hate, it's saying something true about the person he wouldn't want other to know. Among brothers, telling the neighbor is being a traitor. It is forbidden to be a traitor. If the neighbor is stealing your stuff, and you don't tell your brothers, you are not allowed to remain silent, because that is also being a traitor.

Yes, you are allowed to curse non-Jews that are your enemies. If you curse an innocent person, it's a huge sin, and anyways all the curses you put on others come back to you. So it's extremely not reccomended, as you can see from Torah, all the curses that King David put on his enemies (who were trying to kill him and say that he wasn't king) came back on his sons. You are also allowed to hate non-Jews that are your enemies. Obviously, you have a huge problem we can talk about for days that is bringing huge judgment on you if you hate the innocent, but even with justified hate, the Rabbis teach from Shimshon ha Navie that hate will destroy the person you hate and you yourself, as when he destroyed the temple of the despicable Philistines, he was killed in the fall out. You can see clearly how such hate would have to be allowed, they were our enemies who attacked and enslaved us, and would sacrifice their babies to Baal, so the hate was justified and necessary, but it will cost your life to hold hate, so try in all circumstances not to hold it.

[muman613]

Once again it comes to demonstrate my point. Hashem created all these emotions and all these feelings for a purpose. Kohelet said that there is a time and a purpose for EVERYTHING under heaven, and there is NOTHING NEW under the sun. By the way, Ecclesiasties (Kohelet) is still one of my favorite books of Tanach, and it contains much good wisdom...

So there IS a time to hate, and there IS a time to love, a time for PEACE and a time for WAR... We must not loathe these emotions but just prepare ourselves for expressing the correct emotion at the correct time. Misplaced hatred is what led to the 'baseless hatred' which led to the destruction of the 2nd Temple. The Torah wants us to control this emotion because, as LKZ points out, hatred and anger have the spiritual potential of bringing destruction on us (those whose anger and hatred are misplaced). We must examine our motivations for the hatred, is it truly righteous anger and hatred or is there an element of personal desire to express a hateful idea? Some people are just naturally angry people and they are challenged by the rules which limit the extent of our anger and hatred. Some people are timid and do not have any anger, and they are challenged to display the correct amount of anger when the proper situation arises.